CHALLENGE TO GOD BELIEVERS

[Bill]

A challenge to all God believers.



I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.



I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.



If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and directly
showing it's existence and wishes.



Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS of
self serving men promoting their religions.



Baha'i Sacrid writtings

Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon

The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.

No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.

The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints

The Analects - Confuscianism

The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs

Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries

Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism

Qur'an - Islam

The Tanakh - Jewism

Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism

Nag Hammadi - Gnostics

Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong



If a real God does exist, why does he keep his existence so illusive and
unconfirmed? There are thousands of God beliefs. Which if any are correct?



If man can communicate with the whole world via TV, Telephone, Radio and the
Internet, why doesn't any real God communicate directly with the whole world
and confirm that he is the real God and all the others are fakes? Why does
he permit so many millions of people to follow false Gods?



The objective evidence is that no God created man but quite the contrary,
that man created Gods!

[top gun]

Tell you what if you hang on a few years you'll see everything ...
--
www.geocities.com/days1335

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and directly
showing it's existence and wishes.
Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS of
self serving men promoting their religions.
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
If a real God does exist, why does he keep his existence so illusive and
unconfirmed? There are thousands of God beliefs. Which if any are correct?
If man can communicate with the whole world via TV, Telephone, Radio and
the Internet, why doesn't any real God communicate directly with the whole
world and confirm that he is the real God and all the others are fakes?
Why does he permit so many millions of people to follow false Gods?
The objective evidence is that no God created man but quite the contrary,
that man created Gods!

[AcesLucky]

Post by top gun
Tell you what if you hang on a few years you'll see everything ...

Bill said up top that he wasn't asking for opinions, but tangible
verifiable objective evidence.

Do you have any?

[Horny Cocksucker]

Post by AcesLucky

Post by top gun
Tell you what if you hang on a few years you'll see everything ...

Bill said up top that he wasn't asking for opinions, but tangible
verifiable objective evidence.
Do you have any?

THE EVIDENCE IS IN THE BIBLE. READ THE BIBLE.

[AcesLucky]

Post by Horny Cocksucker

Post by AcesLucky

Post by top gun
Tell you what if you hang on a few years you'll see everything ...

Bill said up top that he wasn't asking for opinions, but tangible
verifiable objective evidence.
Do you have any?

THE EVIDENCE IS IN THE BIBLE. READ THE BIBLE.

What specifically in the Bible gives the "tangible verifiable objective
evidence?"

I presume you've found it? Show us, please.

[Horny Cocksucker]

Post by AcesLucky

Post by Horny Cocksucker

Post by AcesLucky
Do you have any?

THE EVIDENCE IS IN THE BIBLE. READ THE BIBLE.

What specifically in the Bible gives the "tangible verifiable objective
evidence?"
I presume you've found it? Show us, please.

If you don't believe then what are you doing posting to a religious
newsgroup. My friend, the evidence is all around you. Look around you.
God is everywhere. God is love.

[top gun]

anyways some evidence,

telomere's in people's dna dictate people will live for no more than about
120 years, this was set in Genesis 6 ie that was in the bible before people
knew.

there is lots of evidence they should seek it.

Post by Horny Cocksucker

Post by AcesLucky

Post by Horny Cocksucker

Post by AcesLucky
Do you have any?

THE EVIDENCE IS IN THE BIBLE. READ THE BIBLE.

What specifically in the Bible gives the "tangible verifiable objective
evidence?"
I presume you've found it? Show us, please.

If you don't believe then what are you doing posting to a religious
newsgroup. My friend, the evidence is all around you. Look around you.
God is everywhere. God is love.

[Bill]

Post by top gun
anyways some evidence,
telomere's in people's dna dictate people will live for no more than about
120 years, this was set in Genesis 6 ie that was in the bible before
people knew.

And this explains Moses living for 900 years! And during Biblical times the
average
life span was about 30 years.

It is interesting how so called believers make up and interpret things ti
fit their belief system.
How can religious believers be so dishonest!

Post by top gun
there is lots of evidence they should seek it.

Post by Horny Cocksucker

Post by AcesLucky

Post by Horny Cocksucker

Post by AcesLucky
Do you have any?

THE EVIDENCE IS IN THE BIBLE. READ THE BIBLE.

What specifically in the Bible gives the "tangible verifiable objective
evidence?"
I presume you've found it? Show us, please.

If you don't believe then what are you doing posting to a religious
newsgroup. My friend, the evidence is all around you. Look around you.
God is everywhere. God is love.

[AcesLucky]

Post by Horny Cocksucker

Post by AcesLucky

Post by Horny Cocksucker

Post by AcesLucky
Do you have any?

THE EVIDENCE IS IN THE BIBLE. READ THE BIBLE.

What specifically in the Bible gives the "tangible verifiable objective
evidence?"
I presume you've found it? Show us, please.

If you don't believe then what are you doing posting to a religious
newsgroup. My friend, the evidence is all around you. Look around you.
God is everywhere. God is love.

Okay, but, where's the "tangible verifiable objective evidence" you said
was in the Bible?

I know that you're a good person (with a name like that) and you
probably just forgot, but, will you go ahead and answer the question,
please? Thanks.

PS: What part verifies that God is love by my looking around, again? I
missed that one. Thank you Horny Cocksucker.

[Nog]

Post by Horny Cocksucker

Post by AcesLucky

Post by top gun
Tell you what if you hang on a few years you'll see everything ...

Bill said up top that he wasn't asking for opinions, but tangible
verifiable objective evidence.
Do you have any?

THE EVIDENCE IS IN THE BIBLE. READ THE BIBLE.

But the bible was written by retarded sand niggers who knew nothing about
the world. What kind of evidence is that?????

[DianaC]

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and directly
showing it's existence and wishes.
Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS of
self serving men promoting their religions.
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints

That's "the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints", thankyouverymuch.
And didn't you try this on alt atheism? Wazzamatter, you get bored and want
to troll elsewhere?
<snip to end>

[AcesLucky]

Post by DianaC

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and directly
showing it's existence and wishes.
Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS of
self serving men promoting their religions.
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints

That's "the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints", thankyouverymuch.
And didn't you try this on alt atheism? Wazzamatter, you get bored and want
to troll elsewhere?
<snip to end>

Did anybody ever answer his question?

[Pastor Frank]

Post by AcesLucky

Post by DianaC

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and directly
showing it's existence and wishes.
Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS
of self serving men promoting their religions.
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints

That's "the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints",
thankyouverymuch. And didn't you try this on alt atheism? Wazzamatter,
you get bored and want to troll elsewhere?
<snip to end>

Did anybody ever answer his question?

Yes. The god of atheist definition does NOT exist and there is no
tangible evidence that there is such a god.
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and there is lots of
evidence regarding the existence of love. So that settles the matter. See
below

Pastor Frank

1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

[Libertarius]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by AcesLucky

Post by DianaC

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and directly
showing it's existence and wishes.
Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS
of self serving men promoting their religions.
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints

That's "the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints",
thankyouverymuch. And didn't you try this on alt atheism? Wazzamatter,
you get bored and want to troll elsewhere?
<snip to end>

Did anybody ever answer his question?

Yes. The god of atheist definition does NOT exist and there is no
tangible evidence that there is such a god.
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and there is lots of
evidence regarding the existence of love. So that settles the matter. See
below

===>"LOVE" is an EMOTION, which you have made into
YOUR IDOL!
To you "Jesus" being the "son of God" simply means he was
a "love child"!
Definitely NOT the son of the Hebrew deity YHWH!
Correct?

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

your "god of love" did a fine job of murdering children during the tsunami

[Andrew W]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by AcesLucky

Post by DianaC

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE
that your or any other God actually exists.
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and
directly showing it's existence and wishes.
Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS
of self serving men promoting their religions.
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints

That's "the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints",
thankyouverymuch. And didn't you try this on alt atheism? Wazzamatter,
you get bored and want to troll elsewhere?
<snip to end>

Did anybody ever answer his question?

Yes. The god of atheist definition does NOT exist and there is no
tangible evidence that there is such a god.
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and there is lots of
evidence regarding the existence of love. So that settles the matter. See
below
Pastor Frank
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Love is not a single individual, so obviously God is not a single individual
either.
So that invalidates much of what's in the bible, specifically regarding the
judgementalism, vindictiveness and wilfulness.
Thanks for clearing that up.
--
Andrew W.

Ask yourself this question.
Would you still worship God if he didn't offer a reward or threaten hell?
If so then why does a creator feel the need to do such? Has he no confidence
that his own goodness and creating abilities alone will win him love?

Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner

[Jude]

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.

Provide that same type of evidence that God doesn't exist...

The whole SkyGod kind of thing DOES come across to many as just a fairytale.
In fact, it might have started out a tale to explain a faith in the unseen.
ANYbody being honest will recognize that the difficulty is explaining
something which has been revealed and experienced. However, there is no
proof as you have asked, one person to another. There is only a conversion
experience, given by God. God, who for whatever unknowable reason(s),
doesn't just walk the earth. If God walked the earth, zapping this thing
here thing and overcoming this natural scientific power there, blah de blah,
then EVERYBODY would believe and the controversy would end.

I believe wholeheartedly that fundamentalism sets up God to be mocked
because "it" claims that the bible is the inerrant "word of God." Anybody
who does a long and hard research with a TRULY open mind will ultimately
come to the conclusion that the bible runs the whole gambit of complete
absurdities to profound statements of insight into God's love. Such a
thing, however even with the nice parts, is NOT an inerrant work of God.

I came to God through a conversion experience 5 years before unfortunately
being influenced into becoming a fundamentalist. After battling my way out
of THAT fog, I still believe because of my personal experiences and because
of the incredible prayers that God answers. Unlike fundamentalists,
however, I don't claim to have all the answers or really a whole lot of the
answers and it seems obvious that there was never an intention for us to
have all or most of the answers. All I have is my trust in a God unlike the
one of the ancient Jews except that we both believe God is ONE and is Loving
Spirit and not angry human like persona. Somehow, I have been able to hold
on to that trust and, that is something one can't really show or share with
another person.

I'm not looking for an argument, so I would ask that you don't seek to start
one with me. Other than that, what else is there to say because I mean no
harm and am only sharing my experience. No harm, no foul. Good luck in
your life and, believe it or not, if it's meant to be, you'll know one day
what I'm talking about.

[Bill]

This is objective verifiable evidence???

This is only evidence that your beliefs are based on hope and myth!

Post by Jude

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE

that

Post by Bill
your or any other God actually exists.

Provide that same type of evidence that God doesn't exist...
The whole SkyGod kind of thing DOES come across to many as just a fairytale.
In fact, it might have started out a tale to explain a faith in the unseen.
ANYbody being honest will recognize that the difficulty is explaining
something which has been revealed and experienced. However, there is no
proof as you have asked, one person to another. There is only a conversion
experience, given by God. God, who for whatever unknowable reason(s),
doesn't just walk the earth. If God walked the earth, zapping this thing
here thing and overcoming this natural scientific power there, blah de blah,
then EVERYBODY would believe and the controversy would end.
I believe wholeheartedly that fundamentalism sets up God to be mocked
because "it" claims that the bible is the inerrant "word of God." Anybody
who does a long and hard research with a TRULY open mind will ultimately
come to the conclusion that the bible runs the whole gambit of complete
absurdities to profound statements of insight into God's love. Such a
thing, however even with the nice parts, is NOT an inerrant work of God.
I came to God through a conversion experience 5 years before unfortunately
being influenced into becoming a fundamentalist. After battling my way out
of THAT fog, I still believe because of my personal experiences and because
of the incredible prayers that God answers. Unlike fundamentalists,
however, I don't claim to have all the answers or really a whole lot of the
answers and it seems obvious that there was never an intention for us to
have all or most of the answers. All I have is my trust in a God unlike the
one of the ancient Jews except that we both believe God is ONE and is Loving
Spirit and not angry human like persona. Somehow, I have been able to hold
on to that trust and, that is something one can't really show or share with
another person.
I'm not looking for an argument, so I would ask that you don't seek to start
one with me. Other than that, what else is there to say because I mean no
harm and am only sharing my experience. No harm, no foul. Good luck in
your life and, believe it or not, if it's meant to be, you'll know one day
what I'm talking about.

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

so you have absolutely no verifiable proof in other words of the existence
of invisible man in the sky

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Jude

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE
that your or any other God actually exists.

Provide that same type of evidence that God doesn't exist...
The whole SkyGod kind of thing DOES come across to many as just a fairytale.

It IS a fairy tale. Rest assured, that the god(s) of atheist definition
NEVER exist.

Post by Jude
In fact, it might have started out a tale to explain a faith in the unseen.
ANYbody being honest will recognize that the difficulty is explaining
something which has been revealed and experienced. However, there is no
proof as you have asked, one person to another. There is only a conversion
experience, given by God. God, who for whatever unknowable reason(s),
doesn't just walk the earth. If God walked the earth, zapping this thing
here thing and overcoming this natural scientific power there, blah de blah,
then EVERYBODY would believe and the controversy would end.
I believe wholeheartedly that fundamentalism sets up God to be mocked
because "it" claims that the bible is the inerrant "word of God." Anybody
who does a long and hard research with a TRULY open mind will ultimately
come to the conclusion that the bible runs the whole gambit of complete
absurdities to profound statements of insight into God's love. Such a
thing, however even with the nice parts, is NOT an inerrant work of God.
I came to God through a conversion experience 5 years before unfortunately
being influenced into becoming a fundamentalist. After battling my way out
of THAT fog, I still believe because of my personal experiences and because
of the incredible prayers that God answers. Unlike fundamentalists,
however, I don't claim to have all the answers or really a whole lot of the
answers and it seems obvious that there was never an intention for us to
have all or most of the answers. All I have is my trust in a God unlike the
one of the ancient Jews except that we both believe God is ONE and is Loving
Spirit and not angry human like persona. Somehow, I have been able to hold
on to that trust and, that is something one can't really show or share with
another person.
I'm not looking for an argument, so I would ask that you don't seek to start
one with me. Other than that, what else is there to say because I mean no
harm and am only sharing my experience. No harm, no foul. Good luck in
your life and, believe it or not, if it's meant to be, you'll know one day
what I'm talking about.

If you don't want any argument, then why are you attacking
"fundamentalists" of which I am one? The Bible IS God's inerrant words and
like any pile of words, it's their meaning which is inerrant, in this
particular case, the SPIRITUAL meaning, not the scientific or historical or
any other meaning.
So now that you have battled your way out of the fundamentalist "fog"
you are stuck in the liberal "fog" where you have no firm answers and need
to believe in "good luck in your life"?
Sounds like you have quit studying the Bible because it's full of
errors, and you are now adrift hoping the humanist current will move in the
right direction?
For a starter, check your Bible whether your God definition matches the
one of Christ below.

Pastor Frank

"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:
Jesus in Jn:4:24: "GOD IS A SPIRIT, and they that worship him must
worship him in spirit and in truth."
Jesus in John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me,
ye should have known my Father also, and from henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND
HAVE SEEN HIM."
Philip saith unto him: "Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
Jesus saith unto him: "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAS SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER;
and how sayest thou then: Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am
in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak
not of myself, but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."
Jesus in John 12:44-46`Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes
in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees me sees
Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever
believes in me should not abide in darkness."
Jesus in Lk 17:20-21: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of
God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo
there! For, behold, the kingdom of GOD IS WITHIN YOU."
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Acts:17:28: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain
also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

the bible is god's inerrant words?

you mean like when the "supreme being" gave us his all-knowing wisdom like
don't plow with an ox and a donkey together ?

[Jude]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Jude

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE
that your or any other God actually exists.

Provide that same type of evidence that God doesn't exist...
The whole SkyGod kind of thing DOES come across to many as just a fairytale.

It IS a fairy tale. Rest assured, that the god(s) of atheist definition
NEVER exist.

Post by Jude
In fact, it might have started out a tale to explain a faith in the unseen.
ANYbody being honest will recognize that the difficulty is explaining
something which has been revealed and experienced. However, there is no
proof as you have asked, one person to another. There is only a conversion
experience, given by God. God, who for whatever unknowable reason(s),
doesn't just walk the earth. If God walked the earth, zapping this thing
here thing and overcoming this natural scientific power there, blah de blah,
then EVERYBODY would believe and the controversy would end.
I believe wholeheartedly that fundamentalism sets up God to be mocked
because "it" claims that the bible is the inerrant "word of God."

Anybody

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Jude
who does a long and hard research with a TRULY open mind will ultimately
come to the conclusion that the bible runs the whole gambit of complete
absurdities to profound statements of insight into God's love. Such a
thing, however even with the nice parts, is NOT an inerrant work of God.
I came to God through a conversion experience 5 years before

unfortunately

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Jude
being influenced into becoming a fundamentalist. After battling my way out
of THAT fog, I still believe because of my personal experiences and because
of the incredible prayers that God answers. Unlike fundamentalists,
however, I don't claim to have all the answers or really a whole lot of the
answers and it seems obvious that there was never an intention for us to
have all or most of the answers. All I have is my trust in a God unlike the
one of the ancient Jews except that we both believe God is ONE and is Loving
Spirit and not angry human like persona. Somehow, I have been able to hold
on to that trust and, that is something one can't really show or share with
another person.
I'm not looking for an argument, so I would ask that you don't seek to start
one with me. Other than that, what else is there to say because I mean no
harm and am only sharing my experience. No harm, no foul. Good luck in
your life and, believe it or not, if it's meant to be, you'll know one day
what I'm talking about.

If you don't want any argument, then why are you attacking
"fundamentalists" of which I am one?

I said I didn't want to argue someone about the existence of God. IF you
would be of a clear mind, you would have caught that clear meaning in how it
was said.

Sorry you're a fundamentalist.

[Horny Cocksucker]

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and directly
showing it's existence and wishes.
Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS of
self serving men promoting their religions.
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
If a real God does exist, why does he keep his existence so illusive and
unconfirmed? There are thousands of God beliefs. Which if any are correct?
If man can communicate with the whole world via TV, Telephone, Radio and
the Internet, why doesn't any real God communicate directly with the whole
world and confirm that he is the real God and all the others are fakes?
Why does he permit so many millions of people to follow false Gods?
The objective evidence is that no God created man but quite the contrary,
that man created Gods!

READ THE BIBLE AND YE WILL UNDERSTAND :-) But I think it's too late for
you, Bill. I think you are destined for an eternity of buggery with Satan
... who's got a very big dick by the way. Don't worry, when I'm standing by
God, in paradise I may come down to hell (just for the hell of it - no pun
intended) just to have a laugh at your expense and say: "I told you all us
Christians were right all along ... and you never believed in us or the
bible." Moron.

Have a nice day,

The very horny cocksucker.

[Andrew W]

Post by Horny Cocksucker

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.

<snip>

Post by Horny Cocksucker

Post by Bill
The objective evidence is that no God created man but quite the contrary,
that man created Gods!

READ THE BIBLE AND YE WILL UNDERSTAND :-)

What if someone isn't interested in ancient Jewish/biblical history?
Not everyone is.
And what if they've already read the bible and God or Jesus haven't revealed
themselves to them? (which happens to a great many)

Post by Horny Cocksucker
But I think it's too late for you, Bill. I think you are destined for an
eternity of buggery with Satan ... who's got a very big dick by the way.

Obviously you've already seen it.

Post by Horny Cocksucker
Don't worry, when I'm standing by God, in paradise I may come down to hell
(just for the hell of it - no pun intended) just to have a laugh at your
expense and say: "I told you all us Christians were right all along ...
and you never believed in us or the bible." Moron.
Have a nice day,
The very horny cocksucker.

Did the bible god choose that name for you?
--
Andrew W.

Ask yourself this question.
Would you still worship God if he didn't offer a reward or threaten hell?
If so then why does a creator feel the need to do such? Has he no confidence
that his own goodness and creating abilities alone will win him love?

Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner

[Bill]

Post by Horny Cocksucker

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and directly
showing it's existence and wishes.
Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS
of self serving men promoting their religions.
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
If a real God does exist, why does he keep his existence so illusive and
unconfirmed? There are thousands of God beliefs. Which if any are correct?
If man can communicate with the whole world via TV, Telephone, Radio and
the Internet, why doesn't any real God communicate directly with the
whole world and confirm that he is the real God and all the others are
fakes? Why does he permit so many millions of people to follow false
Gods?
The objective evidence is that no God created man but quite the contrary,
that man created Gods!

You are obviouslly unable to read perceptively. My post clearly said; the
Bibles are
- NOT- OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE.

The Bibles were written by self centered men and hand copied dozens of times
over 2,000 years ago.
There is NO objective evidence to support their authenticity or accuracy.
The Bibles are a mixture of
fiction, myths and legends. They are loaded with impossible and implausable
tales and contradictions.

Post by Horny Cocksucker
READ THE BIBLE AND YE WILL UNDERSTAND :-) But I think it's too late for
you, Bill. I think you are destined for an eternity of buggery with Satan
... who's got a very big dick by the way. Don't worry, when I'm standing
by God, in paradise I may come down to hell (just for the hell of it - no
pun intended) just to have a laugh at your expense and say: "I told you
all us Christians were right all along ... and you never believed in us or
the bible." Moron.
Have a nice day,
The very horny cocksucker.

You sure are a nasty minded Christian. Is your nastiness part of your
religion?
Or do you find it necessary to engage in name calling and vial language
because you lack any
meaningful answers to questions about your religious beliefs?

[Midjis]

Post by Bill
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries

1. Wicca has no specific religious text.

2. Wicca was created in the early-to-mid 20th century by Gerald Gardner.

3. Wicca is a neopagan faith, but not all neopagan faiths are Wicca.

And finally:

4. Neopagan means 'new pagan' - this is representative of the fact that
these religions are a modern (and largely inaccurate) re-imagining of
ancient traditions as they were understood by occultists at the time, not
the ancient traditions themselves. Greece and Rome did not practise
'neopaganism' 'over the centuries'. They practised their own pagan
religions worshipping their own pantheons.

[Midjis]

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective
evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE
that your or any other God actually exists.
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World,
and everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and
directly showing it's existence and wishes.

As to the question itself, maybe I will have a stab at answering it
myself, although I suspect my faith won't make for an answer that'll
satisfy you.

I do not believe that God created everything. I believe that divinity is
a product of What Is. I believe in my gods because they are the
mechanisms and processes by which the universe works, and they are the
life with which it is inhabited, and because I can see them - though I
may not understand them. They do not talk to me, they do not tell me
what to do, they do not ask for worship (though I offer it of my own
accord), and they do not answer prayers. They do not judge me. They
keep me alive, though, and can destroy me on a whim if they so choose.

They simply are.

I have no religious text. I have no desire to see you adopt my religion,
because my religion is by definition suitable only for me - others will
have to draw their own conclusions.

Has any of that helped?

[Horny Cocksucker]

Post by Midjis

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE
that your or any other God actually exists.
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World,
and everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and
directly showing it's existence and wishes.

As to the question itself, maybe I will have a stab at answering it
myself, although I suspect my faith won't make for an answer that'll
satisfy you.
I do not believe that God created everything. I believe that divinity is
a product of What Is.

THEN YOU ARE DAMNED.

Post by Midjis
I believe in my gods because they are the

GODS? THOU SHALT NOT BELIEVE IN FALSE GODS.

Post by Midjis
mechanisms and processes by which the universe works, and they are the
life with which it is inhabited, and because I can see them - though I
may not understand them. They do not talk to me, they do not tell me
what to do, they do not ask for worship (though I offer it of my own
accord), and they do not answer prayers. They do not judge me. They
keep me alive, though, and can destroy me on a whim if they so choose.
They simply are.
I have no religious text. I have no desire to see you adopt my religion,
because my religion is by definition suitable only for me - others will
have to draw their own conclusions.

CHRIST WAS CRUCIFIED FOR OUR SINS AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEN YOU
WON'T GET ETERNAL LIFE. PERIOD.

[Midjis]

Post by Horny Cocksucker
THEN YOU ARE DAMNED.

I certainly am.

Post by Horny Cocksucker
GODS? THOU SHALT NOT BELIEVE IN FALSE GODS.

Indeed I shall not.

Post by Horny Cocksucker
CHRIST WAS CRUCIFIED FOR OUR SINS AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEN
YOU WON'T GET ETERNAL LIFE. PERIOD.

Fortunately, I neither seek it nor want it.

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

so in other words, you have no proof

[Midjis]

Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
so in other words, you have no proof

Yep, that's pretty much it.

Like I said, my answer probably isn't the sort of thing he was looking for.
I suspect he wanted people who'd get all frothy about proving this and
faith in that. I don't do that, I'm afraid.

Besides, when did YOU start wanting proof of the existence of your God?

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

I've asked for proof of this non-existant jerk in the sky before and all the
religious fruitcakes can do is quote bible verses,

they NEVER provide proof. hmmm, amazing isn't it?

[Midjis]

Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
I've asked for proof of this non-existant jerk in the sky before and
all the religious fruitcakes can do is quote bible verses,
they NEVER provide proof. hmmm, amazing isn't it?

Yes, but we've had this discussion before. You're a believer. As I say,
you can't hate something that doesn't exist, yet all your hatred is
directed at their GOD - not at His followers, or at the book, or at the
abuses that're committed in His name.

So why do you ask for proof?

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

I'm posted numerous items of "god's word" here.
such as the famous don't plow with an ox and a donkey together.

I can see how a "supreme being" would want to pass that wisdom on.

[Midjis]

Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
I'm posted numerous items of "god's word" here.
such as the famous don't plow with an ox and a donkey together.
I can see how a "supreme being" would want to pass that wisdom on.

Which doesn't really answer the question I asked, does it?

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

where is the PROOF of this loving, caring invisible jackass in the sky of
yours?

[Midjis]

Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
where is the PROOF of this loving, caring invisible jackass in the sky
of yours?

"When attacked, attack", eh?

He is not 'mine'. I do not believe in Him. Which is why I feel no
compulsion to attack Him, or to prove His existence.

I ask you again: why do YOU hate Him so, if you do not believe He exists?
Why do you attack the god, and not those who claim to follow the god?

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

no attack, once again, where is the PROOF of this loving, caring invisible
jackass in the sky?

[Midjis]

Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
no attack, once again, where is the PROOF of this loving, caring
invisible jackass in the sky?

You claim you make 'no attack', yet even in such a simple, straightforward
and short question as this you just cannot resist throwing in insults
directed at God Himself.

If you are unable to answer the question I asked you, then simply say so.
You will not be the first believer to become bitter and angry with his god.

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

once again, where is the PROOF of this loving, caring
invisible jackass in the sky?

either come up with PHYSICAL PROOF of being in the sky or shut the hell up.
period end of comment

[Midjis]

Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
once again, where is the PROOF of this loving, caring
invisible jackass in the sky?
either come up with PHYSICAL PROOF of being in the sky or shut the
hell up. period end of comment

You're missing the point. Try to think for a moment before you rant.

*I do not believe in the Christian God*.

Got that? I'm not going to provide you the 'proof' you demand, because
if I thought there was proof I'd be a believer myself. I'm not, and I
don't.

You clear on that? I'm NOT the one trying to prove the existence of God.
I don't believe in Him, therefore, as I've said, I don't feel compelled
to prove Him or to attack Him. Why attack what doesn't exist?

So you see (I hope you see), demanding proof from me is pointless.

However, I've asked you a simple question which you seem keen to avoid
addressing:

Why, if you DON'T believe (as implied by your demands for 'proof'), is
your anger in every post I've seen you make directed not at those who
believe in God, but at God Himself?

You can declare 'periods' and 'end of comments' as often as you want, and
as strenuously as you want - but as far as I'm concerned that's only an
avoidance tactic on your part.

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Midjis

Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
where is the PROOF of this loving, caring invisible jackass in the sky
of yours?

"When attacked, attack", eh?
He is not 'mine'. I do not believe in Him. Which is why I feel no
compulsion to attack Him, or to prove His existence.
I ask you again: why do YOU hate Him so, if you do not believe He exists?
Why do you attack the god, and not those who claim to follow the god?

Don't ask the troll questions, you might make him think and break his
head. He surely will blame you for it.

[Midjis]

Post by Pastor Frank
Don't ask the troll questions, you might make him think and break his
head. He surely will blame you for it.

No doubt he would. But it seemed such a simple question...

Oh, well.

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

as usual, from the religious nutcases, more bible nonsense, but NOT A SHRED
OF PROOF

[Midjis]

Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
as usual, from the religious nutcases, more bible nonsense, but NOT A
SHRED OF PROOF

There's no point flailing around trying to avoid answering the question now
- you've answered it already.

[Pastor Frank]

Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
I've asked for proof of this non-existant jerk in the sky before and all
the religious fruitcakes can do is quote bible verses,
they NEVER provide proof. hmmm, amazing isn't it?

There is no such god(s) you dolt. Stop setting up and knocking down
silly strawmen no one believes in anyway. Everyone else apparently has
kill-filed you already, I must be the last one still bothering to answer
you. "yerk in the sky" indeed!!!!!

[fred]

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.

Christians have been upfront for the last 2000+ years that their belief
in Jesus Christ is based on faith. But here is a list of ancient
historians, some of them non-Christian, who referenced someone in their
writings who was possibly the Bible Jesus Christ:

Origen
Tertullian
Cornelius? Tacitus
Suetonius
Flavius Josephus

Post by Bill
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and directly
showing it's existence and wishes.

The problem is not that God is not showing his existance and wishes.
The problem is that people like you are refusing to acknowledge God and
what he has to say, especially where the Scriptures are concerned.

Post by Bill
Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS of
self serving men promoting their religions.

Even lawyers have to negotiate with a judge as to what can and cannot
be admitted as evidence in a trial. Your ploy is evidently to appoint
yourself as judge so you can throw out of your courtroom anything that
can potentially be construed as evidence that Jesus Christ was a real
person.

Post by Bill
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
If a real God does exist, why does he keep his existence so illusive and
unconfirmed? There are thousands of God beliefs. Which if any are correct?

Jesus communicates with people by means of inspirations and convictions
that he impresses on their spiritual hearts. Jesus communicates with
people even more as his Holy Spirit guides them to the truth as they
study the Scriptures. But if you haven't even cracked open a Bible...

Post by Bill
If man can communicate with the whole world via TV, Telephone, Radio and the
Internet, why doesn't any real God communicate directly with the whole world
and confirm that he is the real God and all the others are fakes? Why does
he permit so many millions of people to follow false Gods?

Again, you can ignore God to the extent that you can permananently
desensitize yourself to him.

Post by Bill
The objective evidence is that no God created man but quite the contrary,
that man created Gods!

Regardless that Jesus performed miracles for the people. the Pharisees
refused to accept Jesus' claims that he was the Son of God. The bottom
line is that regardless that you say that you want evidence of God,
you're probably just going to ignore whatever evidence you get anyway.

[Bill]

Post by fred

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.

Christians have been upfront for the last 2000+ years that their belief
in Jesus Christ is based on faith. But here is a list of ancient
historians, some of them non-Christian, who referenced someone in their

Boy now that is real OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE!

That is just evidence that no OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE
exists!

Post by fred
Origen
Tertullian
Cornelius? Tacitus
Suetonius
Flavius Josephus

Post by Bill
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and directly
showing it's existence and wishes.

The problem is not that God is not showing his existance and wishes.
The problem is that people like you are refusing to acknowledge God and
what he has to say, especially where the Scriptures are concerned.

The Bibles are not the word of any Gods. They are just a collection of old
documents
made up largely of nonsense with NO EVIDENCE of their accuracy or
authenticity.

Books of fables are not evidence of the existence of a God.

Post by fred

Post by Bill
Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS of
self serving men promoting their religions.

Even lawyers have to negotiate with a judge as to what can and cannot
be admitted as evidence in a trial. Your ploy is evidently to appoint
yourself as judge so you can throw out of your courtroom anything that
can potentially be construed as evidence that Jesus Christ was a real
person.

I am neither a Judge or a lawyer. I merely stating facts and you are having
difficulty dealing with facts.
I asked for OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE. I explained why the
Bibles and other religious documents to not fit this requirement.

Why don't you just be honest and admit you don't have any evidence.

Post by fred

Post by Bill
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
If a real God does exist, why does he keep his existence so illusive and
unconfirmed? There are thousands of God beliefs. Which if any are correct?

Jesus communicates with people by means of inspirations and convictions
that he impresses on their spiritual hearts. Jesus communicates with
people even more as his Holy Spirit guides them to the truth as they
study the Scriptures. But if you haven't even cracked open a Bible...

What's a "spiritual heart"? Hoe is "inspirations and convictions"
communication.

Buy a good dictionary.

This is a silly cop out or you are seriouslly delusional. I don't know
which.

I was raised in the Catholic faith and since have read the Bibles. Both of
them are
based on myths and fantacy. They are NOT OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE
EVIDENCE that your or any other Gods exist..

Post by fred

Post by Bill
If man can communicate with the whole world via TV, Telephone, Radio and the
Internet, why doesn't any real God communicate directly with the whole world
and confirm that he is the real God and all the others are fakes? Why does
he permit so many millions of people to follow false Gods?

Again, you can ignore God to the extent that you can permananently
desensitize yourself to him.

Just looking for some facts> You quite obviouslly have none.

Post by fred

Post by Bill
The objective evidence is that no God created man but quite the contrary,
that man created Gods!

Regardless that Jesus performed miracles for the people. the Pharisees
refused to accept Jesus' claims that he was the Son of God. The bottom
line is that regardless that you say that you want evidence of God,
you're probably just going to ignore whatever evidence you get anyway.

In other words you are putting up this silly excuse because you are unable
to supply any evidence.

For a so called good Christian you are not being very honest.

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

so you have absolutely no proof in other words.

[The Grim Reaper]

Post by fred

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.

Christians have been upfront for the last 2000+ years that their belief
in Jesus Christ is based on faith. But here is a list of ancient
historians, some of them non-Christian, who referenced someone in their
Origen
Tertullian
Cornelius? Tacitus
Suetonius
Flavius Josephus

And so what if Jesus existed? He could well have existed as a man - a human
being, who bleeds when he has a nail hammered through his hand, who screams
when he is whipped, who collapses when forced to carry a heavy cross.

Post by fred

Post by Bill
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and directly
showing it's existence and wishes.

The problem is not that God is not showing his existance and wishes.
The problem is that people like you are refusing to acknowledge God and
what he has to say, especially where the Scriptures are concerned.

Post by Bill
Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS of
self serving men promoting their religions.

Even lawyers have to negotiate with a judge as to what can and cannot
be admitted as evidence in a trial. Your ploy is evidently to appoint
yourself as judge so you can throw out of your courtroom anything that
can potentially be construed as evidence that Jesus Christ was a real
person.

Post by Bill
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
If a real God does exist, why does he keep his existence so illusive and
unconfirmed? There are thousands of God beliefs. Which if any are correct?

Jesus communicates with people by means of inspirations and convictions
that he impresses on their spiritual hearts. Jesus communicates with
people even more as his Holy Spirit guides them to the truth as they
study the Scriptures. But if you haven't even cracked open a Bible...

And how do you know this is "Jesus" communicating with you and not some
maligne spirit pretending to be Jesus? Or more likely you are imagining
this effect. Remember, human beings are notoriously gullable !!!

Post by fred

Post by Bill
If man can communicate with the whole world via TV, Telephone, Radio and the
Internet, why doesn't any real God communicate directly with the whole world
and confirm that he is the real God and all the others are fakes? Why does
he permit so many millions of people to follow false Gods?

Again, you can ignore God to the extent that you can permananently
desensitize yourself to him.

How can I NOT ignore "God" considering he is invisible and does not speak to
me, idiot.

Post by fred

Post by Bill
The objective evidence is that no God created man but quite the contrary,
that man created Gods!

Regardless that Jesus performed miracles for the people. the Pharisees
refused to accept Jesus' claims that he was the Son of God. The bottom
line is that regardless that you say that you want evidence of God,
you're probably just going to ignore whatever evidence you get anyway.

Moron, Paul Daniels the magician could perform miricles to an untrained eye.
Jesus performing "miricles" to some middle eastern sand-niggers, 2000 years
ago and with little or no education is not my idea of proof of a divine
being. You'll have to do better than that moron.

"In the land of the blind, the one-eyes man is king".

[Midjis]

Post by The Grim Reaper
a human
being, who bleeds when he has a nail hammered through his hand,

Wrist.

Sorry... Pedantic, I know. But it can be a useful fact: it's how you can
tell fake stigmatics.

[RS]

Post by fred

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.

Christians have been upfront for the last 2000+ years that their belief
in Jesus Christ is based on faith. But here is a list of ancient
historians, some of them non-Christian, who referenced someone in their
Origen
Tertullian
Cornelius? Tacitus
Suetonius
Flavius Josephus

fred, you can't think these two jokers have the mental capacity to
understand Origen or Josephus.... Why not toss City of God their way...

When it comes down to it, faith is objective enough to show the existence of
God. If we're wrong and death means oblivion, oh well. If we're right and
death brings eternal life through Christ, then we've nothing to fear. I
believe in the latter, knowing full well that Christ is real. Bill needs
physical and visual proof. Christ answered for that and recognized that for
those without faith, no amount of proof will ever be enough. If they want
objective evidence (notice that they define what is and isn't objective, as
though they have the authority), then they will find it on the day they take
their heart beats their last and they meet their Creator.

-RS

[Midjis]

Post by RS
If we're wrong and death means oblivion, oh well. If we're right and
death brings eternal life through Christ, then we've nothing to fear.

Pascal's Wager, anyone?

But that tactic is flawed in that it only addresses two possibilites:
Jesus is God or there is no God.

What if Jesus was just a man, but God is real, and is really cheesed off at
the fact that people have taken to worshipping a human instead of Him? Or
what if God is really annoyed at the abuses that have been carried out in
His name over the last two thousand years?

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

Christ answered for that and recognized that for

Post by RS
those without faith, no amount of proof will ever be enough.

You're wrong here, christ didn't answer that, some old fools who wrote the
bible said that.

why can religious people NEVER come up with any physical proof? These are
the same kind of people that thought the earth was flat until Columbus, and
god forbid SCIENCE PROVED THEM WRONG.

Logic, something religion is VERY uncomfortable with.

[Bill]

Religious believers cannot tolerate logic or objective evidence. This
immediately
pulls the rug out from under their myths and hallucinations! They are then
like
fish out of water gasping for air.

Post by RS
Christ answered for that and recognized that for

Post by RS
those without faith, no amount of proof will ever be enough.

You're wrong here, christ didn't answer that, some old fools who wrote the
bible said that.
why can religious people NEVER come up with any physical proof? These are
the same kind of people that thought the earth was flat until Columbus,
and god forbid SCIENCE PROVED THEM WRONG.
Logic, something religion is VERY uncomfortable with.

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

Post by Bill
Religious believers cannot tolerate logic or objective evidence. This
immediately
pulls the rug out from under their myths and hallucinations! They are then
like
fish out of water gasping for air.

well, now, they can always come back with some famous bible verses from the
"supreme being", like:
do not plow with an ox and a donkey together.

I for one, sure am glad the "supreme being" took time out of his busy
schedule of making planets, stars, etc. to tell us not to plow with an ox
and a donkey together. thanks oh "supreme being".

[Bill]

Post by RS

Post by fred

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.

Christians have been upfront for the last 2000+ years that their belief
in Jesus Christ is based on faith. But here is a list of ancient
historians, some of them non-Christian, who referenced someone in their
Origen
Tertullian
Cornelius? Tacitus
Suetonius
Flavius Josephus

fred, you can't think these two jokers have the mental capacity to
understand Origen or Josephus.... Why not toss City of God their way...
When it comes down to it, faith is objective enough to show the existence
of God. If we're wrong and death means oblivion, oh well. If we're right
and death brings eternal life through Christ, then we've nothing to fear.

Like most religious believers, your faith is based on fear of death rather
than
objective facts.

Post by RS
I believe in the latter, knowing full well that Christ is real. Bill
needs physical and visual proof. Christ answered for that and recognized
that for those without faith, no amount of proof will ever be enough. If
they want objective evidence (notice that they define what is and isn't
objective, as though they have the authority), then they will find it on
the day they take their heart beats their last and they meet their
Creator.
-RS

You keep dodging the issue. I have stated I only want OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE
TANGIBLE EVIDENCE.

You have supplied NONE. All you have supplied is your unsupported opinions
and
hallucinations.

Faith is not ANY objective evidence. Faith is believing in something WITHOUT
any
objective evidence.

[Pastor Frank]

Post by RS

Post by fred

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.

Christians have been upfront for the last 2000+ years that their belief
in Jesus Christ is based on faith. But here is a list of ancient
historians, some of them non-Christian, who referenced someone in their

fred, you can't think these two jokers have the mental capacity to
understand Origen or Josephus.... Why not toss City of God their way...
When it comes down to it, faith is objective enough to show the existence
of God. If we're wrong and death means oblivion, oh well. If we're right
and death brings eternal life through Christ, then we've nothing to fear.
I believe in the latter, knowing full well that Christ is real. Bill
needs physical and visual proof. Christ answered for that and recognized
that for those without faith, no amount of proof will ever be enough. If
they want objective evidence (notice that they define what is and isn't
objective, as though they have the authority), then they will find it on
the day they take their heart beats their last and they meet their
Creator.

Atheists can rest assured, that they get no arguments from us, that the
god(s) of their definition do indeed not exist. Atheists purposely define
the word "god" in such ridiculous and outlandish fashion, that no one sane
could, nor would believe in any such entity ever.
But then any moron can define the word "god" that way, there is no art
in it, is there?

Pastor Frank

"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:
Jesus in Jn:4:24: "GOD IS A SPIRIT, and they that worship him must
worship him in spirit and in truth."
Jesus in John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me,
ye should have known my Father also, and from henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND
HAVE SEEN HIM."
Philip saith unto him: "Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
Jesus saith unto him: "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAS SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER;
and how sayest thou then: Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am
in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak
not of myself, but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."
Jesus in John 12:44-46`Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes
in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees me sees
Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever
believes in me should not abide in darkness."
Jesus in Lk 17:20-21: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of
God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo
there! For, behold, the kingdom of GOD IS WITHIN YOU."
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Acts:17:28: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain
also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

[Barcelona]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by RS

Post by fred

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.

Christians have been upfront for the last 2000+ years that their belief
in Jesus Christ is based on faith. But here is a list of ancient
historians, some of them non-Christian, who referenced someone in their

fred, you can't think these two jokers have the mental capacity to
understand Origen or Josephus.... Why not toss City of God their way...
When it comes down to it, faith is objective enough to show the existence
of God. If we're wrong and death means oblivion, oh well. If we're
right and death brings eternal life through Christ, then we've nothing to
fear. I believe in the latter, knowing full well that Christ is real.
Bill needs physical and visual proof. Christ answered for that and
recognized that for those without faith, no amount of proof will ever be
enough. If they want objective evidence (notice that they define what is
and isn't objective, as though they have the authority), then they will
find it on the day they take their heart beats their last and they meet
their Creator.

Atheists can rest assured, that they get no arguments from us, that the
god(s) of their definition do indeed not exist. Atheists purposely define
the word "god" in such ridiculous and outlandish fashion, that no one sane
could, nor would believe in any such entity ever.
But then any moron can define the word "god" that way, there is no art
in it, is there?
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Jn:4:24: "GOD IS A SPIRIT, and they that worship him must
worship him in spirit and in truth."

Thanks. You've just explained it. So God is a spirit. In other words: he
doesn't exist (in the real, solid sense). So Christians are actualy
praying/worshipping a spiritual entity. LOL. I think I'll stick to that
which I can see, smell and touch.

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

"Atheists purposely define the word "god" in such ridiculous and outlandish
fashion".


outlandish, yea, we ask for PROOF, yea, real outlandish there, and amazing
enough you religious fruitcakes can NEVER come up with any proof of the
"supreme being".

[xeno]

"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE: Jesus in
Jn:4:24: "GOD IS A SPIRIT, and they that worship him must worship him
in spirit and in truth."

This drivel doesn't prove anything. The alleged quality of the spirit of
yourself doesn't signify that it has anything necessarily to do with any
sort of reality other than itself. It could not have created the world
because you are the product of that world in which you have spirit in.
It's infantile to presume that your spirit has omnipotent powers. In
reality, it is impotent in the face of the vast universe.

[Peace Crusader]

Dear Bill and my Fellowmen,

There are believers and non-believers of a god or gods. To those who
believe in a god, the question is: is the god that they worship the
true God or a false god. Yes, there is one true God and there are
false gods.

How do we know that a god that one worships is the true God or a false
god? Very simple and it is just common logic. The true God can
prophesy and what He prophesies do happen whereas a false god cannot
prophesy. A false god does not know what will happen in the future and
if he ever prophesies, he does not have the power to make the things he
prophesies to happen.

I will tell you what the true God told us and I know they will happen.
Would you believe that human beings will give birth to babies with
three eyes. Yes, three eyes. Has this ever happened? Never have I
seen or read or heard one. Would you also believe that human beings
will give birth to kitten? And cats will give birth to human beings?
And human beings will give birth to fish, alive and moving! Who can
say these things and make them happen? Only the true God. Would you
wait until they happen before you believe that there is God, the true
God?

You may read the recent 19 prophecies of the Holy Spirit in
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/prophecyidx.htm. One of them
is AIDS which He named Gotacural. And mankind will never find a cure
for this disease, He said. It will be an incurable disease. It has
been 25 years since AIDS first appeared and yet no cure has been found
yet. Such a long time for our so-called modern and advanced science
and technology.

The love and peace of the true God be with us now and forever.

With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/

[Midjis]

Post by Peace Crusader
How do we know that a god that one worships is the true God or a false
god? Very simple and it is just common logic. The true God can
prophesy and what He prophesies do happen whereas a false god cannot
prophesy. A false god does not know what will happen in the future and
if he ever prophesies, he does not have the power to make the things he
prophesies to happen.
I will tell you what the true God told us and I know they will happen.
Would you believe that human beings will give birth to babies with
three eyes. Yes, three eyes. Has this ever happened? Never have I
seen or read or heard one. Would you also believe that human beings
will give birth to kitten? And cats will give birth to human beings?
And human beings will give birth to fish, alive and moving! Who can
say these things and make them happen? Only the true God. Would you
wait until they happen before you believe that there is God, the true
God?

Well obviously we HAVE to wait until they happen. If you tell us that the
way to know the TRUE God is that He can prophesy *and make happen what He
prophesies*, then clearly these things have to have happened before we can
know whether or not He has been able to make His prophecies happen.

Any old god can tell us about "humans giving birth to kittens" (although I
must have missed that bit in the Bible, I have to admit) - but if it
doesn't happen (and as far as I'm aware it hasn't), then we can't know if
that god is the 'true' one.

[Peace Crusader]

Dear Midjis and my Fellowmen,

What the Holy Spirit prophesied will happen. Because He is God, the
true God.

There things now that are happening which are unnatural and
unbelievable yet they are true. These are the works of the true God.
Yet we human beings are so engrossed in our self-centered activities
that we don't take notice of these. Or we just don't bother to take
notice?

Take, for example, the crop circles. Who do you think are doing those?
What is the purpose of making those? Now, these circles are not only
appearing in crops but also in trees, in snow, ice, sand.

Will you ever see humans giving birth to kittens? I hope you will
during your lifetime. What the Holy Spirit mentioned to us was about
Noah and the ark and the flood. God told Noah that there would be a
big flood that would come. The flood would put an end to all mankind
because the world was full of their violent deeds. So He asked Noah to
build the ark. Did you know how many years it took before the flood
came? One hundred years! Noah was 500 years old (Genesis 5:32) when
he started to build the ark. He was 600 years old (Genesis 7:6) when
the flood came. Would it take a hundred years before what I shared
with you to come true? Maybe. Since the prophecies came from the true
God, surely they will come true. When? I do not know. Let us just be
prepared always -- prepare our souls for eventual departure from our
earthly bodies.

The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.

With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocitiesl.com/peacecrusader888/

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

amazing how are the men in the bible are 900 years old?
what about their life partners, why do you not hear about any 900 year old
woman in the bible ?

god men the men live to be 900 years old, the women, he killed off at 75.

[Midjis]

Post by Peace Crusader
What the Holy Spirit prophesied will happen. Because He is God, the
true God.

But, with the greatest of respect, this precisely opposes what you said
before. You now say that what is predicted will happen BECAUSE God is
the True God. But your earlier post stated that we can know He is the
True God because His prophecies come true.

So A proves B and B proves A. This is circular reasoning.

Post by Peace Crusader
There things now that are happening which are unnatural and
unbelievable yet they are true.

This is a matter of perception. I see nothing happening in the world
which is unnatural or unbelievable.

Post by Peace Crusader
Yet we human beings are so engrossed in our self-centered activities
that we don't take notice of these. Or we just don't bother to take
notice?

So we might argue that I have not noticed the unbelievable or the
unnatural because I am so engrossed in my own life. Fair comment. So
could you perhaps offer an example of an unbelievable or unnatural event
so that I can pay proper attention to it as a potential proof of the
existence of the Christian God?

Post by Peace Crusader
Take, for example, the crop circles. Who do you think are doing those?
What is the purpose of making those?

Generally speaking, I think it's difficult to argue that anyone other
than humans are responsible for these. They have become quite a popular
art subculture, I believe.

Post by Peace Crusader
Now, these circles are not only
appearing in crops but also in trees, in snow, ice, sand.

Hmmm... I would go so far as to say that circular patterns have been
observed in crops, trees, snow and sand. But given the simplicity (and
therefore the natural frequency) of the circle shape, does it necessarily
follow that circles appearing in each of these things have the same root
cause? I would question the validity of such an assumption.

Post by Peace Crusader
Will you ever see humans giving birth to kittens? I hope you will
during your lifetime.

I see no reason to believe that we will. And this is the problem. You
began by saying that we can know the True God by the fact that His
prophecies manifest. Yet this one has not - and so your argument for the
True God has become "we will know Him when it happens". And if it does
not happen? What then?

Post by Peace Crusader
What the Holy Spirit mentioned to us was about
Noah and the ark and the flood. God told Noah that there would be a
big flood that would come. The flood would put an end to all mankind
because the world was full of their violent deeds. So He asked Noah to
build the ark. Did you know how many years it took before the flood
came? One hundred years! Noah was 500 years old (Genesis 5:32) when
he started to build the ark. He was 600 years old (Genesis 7:6) when
the flood came. Would it take a hundred years before what I shared
with you to come true? Maybe. Since the prophecies came from the true
God, surely they will come true. When? I do not know. Let us just be
prepared always -- prepare our souls for eventual departure from our
earthly bodies.

It is not unreasonable, if you expect the return of your God, to become
and remain prepared. Your holy text does state several times that you
cannot know when He will return. It is a matter of faith for you that He
will one day do so.

But a problem arises when you pin your faith on the fragile foundation of
Old Testament myth, because the subject of your faith then becomes open
to challenge. For example, while you no doubt belief wholeheartedly in
the Great Flood, that killed all but a handful of humans and the animals
they could cram onto their boat, it remains true that there is no
evidence for this story, and much evidence against. For example, the
fossil record shows no indication of all modern animals having their
origin at Ararat, and simple physics (indeed, simple common sense) can
show that the Ark story as related in the OT is just not possible. Of
course, I am aware that to a believer, all things are possible through
God - but realistically this belief requires pre-existing belief. It
cannot serve as proof to instil faith in those not already inclined to
believe.

[Peace Crusader]

Dear Midjis and my Fellowmen,

Post by Peace Crusader
What the Holy Spirit prophesied will happen. Because He is God, the
true God.

But, with the greatest of respect, this precisely opposes what you said

before. You now say that what is predicted will happen BECAUSE God is
the True God. But your earlier post stated that we can know He is the
True God because His prophecies come true.

So A proves B and B proves A. This is circular reasoning.

My reply:
I stated that there are many gods that people worship but there is only
one true God. And we can know this true God by His prophecies. These
prophecies will therefore prove that the true God exists. Who can make
those prophecies to happen unless there is a being to make them happen?


Jesus is God in the flesh. Did He not say that He will send the Holy
Spirit who will be with us forever, who will tell us of things to come?
Who can say such things? Was what Jesus said fulfilled?

Is Jesus a myth? How many witnesses do you need in order to prove that
a man by the name of Jesus ever existed some 2000 years ago? Even a
persecutor of His followers, Saul of Tarsus (later known as Paul),
became a champion, an advocate of Jesus.

Post by Peace Crusader
There things now that are happening which are unnatural and
unbelievable yet they are true.

This is a matter of perception. I see nothing happening in the world
which is unnatural or unbelievable.

Post by Peace Crusader
Yet we human beings are so engrossed in our self-centered activities
that we don't take notice of these. Or we just don't bother to take
notice?

So we might argue that I have not noticed the unbelievable or the
unnatural because I am so engrossed in my own life. Fair comment. So
could you perhaps offer an example of an unbelievable or unnatural
event
so that I can pay proper attention to it as a potential proof of the
existence of the Christian God?

My reply:
Have you not read about babies born with two heads? This happened in
different parts of the world. And not only in humans but in animals as
well. Have you not read about babies born the size of a year old?
This happened in France and in Brazil (on the opposite sides of the
Atlantic Ocean) about a month or two apart. Recently, a big baby was
born which is like one more than six months of age. Have you not read
about the baby born in Florida with two faces on one head? These are
some of these unnatural and unbelievable events. I have several more
which I will upload on the Internet one day. If you encounter any such
events, please upload them in a website on the Internet for people
around the world to know.

Post by Peace Crusader
Will you ever see humans giving birth to kittens? I hope you will
during your lifetime.

I see no reason to believe that we will. And this is the problem. You

began by saying that we can know the True God by the fact that His
prophecies manifest. Yet this one has not - and so your argument for
the
True God has become "we will know Him when it happens". And if it does

not happen? What then?

My reply:
He can do all the prophecies now just to prove that what He prophesies
do happen, if He so wishes. However, I noticed that He is taking His
time, little by little, gradually, giving time for people to comprehend
what are happening and understand that these things cannot just happen
if there is no God. Later, He will show more shocking events, like
humans giving birth to kittens, to live fish, cats giving birth to
human beings, etc. Will we be prepared for these if the simple ones,
we did not notice or comprehend their meaning?

I noticed, for example, that the crop circles that appeared in the 80s
were simple ones. During the past ten years, they have become more
complex, more ornate, geometric patterns. There is even a huge picture
of ET in August of 2002.

Midjis wrote:
It is not unreasonable, if you expect the return of your God, to become

and remain prepared. Your holy text does state several times that you
cannot know when He will return. It is a matter of faith for you that
He
will one day do so.

My reply:
Yes, we expect His return one day so we have to be prepared. And when
He returns, FYI, that will be Judgment Day. However, our life on earth
will surely come to an end. When and where and how? We don't know.
Do you? This is the time when He fetches us, takes our life away which
He lent to us. This is what we call death. So, we have to be prepared
for this eventuality by searching for this true God now, and after
having found Him, to know Him more, love Him, and follow His
commandments. This is faith in Him even though we have not seen Him or
His promised place where He would take us to live with Him forever.

The love and peace of the true God be with us now and forever.

With lvoe, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/

[Midjis]

Post by Peace Crusader
I stated that there are many gods that people worship but there is only
one true God. And we can know this true God by His prophecies. These
prophecies will therefore prove that the true God exists. Who can make
those prophecies to happen unless there is a being to make them happen?

And thus we return to the beginning. We can know God because His
prophecies come true, but they have not yet come true, but we can know
that they will because He is God. And we can know that He is God because
His prophecies come true.

Post by Peace Crusader
Was what Jesus said fulfilled?

This is open to question on two counts: firstly, that Jesus actually said
what he is quoted as having said, and secondly that what he said was
fulfilled. There is no objective evidence to confirm either of these
points, and thus they must remain matters of faith.

Post by Peace Crusader
Is Jesus a myth? How many witnesses do you need in order to prove that
a man by the name of Jesus ever existed some 2000 years ago? Even a
persecutor of His followers, Saul of Tarsus (later known as Paul),
became a champion, an advocate of Jesus.

Personally, I am inclined to believe that there was such a man. However,
I do not believe he was the 'Son of God', or that he was any more or less
divine than you or I.

Post by Peace Crusader
Have you not read about babies born with two heads? This happened in
different parts of the world.

Monozygotic twins that fail to separate as they should during their
foetal development can result in what is colloquially referred to as
'Siamese twins' - twins that are born still fused together. The
connection between them might be as little as a single bone or patch of
tissue, or it may be that only small parts have managed to separate.
Two-headed children can result from this condition, although I am not
aware that any has survived any significant length of time. Attributing
this to God's deliberate will must raise questions of God's morality.

But the key point is that births like this, though rare, are neither
unbelievable or unnatural. Nature is by no means perfect, and things
frequently go wrong.

Post by Peace Crusader
He can do all the prophecies now just to prove that what He prophesies
do happen, if He so wishes. However, I noticed that He is taking His
time, little by little, gradually, giving time for people to comprehend
what are happening and understand that these things cannot just happen
if there is no God. Later, He will show more shocking events, like
humans giving birth to kittens, to live fish, cats giving birth to
human beings, etc. Will we be prepared for these if the simple ones,
we did not notice or comprehend their meaning?

The birth of conjoined children is one thing. A human giving birth to a
kitten would be something else entirely. But even if it should occur, it
would still need to be thoroughly investigated to ensure that it was not
some sort of set-up by people convinced that God's existence can be
proved by such an event.

Post by Peace Crusader
I noticed, for example, that the crop circles that appeared in the 80s
were simple ones. During the past ten years, they have become more
complex, more ornate, geometric patterns. There is even a huge picture
of ET in August of 2002.

This is my favourite crop circle yet, created at Milk Hill, Wiltshire,
UK, in 2001:

Loading Image...

Not the most complex, by any means, but in my view one of the most
aesthetically appealing.

And here's one that can most definitely be put down to human 'artistic
vandalism':

Loading Image...

Dubbed 'The Earth is Missing', this one features, among other places, on
Robert Todd Carroll's "Skeptic's Dictionary" site and book.

Given that so many people now demonstrate so regularly the relative ease
of creating such patterns as these in a surprisingly short time, it seems
superfluous now to look to the paranormal to 'explain' them.

(Actually, it's not fair to call 'Earth is Missing' vandalism. The
'sculptor' in this case takes his art seriously and pays the farmer for
the crops that are knocked down.)

Post by Peace Crusader
However, our life on earth
will surely come to an end. When and where and how? We don't know.
Do you?

As you say, none of us do. Everything comes to an end.

The difference between us is that you believe in an immortal soul that
may or may not spend eternity in the company of an immortal God - whereas
I do not.

[Peace Crusader]

Dear Midjis and my Fellowmen,

Midjis wrote:
And thus we return to the beginning. We can know God because His
prophecies come true, but they have not yet come true, but we can know
that they will because He is God. And we can know that He is God
because
His prophecies come true.

My reply:
A number of prophecies that I cited are in the future. They may not
have happened yet. How about the 19 prophecies that the Holy Spirit
revealed in October 1979 and published in the Philippine Panorama, the
Sunday magazine supplement of the Manila Daily Bulletin, on March 30,
1980? Surely, after more than 25 years, we would have known if they
have happened or not. Take the following prophecies for example:
1. "A disease known as GOTACURAL will occur in epidemic proportion all
over the land, and such diesease will be incurable even by the known
specialists of the medical profession."
This disease is AIDS - Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome. Gotacural
is derived as follows: got = acquired, acur = without cure, al =
suffix meaning characterized by. What disease has come out since 1979
that is incurable and in epidemic proportion all over the world, and is
a disease of humans? Isn't this AIDS? Prophecy fulfilled? Yes. Who
gave the prophecy? The Holy Spirit.
2. "Nameless disease will spread, the cause of which will not be
known, and such diseases will exact a heavy toll of human beings and
work animals."
What are these nameless diseases? Ebola, Mad Cow Disease, Avian or
Bird Flu, Nipa Virus to name a few. Prophecy fulfilled? Yes. Who
gave the prophecy? The Holy Spirit.
3. "Worldwide drought will plague mankind, with the obvious
consequence of plant-and-crop shortage."
Drought has occurred in different parts of the world in recent times.
And we have been blaming it on "global warming", etc. Why is God not
in the equation? Who can make it rain or not make it rain at a certain
area? Who can make the desert bloom? Drought at the moment is
happening here and there. The state of New South Wales in Australia is
89% drought-declared area. Later on, according to the Holy Spirit,
this will become worldwide. Then we will know that we have to ask the
true God to give us the life-saving rain. Prophecy fulfilled? I can
say partly, not completely yet. Who gave the prophecy? The Holy
Spirit.
4. "Disease of the brain or insanity will prevail in 1980, 1981 until
1988, especially in the three superpower countries."
Who killed John Lennon in 1980? A madman. Who tried to kill President
Ronald Reagan in 1981? A madman. Who entered the room of Queen
Elizabeth II at Buckingham Palace? A madman. Who did mass killings in
Dunblane, at Port Arthur in Tasmania, Australia, at a MacDonald's
Restaurant in San Diego, California, etc.? Madmen. Prophecy
fulfilled? Yes. Who gave the prophecy? The Holy Spirit.

Please read the other prophecies in
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/prophecyidx.htm. Tell us
what you think of them. Whether they have happened or not. Who gave
these prophecies? The Holy Spirit. The spirit of Jesus. The true
God.

Do these prophecies not prove to you the existence of the true God?

The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.

With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

Hmmm..seems like a "loving, caring" invisible man in the sky wouldn't keep
trying to MURDER people all of the time with all of these diseases.He
especially likes to MURDER children.

Why did the "loving, caring": god "create" man in the first place if he's
going to turn right around and MURDER them with diseases ?

[Midjis]

Post by Peace Crusader
A number of prophecies that I cited are in the future. They may not
have happened yet. How about the 19 prophecies that the Holy Spirit
revealed in October 1979 and published in the Philippine Panorama, the
Sunday magazine supplement of the Manila Daily Bulletin, on March 30,
1980? Surely, after more than 25 years, we would have known if they

Well, first, this would require an acceptance that the Philippine
Panorama spoke for the Holy Spirit. That in turn would require a pre-
determination to believe. Therefore it does not serve the function.

Post by Peace Crusader
Who gave the prophecy? The Holy Spirit.

Or rather, the Philippine Panorama, if your attribution is correct.

Post by Peace Crusader
2. "Nameless disease will spread, the cause of which will not be
known, and such diseases will exact a heavy toll of human beings and
work animals."
What are these nameless diseases? Ebola, Mad Cow Disease, Avian or
Bird Flu, Nipa Virus to name a few. Prophecy fulfilled? Yes. Who
gave the prophecy? The Holy Spirit.

Hardly a tricky one, though, was it? Far more remarkable would be if the
Holy Spirit had predicted a year in which there were NO diseases
spreading. The fact that you are able to 'name a few' is enough to
render this prediction meaningless.

Post by Peace Crusader
3. "Worldwide drought will plague mankind, with the obvious
consequence of plant-and-crop shortage."
Drought has occurred in different parts of the world in recent times.
And we have been blaming it on "global warming", etc.

No - we have been blaming the increase in global temperature on global
warming (bearing in mind that the term 'global warming' only describes
the observed increase, and does not define the cause).

Drought has been something that 'different parts of the world' have had
to deal with since time immemorial. Again, this is not a 'prediction' -
it is a fact.

Post by Peace Crusader
Who can make it rain or not make it rain at a certain area?

Be careful. Push this point too hard and we would have to ask why God
chooses to withhold rain from humans thus causing them to suffer and die.

Post by Peace Crusader
4. "Disease of the brain or insanity will prevail in 1980, 1981 until
1988, especially in the three superpower countries."
Who killed John Lennon in 1980? A madman. Who tried to kill President
Ronald Reagan in 1981? A madman. Who entered the room of Queen
Elizabeth II at Buckingham Palace? A madman. Who did mass killings in
Dunblane, at Port Arthur in Tasmania, Australia, at a MacDonald's
Restaurant in San Diego, California, etc.? Madmen. Prophecy
fulfilled? Yes. Who gave the prophecy? The Holy Spirit.

Now, you see, when you started out on this one, I was expecting you to
argue for vCJD, or some such brain disease. Instead, you cite various
loons who have cropped up in the world during recent times. And I
imagine that your summary here barely a noticeable fraction of the
nutters who have walked this Earth since the dawn of time. The human
brain is a complex mechanism, and frequently goes wrong. Yet you offer
less than ten examples of 'madmen', and claim that a prophecy has been
fulfilled?

You're undermining your own argument in your selectivity. Why does a
Biblical prediction of 'diseases of the brain' become meaningful because
of the guy who "entered the room of Queen Elizabeth II", when London - or
indeed any major population centre - is probably host to several thousand
people with various mental health problems? And why do you believe that
such conditions are 'prevailing' NOW? Do you not realise that insanity
has been humanity's constant companion from the very beginning?

Post by Peace Crusader
Do these prophecies not prove to you the existence of the true God?

No, of course not. You've said that 'unbelievable and unnatural things'
are happening in the world - but so far you haven't shown me a single
one.

[Peace Crusader]

Dear Midjis and my Fellowmen,

Midjis replied to my question, "Was what Jesus said fulfilled?" as
follows:
This is open to question on two counts: firstly, that Jesus actually
said
what he is quoted as having said, and secondly that what he said was
fulfilled. There is no objective evidence to confirm either of these
points, and thus they must remain matters of faith.

My reply:
Jesus said that He would send the Holy Spirit in John chapters 14, 15
and 16. The Holy Spirit "will teach you everything and make you
remember all that I have told you." (John 14:26). The Holy Spirit
"will speak about me (Jesus)." (John 15:16). The Holy Spirit "will
give me (Jesus) glory, because he will take what I (Jesus) say and tell
it to you." (John 16:14).

Who do we speak to? A spirit, a holy spirit. After 11 years
(1983-1994), I finally accepted that the spirit we talk to is none
other than the spirit of Jesus. This is after I discovered incredible
events in my life which could not have happened if God is not
instrumental to make them happen. You may read these in
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/signs.htm.

This Holy Spirit has been telling us what Jesus said when He was in the
flesh some 2000 years ago and which are in the Bible. And He explained
to us what they mean. The Holy Spirit said them the way Jesus said
them as recorded in the Bible. The Holy Spirit therefore is confirming
that what is in the Bible are the words of Jesus. Have they been
fulfilled? Many have been. Famous among these is the man who will
betray Him -- Judas Iscariot, and the crowing of the cock after Peter
denied Jesus three times that night He was arrested.

The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.

With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

"Holy spirit"? sounds like you need to head to the looney bin.

[Peace Crusader]

Dear Midjis and my Fellowmen,

Post by Peace Crusader
I noticed, for example, that the crop circles that appeared in the 80s
were simple ones. During the past ten years, they have become more
complex, more ornate, geometric patterns. There is even a huge picture
of ET in August of 2002.

Midjis replied:
This is my favourite crop circle yet, created at Milk Hill, Wiltshire,
UK, in 2001:

http://archiv.fgk.org/01/MilkHill-01/20010812MilkHill-1-desktop1.jpg

Not the most complex, by any means, but in my view one of the most
aesthetically appealing.

My reply:
I am glad that you are taking notice of these crop circles. Indeed,
what you cited is "one of the most aesthetically appealing" which
cannot be done by humans in such a short time. Who do you think did
it? Is it a fulfillment of the prophecy of the Holy Spirit in October
1979 of an "unnatural and unbelievable occurrence but nevertheless
true"?

The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.

With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

crop circles, well, hey, they do say that the invisible man in the sky works
in mysterious ways.

seems like a supreme being could come up with a better way to communicate
than crop circles.

LMAO, you people get more idiotic every day.

Hey, hurry, hurry, the shit I took this morning looks like the virgin mary,
it's a sign, hurry, I'll put it up on ebay for you religious morons.

[Midjis]

Post by Peace Crusader
I am glad that you are taking notice of these crop circles. Indeed,
what you cited is "one of the most aesthetically appealing" which
cannot be done by humans in such a short time. Who do you think did
it? Is it a fulfillment of the prophecy of the Holy Spirit in October
1979 of an "unnatural and unbelievable occurrence but nevertheless
true"?

No, of course it's not. It's people messing around. Here's another
great example:

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/passe.present.futur/Articles/image-
cropcircle/2001-chibolton-code.gif

This is a formation that 'appeared' in a field in Chibolton, Hampshire,
UK. Of course it's been embraced by circle believers because it looks
just like a same-format reply to the message sent out by the Arecibo
Telescope as part of the SETI programme. And obviously, aliens wanting
to reply to a message beamed from an enormous facility in Puerto Rico are
going to spell out their reply in a field in Hampshire. Stands to
reason.

A close look at the pattern shows many little in-jokes. Check the little
'Grey' alien standing in for the basic human pattern we originally sent
out. Brilliant work.

As for 'how could they be done in such a short time' - that's the
problem. Firstly, it is possible, with practice, to execute a carefully-
planned circle in a remarkably short space of time.

A notable crop formation by circle group "the Circlemakers"
(www.circlemakers.org) involved a 200-foot flattened circle containing
the Olympic logo and the words 'London 2012' - a formation that took the
Circlemakers seven hours to complete.

But there is another big difficulty with the 'not enough time' argument:
Who actually says these things appear in a short time? Incredibly
complex patterns can be created in under ten hours - but ten hours
doesn't strike me as a particularly short time. Indeed, the only people
who argue that circles couldn't be man-made because they appear in too
short a time seem to be those people who want to believe they're not man-
made.

[Bill]

Post by Peace Crusader
Dear Midjis and my Fellowmen,

Post by Peace Crusader
What the Holy Spirit prophesied will happen. Because He is God, the
true God.

But, with the greatest of respect, this precisely opposes what you said
before. You now say that what is predicted will happen BECAUSE God is
the True God. But your earlier post stated that we can know He is the
True God because His prophecies come true.
So A proves B and B proves A. This is circular reasoning.
I stated that there are many gods that people worship but there is only
one true God. And we can know this true God by His prophecies. These
prophecies will therefore prove that the true God exists. Who can make
those prophecies to happen unless there is a being to make them happen?

What clearly stated prophecies have ocurred and when exactly as stated?

Anyone can state that certian natural occurance will ocurr and eventually
they will be correct.

Why are you avoiding answering the original question? "Do you have OBJECTIVE
VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that your God exists?

Post by Peace Crusader
Jesus is God in the flesh. Did He not say that He will send the Holy
Spirit who will be with us forever, who will tell us of things to come?
Who can say such things? Was what Jesus said fulfilled?
Is Jesus a myth? How many witnesses do you need in order to prove that
a man by the name of Jesus ever existed some 2000 years ago? Even a
persecutor of His followers, Saul of Tarsus (later known as Paul),
became a champion, an advocate of Jesus.

Post by Peace Crusader
There things now that are happening which are unnatural and
unbelievable yet they are true.

This is a matter of perception. I see nothing happening in the world
which is unnatural or unbelievable.

Post by Peace Crusader
Yet we human beings are so engrossed in our self-centered activities
that we don't take notice of these. Or we just don't bother to take
notice?

So we might argue that I have not noticed the unbelievable or the
unnatural because I am so engrossed in my own life. Fair comment. So
could you perhaps offer an example of an unbelievable or unnatural event
so that I can pay proper attention to it as a potential proof of the
existence of the Christian God?
Have you not read about babies born with two heads? This happened in
different parts of the world. And not only in humans but in animals as
well. Have you not read about babies born the size of a year old?
This happened in France and in Brazil (on the opposite sides of the
Atlantic Ocean) about a month or two apart. Recently, a big baby was
born which is like one more than six months of age. Have you not read
about the baby born in Florida with two faces on one head? These are
some of these unnatural and unbelievable events. I have several more
which I will upload on the Internet one day. If you encounter any such
events, please upload them in a website on the Internet for people
around the world to know.

Post by Peace Crusader
Will you ever see humans giving birth to kittens? I hope you will
during your lifetime.

I see no reason to believe that we will. And this is the problem. You
began by saying that we can know the True God by the fact that His
prophecies manifest. Yet this one has not - and so your argument for the
True God has become "we will know Him when it happens". And if it does
not happen? What then?
He can do all the prophecies now just to prove that what He prophesies
do happen, if He so wishes. However, I noticed that He is taking His
time, little by little, gradually, giving time for people to comprehend
what are happening and understand that these things cannot just happen
if there is no God. Later, He will show more shocking events, like
humans giving birth to kittens, to live fish, cats giving birth to
human beings, etc. Will we be prepared for these if the simple ones,
we did not notice or comprehend their meaning?
I noticed, for example, that the crop circles that appeared in the 80s
were simple ones. During the past ten years, they have become more
complex, more ornate, geometric patterns. There is even a huge picture
of ET in August of 2002.
It is not unreasonable, if you expect the return of your God, to become
and remain prepared. Your holy text does state several times that you
cannot know when He will return. It is a matter of faith for you that He
will one day do so.
Yes, we expect His return one day so we have to be prepared. And when
He returns, FYI, that will be Judgment Day. However, our life on earth
will surely come to an end. When and where and how? We don't know.
Do you? This is the time when He fetches us, takes our life away which
He lent to us. This is what we call death. So, we have to be prepared
for this eventuality by searching for this true God now, and after
having found Him, to know Him more, love Him, and follow His
commandments. This is faith in Him even though we have not seen Him or
His promised place where He would take us to live with Him forever.
The love and peace of the true God be with us now and forever.
With lvoe, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/

[Peace Crusader]

Dear Bill and my Fellowmen,

I have cited four of 19 prophecies that the Holy Spirit revealed in
October 1979 and published in the Philippine Panorama, the Sunday
magazine supplement of the Manila Daily Bulletin, on March 30, 1980, in
my response to Midjis. Please give your comments on them and tell us
if they are already fulfilled in your opinion. You may read the
complete 19 prophecies in
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/prophecyidx.htm. You are
welcome to give your comments on them as well.

I am not avoiding answering the original question. I am saying that
God exists and He gives prophecies which are the hallmarks of the true
God. He is a spirit. The Holy Spirit we talk to is a spirit. We
cannot see Him but we can hear and talk to Him. Our conversations, His
sermons, His prayers, His prophecies, are tape recorded. Will the tape
recordings serve as "OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE"(s) that
you are looking for?

The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.

With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

people who hear and talk to invisible non-existant beings are usually
sentenced to the looney bin for life, which is obvioously where you need to
head.

so, once again, you have NO PHYSICAL PROOF.

So, why wasn't this a national news event in October 1979?
Seems like this was just more bullshit ramblings from some
ultra-conservative right-wing jackass back in those days.

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

One of them

Post by Peace Crusader
is AIDS which He named Gotacural. And mankind will never find a cure
for this disease, He said. It will be an incurable disease. It has
been 25 years since AIDS first appeared and yet no cure has been found
yet. Such a long time for our so-called modern and advanced science
and technology.

Yes, it is amazing how the "true" god likes to murder people, he especially
likes to murder children.

[Peace Crusader]

Dear SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim and my Fellowmen,

Do you call that murder if that true God takes away the life of a
person? Does He not have the right to take that life back? Who do you
think gave that life to a person in the first place? You and I will
not be existing in this world if that true God did not give us the
breath of life. Our body is just from the soil and it will go back to
the soil one day. However, the spirit that lives within our earthly
body came from God. That is the breath of life that He breathe into us
so that we can move, we can see, we can talk, we can use the computer,
etc. Can a dead person do these things? Remember, our soul will live
forever, like God, either in Heaven or in Hell. So while that soul is
still in our physical body, we better cleanse it, repent, and know the
true God. When that soul has left the body which we call death, there
is no more chance for that soul to repent. It will just wait for the
sentence to be given on Judgement Day.

Do you know that those people who have AIDS are lucky? Why? Because
they know that they are doomed to die. They know that their stay in
this world will not be long enough. So who do they turn to? To God.
They search for Him. They know that even the specialists of the
medical profession cannot help them recover from the disease.

How about those who feel healthy and wealthy? Is God even in their
vocabulary? One needs maybe a kind of suffering for them to have time
to search for the true God.

How about those who are killed suddenly, like in a suicide bombing?
Are they prepared? Hopefully. If not, do you think God will accept
them if they do not know Him?

The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.

With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

do you actually believe that horseshit you're saying..?


if you want the facts about religion, look below.
Thanks to George Carlin for the below.

When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to
stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated
claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the
greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually
convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches
everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a
special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of
these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning
and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn
and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money!
He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just
can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no
taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good
bullshit story. Holy Shit!

But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when
it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I
tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own
image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I
really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the
more you look around, the more you realize, something is fucked up.

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth,
poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is
definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I
am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a
Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp
with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run
universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time
ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at
these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.

No woman could or would ever fuck things up like this. So, if there is a
God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he's at least
incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn't give a shit. Doesn't give a
shit, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad
results.

So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and
aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some
spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a shit, I decided to look
around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.

And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I
became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at
night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several
reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I
could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see
something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know?
So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat,
light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional
skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not
setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.

Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry,
no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a
special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And
the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell
me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word.
Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don't pray to the sun. Know
why? I wouldn't presume on our friendship. It's not polite.

I've often thought people treat God rather rudely, don't you? Asking
trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and
begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better
job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not
nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.

But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know,
your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for
defecating in a mall. But most of all, you'd really like to fuck that hot
little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the
eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you'd have to. And
I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about
the Divine Plan?

Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave
it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And
for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just
fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing
you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His
plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan.
What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar
prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan?

And here's something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your
prayers aren't answered. What do you say? "Well, it's God's will." "Thy Will
Be Done." Fine, but if it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants
to anyway, why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big
waste of time to me! Couldn't you just skip the praying part and go right to
His Will? It's all very confusing.

So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I
said, I don't pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two
reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts.
Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck
around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was
having trouble with.

For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the
barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that cocksucker out with one visit. It's
amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.

So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I
noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I
now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half
the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same
as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's
foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your
fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just
pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.

And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary
qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want
to look at the Three Little Pigs, that's a good one. Has a nice happy
ending, I'm sure you'll like that. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood,
although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats
the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way. And finally, I've
always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I
like the best? "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put
Humpty Dumpty back together again." That's because there is no Humpty
Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was. In fact, I'm
gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead!
See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody's okay? All right, tell
you what, I'll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he
strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I've got a little cramp in
my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I'm blind. I'm blind, oh, now I'm okay
again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all
very much. Joe Bless You!

[Bill]

Post by Peace Crusader
Dear SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim and my Fellowmen,
Do you call that murder if that true God takes away the life of a
person? Does He not have the right to take that life back? Who do you
think gave that life to a person in the first place?

It is a natural occurence of the process of evolution.

You and I will

Post by Peace Crusader
not be existing in this world if that true God did not give us the
breath of life. Our body is just from the soil and it will go back to
the soil one day. However, the spirit that lives within our earthly
body came from God. That is the breath of life that He breathe into us
so that we can move, we can see, we can talk, we can use the computer,
etc.

This is just your totally unsubstantiated OPINION - NOT a fact.

Can a dead person do these things? Remember, our soul will live

Post by Peace Crusader
forever, like God, either in Heaven or in Hell. So while that soul is
still in our physical body, we better cleanse it, repent, and know the
true God. When that soul has left the body which we call death, there
is no more chance for that soul to repent. It will just wait for the
sentence to be given on Judgement Day.

There is NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE that there is any such thing
as a soul or a life after death. this is just your OPINION!

Post by Peace Crusader
Do you know that those people who have AIDS are lucky? Why? Because
they know that they are doomed to die. They know that their stay in
this world will not be long enough. So who do they turn to? To God.
They search for Him. They know that even the specialists of the
medical profession cannot help them recover from the disease.

Not all AIDS sufferers follow your religious beliefs but people faced with
death do search
for and grasp at possible life vests.

This all just nonsense that proves nothing!

Post by Peace Crusader
How about those who feel healthy and wealthy? Is God even in their
vocabulary? One needs maybe a kind of suffering for them to have time
to search for the true God.
How about those who are killed suddenly, like in a suicide bombing?
Are they prepared? Hopefully. If not, do you think God will accept
them if they do not know Him?
The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.
With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/

P.S. You failed to answer the original question in the post. Is that because
you
don't have an answer?

[Bill]

Post by Peace Crusader
Dear Bill and my Fellowmen,
There are believers and non-believers of a god or gods. To those who
believe in a god, the question is: is the god that they worship the
true God or a false god. Yes, there is one true God and there are
false gods.
How do we know that a god that one worships is the true God or a false
god? Very simple and it is just common logic. The true God can
prophesy and what He prophesies do happen whereas a false god cannot
prophesy. A false god does not know what will happen in the future and
if he ever prophesies, he does not have the power to make the things he
prophesies to happen.
I will tell you what the true God told us and I know they will happen.
Would you believe that human beings will give birth to babies with
three eyes. Yes, three eyes. Has this ever happened? Never have I
seen or read or heard one. Would you also believe that human beings
will give birth to kitten? And cats will give birth to human beings?
And human beings will give birth to fish, alive and moving! Who can
say these things and make them happen? Only the true God. Would you
wait until they happen before you believe that there is God, the true
God?

What pure irrational nonsense!

Where is your OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE???

If your God is a loving caring and all powerful thing that created the
Universe
and everyting in it, why does he permit perfectly innocent children to be
stillborn, or born blind, without hearing, missing arms and legs, missing
brains, joined at the hip etc.?

If you look at the facts of the real World you can see that any creator had
a total lack of quality control. Automobiles
and appliances, produced by man, have much better quality control and fewer
defects than animals including man.

Post by Peace Crusader
You may read the recent 19 prophecies of the Holy Spirit in
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/prophecyidx.htm. One of them
is AIDS which He named Gotacural. And mankind will never find a cure
for this disease, He said. It will be an incurable disease. It has
been 25 years since AIDS first appeared and yet no cure has been found
yet.

Pure nonsense. And why would your all loving, all caring and all powerful
God torture his
creations ( including innocent children )in such a cruel manner?

Future cures for AIDS are already in the medical pipe line.

No cure for poliomyelitis and other life threatening deseases were found for
hundreds of years.
But now MAN has perfected cures. No cure for Typhoid Fever and hundreds of
other debilitating
and life threatening diseases have not yet been found in thousands of years.
Are you saying that your
all caring and loving God wants men, women and totally innocent children of
all religious
persuations to be punished indiscriminently.This might be evidence that your
God is a mean,
vicious uncaring God.

Post by Peace Crusader
Such a long time for our so-called modern and advanced science
and technology.
The love and peace of the true God be with us now and forever.

You obviouslly are basing your beliefs on myths and hallucination - NOT
OBJECTIVE
VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE!

[alen]

Post by Bill
The objective evidence is that no God created man but quite the contrary,
that man created Gods!

You endlessly repeat that, as if you can prove that
a Creator doesn't exist. The nonsensical belief
of your kind, that we were created by a giant explosion,
is not something that can give you credibility in the
eyes of believers in a Creator.

It is a far better and happier thing to be a believer
than to live in the narrow, hopeless, lifeless desert
of the inner life of an atheist.

A believer is like a man who launches an expedition
to find an old sunken treasure he believes is there,
on the basis of a credible legend, but without proof,
thus living a rich, adventurous life; whereas an
atheist is like someone confined by an inability to
even imagine anything beyond the distance he can, at
any time, presently see with his eyes.

Alen

[Bill]

Post by alen

Post by Bill
The objective evidence is that no God created man but quite the contrary,
that man created Gods!

You endlessly repeat that, as if you can prove that
a Creator doesn't exist. The nonsensical belief
of your kind, that we were created by a giant explosion,
is not something that can give you credibility in the
eyes of believers in a Creator.

NO ONE casn prove the nonexistence of nonexistence.
This is a logical falacy.

It is up to you to prove that your sky pixie exists. If no one can provide
this proof
it is reasonable and logical to assume it does not exist.

Post by alen
It is a far better and happier thing to be a believer
than to live in the narrow, hopeless, lifeless desert
of the inner life of an atheist.
A believer is like a man who launches an expedition
to find an old sunken treasure he believes is there,
on the basis of a credible legend, but without proof,
thus living a rich, adventurous life; whereas an
atheist is like someone confined by an inability to
even imagine anything beyond the distance he can, at
any time, presently see with his eyes.
Alen

It is quite obvious you are incapable of answering my challenge
with any facts. You have just resorted to myths and your hallucinations.

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

Post by Bill
It is up to you to prove that your sky pixie exists. If no one can provide
this proof
it is reasonable and logical to assume it does not exist.

sky pixie, LMAO.
good one.

[Kim Redman]

Bill, I'm a great believer in exposing religious myths, but I think the
answer to your question is obvious in that, if there was ever any physically
tangible evidence of the existence of God, then all religious matters would
have been solved long ago. No there is no physically tangible evidence of
God's existence, but that doesn't mean God doesn't exist. Just because we
have no evidence of life elsewhere in the universe, doesn't mean there isn't
any. Also, is it irrational to take into account qualitative evidence? For
example; I love my cat. Can't prove it, but I know I do. Is it not possible
that people can have emotional/spiritual experiences that are not provable
in a lab?

Then there is the problem of exactly what is provable? Can you or anyone
else prove that they exist. Is it not possible that only "I" exist and
everything I think I see and touch is just my imagination? In the end, what
is real is simply what is real to me as an individual.

So you're right, there is no PHYSICALLY tangible evidence, but nobody can
prove that the people don't have totally real spiritually tangible
experiences that are totally provable to themselves. Sorry about giving my
opinion, but that's the only way of answering your question short of saying
nothing.

Post by Bill
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and directly
showing it's existence and wishes.
Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS of
self serving men promoting their religions.
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
If a real God does exist, why does he keep his existence so illusive and
unconfirmed? There are thousands of God beliefs. Which if any are correct?
If man can communicate with the whole world via TV, Telephone, Radio and
the Internet, why doesn't any real God communicate directly with the whole
world and confirm that he is the real God and all the others are fakes?
Why does he permit so many millions of people to follow false Gods?
The objective evidence is that no God created man but quite the contrary,
that man created Gods!

[Bill]

Post by Kim Redman
Bill, I'm a great believer in exposing religious myths, but I think the
answer to your question is obvious in that, if there was ever any
physically tangible evidence of the existence of God, then all religious
matters would have been solved long ago. No there is no physically
tangible evidence of God's existence, but that doesn't mean God doesn't
exist.

Your engaging in logical falacy. Lack of evidence for somedthings existence
is NOT evidence of it's probable or likely existence.

Post by Kim Redman
Just because we have no evidence of life elsewhere in the universe, doesn't
mean there isn't any.

This is not lack of evidence of what is on THIS planet. We know that we do
not have this evidence in outer space because we can't travel to or see
clearly deep into the Universe. This is merely evidence we do not yet know.
It is neither positive or negative evidence of anything. If someone
"claimed" with NO actual objective verifiable evidence that there is an
eternal Heaven on Mars and there was a space ship that could carry you to
Mars but not return, would you make the trip based on unproven hearsay? Not
if you are sane.

Post by Kim Redman
Also, is it irrational to take into account qualitative evidence? For
example; I love my cat. Can't prove it, but I know I do. Is it not possible
that people can have emotional/spiritual experiences that are not provable
in a lab?

Loving your cat is an internal personal emotion, not a physical fact. The
fact that you love your
cat IS YOUR personal PROOF. It has nothing to do with physical facts.

Post by Kim Redman
Then there is the problem of exactly what is provable? Can you or anyone
else prove that they exist. Is it not possible that only "I" exist and
everything I think I see and touch is just my imagination? In the end,
what is real is simply what is real to me as an individual.

Your reality is shared by many others. It is not just your opinion but the
shared opinions and facts of others.

Post by Kim Redman
So you're right, there is no PHYSICALLY tangible evidence, but nobody can
prove that the people don't have totally real spiritually tangible
experiences that are totally provable to themselves.

People do have real tangible experiences. They also have psychosies and
hallucinations.

Sorry about giving my

Post by Kim Redman
opinion, but that's the only way of answering your question short of
saying nothing.

You completly ignored what I asked for below, but this a free country and
you have the right to blabber on as you choose.

Post by Kim Redman

Post by Bill
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and directly
showing it's existence and wishes.
Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS
of self serving men promoting their religions.
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
If a real God does exist, why does he keep his existence so illusive and
unconfirmed? There are thousands of God beliefs. Which if any are correct?
If man can communicate with the whole world via TV, Telephone, Radio and
the Internet, why doesn't any real God communicate directly with the
whole world and confirm that he is the real God and all the others are
fakes? Why does he permit so many millions of people to follow false
Gods?
The objective evidence is that no God created man but quite the contrary,
that man created Gods!

[Kim Redman]

Post by Bill

Post by Kim Redman
Bill, I'm a great believer in exposing religious myths, but I think the
answer to your question is obvious in that, if there was ever any
physically tangible evidence of the existence of God, then all religious
matters would have been solved long ago. No there is no physically
tangible evidence of God's existence, but that doesn't mean God doesn't
exist.

Your engaging in logical falacy. Lack of evidence for somedthings existence
is NOT evidence of it's probable or likely existence.

You need to read what I say not what you want to think I'm saying. Your own
argument works against you. Lack of evidence is NOT evidence of God's
probable or likely none existence. It's not been so long since people would
have laughed if some one had suggested something like the internet. Just
because back then there was no evidence, didn't mean it wasn't possible.

Post by Bill

Post by Kim Redman
Just because we have no evidence of life elsewhere in the universe,
doesn't mean there isn't any.

This is not lack of evidence of what is on THIS planet. We know that we do
not have this evidence in outer space because we can't travel to or see
clearly deep into the Universe. This is merely evidence we do not yet
know. It is neither positive or negative evidence of anything. If someone
"claimed" with NO actual objective verifiable evidence that there is an
eternal Heaven on Mars and there was a space ship that could carry you to
Mars but not return, would you make the trip based on unproven hearsay?
Not if you are sane.

Post by Kim Redman
Also, is it irrational to take into account qualitative evidence? For
example; I love my cat. Can't prove it, but I know I do. Is it not
possible that people can have emotional/spiritual experiences that are not
provable in a lab?

Loving your cat is an internal personal emotion, not a physical fact. The
fact that you love your
cat IS YOUR personal PROOF. It has nothing to do with physical facts.

Totally agree, but it is still evidence. I've already agreed that there is
no physically tangible evidence of the existence of God. In fact I've never
heard of any one making such a claim. I have no idea why you even asked the
question. Has some one at some stage told you they evidence? If so I'd like
to talk to them as well.

Post by Bill

Post by Kim Redman
Then there is the problem of exactly what is provable? Can you or anyone
else prove that they exist. Is it not possible that only "I" exist and
everything I think I see and touch is just my imagination? In the end,
what is real is simply what is real to me as an individual.

Your reality is shared by many others. It is not just your opinion but the
shared opinions and facts of others.

Your opinion, not mine.

Post by Bill

Post by Kim Redman
So you're right, there is no PHYSICALLY tangible evidence, but nobody can
prove that the people don't have totally real spiritually tangible
experiences that are totally provable to themselves.

People do have real tangible experiences. They also have psychosies and
hallucinations.

Doesn't prove that all such experiences are psychotic hallucinations.

Post by Bill
Sorry about giving my

Post by Kim Redman
opinion, but that's the only way of answering your question short of
saying nothing.

You completly ignored what I asked for below, but this a free country and
you have the right to blabber on as you choose.

No I did not ignore your request. I simply exposed how ridiculous the
request is as physically tangible evidence is not the only kind of evidence
to be considered. As a fundamentalist atheist, you can't provide tangible
evidence that God doesn't exist, so why demand such evidence from those who
think different to yourself. My believing in God is my opinion that I have
formed from qualitative experiences. If you have formed different beliefs,
that's your prerogative. Doesn't prove me wrong.

Post by Bill

Post by Kim Redman

Post by Bill
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE
that your or any other God actually exists.
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and
directly showing it's existence and wishes.
Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS
of self serving men promoting their religions.
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
If a real God does exist, why does he keep his existence so illusive and
unconfirmed? There are thousands of God beliefs. Which if any are correct?
If man can communicate with the whole world via TV, Telephone, Radio and
the Internet, why doesn't any real God communicate directly with the
whole world and confirm that he is the real God and all the others are
fakes? Why does he permit so many millions of people to follow false
Gods?
The objective evidence is that no God created man but quite the
contrary, that man created Gods!

[Nog]

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and directly
showing it's existence and wishes.
Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS of
self serving men promoting their religions.
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
If a real God does exist, why does he keep his existence so illusive and
unconfirmed? There are thousands of God beliefs. Which if any are correct?
If man can communicate with the whole world via TV, Telephone, Radio and
the Internet, why doesn't any real God communicate directly with the whole
world and confirm that he is the real God and all the others are fakes?
Why does he permit so many millions of people to follow false Gods?
The objective evidence is that no God created man but quite the contrary,
that man created Gods!

They are no different than UFO believers. Believing in something you can't
nail down makes them feel superior. Getting many people to believe the same
thing makes them feel powerful and all knowing.
The majority of people are REALLY FUCKED UP.

[Bill]

I can't help but note that NO ONE has so far been able to answer the
question.

"A challenge to all God believers.

I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible verifiable objective evidence.

I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists."

I'm still waiting!

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and directly
showing it's existence and wishes.
Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS of
self serving men promoting their religions.
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
If a real God does exist, why does he keep his existence so illusive and
unconfirmed? There are thousands of God beliefs. Which if any are correct?
If man can communicate with the whole world via TV, Telephone, Radio and
the Internet, why doesn't any real God communicate directly with the whole
world and confirm that he is the real God and all the others are fakes?
Why does he permit so many millions of people to follow false Gods?
The objective evidence is that no God created man but quite the contrary,
that man created Gods!

[The Grim Reaper]

Post by Bill
I can't help but note that NO ONE has so far been able to answer the
question.
"A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible verifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists."
I'm still waiting!

There isn't any. You either believe (hath faith) or you don't believe.
Simple as that! Personally, I think the Christian religion (like all other
man made religions) is just a crock of shit.

[Eric Brze]

Post by Bill
I can't help but note that NO ONE has so far been able to answer the
question.
"A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible verifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists."
I'm still waiting!

You can stop waiting now! No one is going to bring you the OBJECTIVE
VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE of God. It's for you to find out
yourself. It's personal which should not be talked about in public.

Post by Bill

Post by Bill
A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible varifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists.
If a thing so powerful that it could create the Universe, the World, and
everything in it certainly should have no difficulty clearly and directly
showing it's existence and wishes.
Ancient documents like the following, which were written by unkown self
promoting men, are NOT OBJECTIVE evidence. They are merely the OPINIONS of
self serving men promoting their religions.
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No original documents exist of the old or new testaments.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
If a real God does exist, why does he keep his existence so illusive and
unconfirmed? There are thousands of God beliefs. Which if any are correct?
If man can communicate with the whole world via TV, Telephone, Radio and
the Internet, why doesn't any real God communicate directly with the whole
world and confirm that he is the real God and all the others are fakes?
Why does he permit so many millions of people to follow false Gods?
The objective evidence is that no God created man but quite the contrary,
that man created Gods!

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

Post by Eric Brze
You can stop waiting now! No one is going to bring you the OBJECTIVE
VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE of God. It's for you to find out
yourself. It's personal which should not be talked about in public.

so, then we can get rid of the words "in invisible man in the sky we trust"
off of all money, we can get rid of all churches, etc. the benny hinns or
ernest angleys of the world will have to get REAL jobs.

[Eric Brze]

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 19:59:43 GMT, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"

Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim

Post by Eric Brze
You can stop waiting now! No one is going to bring you the OBJECTIVE
VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE of God. It's for you to find out
yourself. It's personal which should not be talked about in public.

so, then we can get rid of the words "in invisible man in the sky we trust"
off of all money, we can get rid of all churches, etc. the benny hinns or
ernest angleys of the world will have to get REAL jobs.

That would be one of the "unfortunate side effects" to all those
religious fakes. God will not be the invisible man in the sky anymore.
God will be alive and personal. No one would be able to fool anybody
by claiming the name of God.

[alen]

Post by Bill
I can't help but note that NO ONE has so far been able to answer the
question.
"A challenge to all God believers.
I am NOT asking for OPINIONS but tangible verifiable objective evidence.
I challenge anyone to provide OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that
your or any other God actually exists."
I'm still waiting!

What do your challenges matter to believers?

You can impose demands for tangible evidence
on your own life as much as you like, but why
should believers impose it on themselves just
because you do?

What does it matter to believers if you are
still waiting, or will be waiting forever?

Only you have such a need of tangible evidence,
whereas they have found an alternative and
don't have any need to answer you, whatever
you might like to say about it.

Alen

[Midjis]

Post by alen
Only you have such a need of tangible evidence,
whereas they have found an alternative and
don't have any need to answer you, whatever
you might like to say about it.

True. And if you don't believe, you don't believe - it's that simple.
Demanding proof like this almost seems to suggest a desire to be convinced.

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

if you have no evidence of shithole's existenace, then we expect you to
dismantle ALL public displays of god starting with currency.

let me know when you have it done since you admit that you have NO physical
evidence.

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

if you have no evidence of shithole's existence, then we expect you to
dismantle ALL public displays of god starting with currency.

let me know when you have it done since you admit that you have NO physical
evidence.