About Sin & God

[Larry Hyman]

Some questions..... (I'm sure some other people have had the same questions)

1. Exactly what is SIN? (from God's point of view)

2. If God knows everything, why is there a need for God to:
a) test people
b) ask questions

3) If sin is anti God or if God hates sin, would God ever tell a person to
sin?
example... God told Abraham to kill his son and offer him as a sacrifice, I
find this hard to believe, God would never tell Abraham to sin, killing his
son as a sacrifice is sin, if not, then why do we not sacrifice our children
in today's world? How would I explain that in court? "God told Abraham that
it was OK, so it should be OK, I don't have to be tried for murder!"

4) Is lying or deceit sin? We are told not to lie to one another, we are
told not to bear false witness, we are told to be honest and true. Yet the
bible is full of stories of holy people committing lies, did not Abraham,
the father of the Jews, say that Sarah was his daughter and not his wife?
Did not Isaac steal his brothers blessing by deception? Does that mean that
the whole Jewish race was based on lies and deceit? Hard to accept for an
honest and true God.

5) What is the first sin in the bible? Don't tell me Adam and Eve eating the
fruit, that may be a sin, but was it the first?
a) after they were created, it says that they were naked and not ashamed,
then when there eyes were opened, it say they saw that they were naked and
sewn fig leaves together to cover there nakedness, was not being naked (eyes
open or not) a sin?
b) God told them if they eat the forbidden fruit that they would die, they
did not, did God lie, did God sin?

6) does God have memory problems, many time after God has done something
terrible (were he destroyed many people) he say he will never do it again,
an example, the flood, yet he keeps repeating the events over again, he
promised never to destroy the people of the earth again, but all over the
bible he says that a day will come when he will destroy the whole world with
fire, what about the promises that he made to himself?

I could go on and on and on... until people start to address these real
issues, we have to realize that the foundation of these religions does not
stand up..

let us come together now and worship the hypocrite god, and if you don't
like it, I will kill you because my god tells me to....

Does this sound like God and his people?????

Larry Hyman
Montreal
Oct. 4, 2005

[Bill]

The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the opposite;
that man created gods.

Post by Larry Hyman
Some questions..... (I'm sure some other people have had the same questions)
1. Exactly what is SIN? (from God's point of view)
a) test people
b) ask questions
3) If sin is anti God or if God hates sin, would God ever tell a person to
sin?
example... God told Abraham to kill his son and offer him as a sacrifice,
I find this hard to believe, God would never tell Abraham to sin, killing
his son as a sacrifice is sin, if not, then why do we not sacrifice our
children in today's world? How would I explain that in court? "God told
Abraham that it was OK, so it should be OK, I don't have to be tried for
murder!"
4) Is lying or deceit sin? We are told not to lie to one another, we are
told not to bear false witness, we are told to be honest and true. Yet the
bible is full of stories of holy people committing lies, did not Abraham,
the father of the Jews, say that Sarah was his daughter and not his wife?
Did not Isaac steal his brothers blessing by deception? Does that mean
that the whole Jewish race was based on lies and deceit? Hard to accept
for an honest and true God.
5) What is the first sin in the bible? Don't tell me Adam and Eve eating
the fruit, that may be a sin, but was it the first?
a) after they were created, it says that they were naked and not ashamed,
then when there eyes were opened, it say they saw that they were naked and
sewn fig leaves together to cover there nakedness, was not being naked
(eyes open or not) a sin?
b) God told them if they eat the forbidden fruit that they would die, they
did not, did God lie, did God sin?
6) does God have memory problems, many time after God has done something
terrible (were he destroyed many people) he say he will never do it again,
an example, the flood, yet he keeps repeating the events over again, he
promised never to destroy the people of the earth again, but all over the
bible he says that a day will come when he will destroy the whole world
with fire, what about the promises that he made to himself?
I could go on and on and on... until people start to address these real
issues, we have to realize that the foundation of these religions does not
stand up..
let us come together now and worship the hypocrite god, and if you don't
like it, I will kill you because my god tells me to....
Does this sound like God and his people?????
Larry Hyman
Montreal
Oct. 4, 2005

[Corvus Corax]

Am Thu, 27 Oct 2005 20:06:45 -0400

Post by Bill
The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the opposite;
that man created gods.

Nah, I wouldn't agree to it like that - saying that man created gods implicates
that gods would be a product of men phantasy - i.e. non existant except in a
very questionable philosophical way (Someone thinks of it therefore it is)

just because the old and new testament are full of paradox, falseness and
possibly lie is no evidence that the whole concept of god is wrong.

That would be like to judge "I have seen you stealing, therefore you are are
criminal, this is evidence enough you must be the murderer we were searching
for, you are hereby sentenced to death"

This is, while obviously possible, not proven.

God could be a creation of man, but there is no clear evidence for or against
that.
There are however paradox with the idea of god having created this world /
the universe - or being omnipotent - at least in the way the bible describes it.

More specifically, the bible falsifies itself in its definition of god, which
means if there is a god, it is not like the bible says.

Or even more specifically, a god being which is omnipotent, omnipresent, father
and creater of all - a perfect being with no sin and no falseness,
can NOT be the same being as that "Jhwh" who claims to have
lead his people out of Egyptian slavery, has killed, has destroyed and has made
his people fight wars in his name, has deceived, has lied and made people lie.

Unfortunately it seems, that while the first one is a paradox, unexistant, a
creation of man, there is no evidence against the existance of the second.

More specifically

omnipotence is impossible, unless the omnipotent being is kept outside
the system it is omnipotent in, otherwise you have the "cannot create a task it
cannot solve" paradox

same with creation of the universe - to create it, a god would have to be
existant before there was a universe - however the definition of universe is
"all of it" - there is no before and no outside, or it wouldnt be the universe

that would imply that god wouldnt be part of this universe, but more like an
administrator, running a simulation on his bug universe-simulation machine - and
then there is no righteousness in god, no ultimate good, just arbitrariness,
like a scientist in a lab playing with his lab rats in a mace.

Maybe those lab rats would see that scientist as their god, but that would be
wrong.

or would god be that machine the universe is running on - or the universe
itself? but then it wouldn't know no right or wrong, good or evil, it would just
run coldheartedly until the simulation ends 100 billion years from now, when all
matter of the universe has either frozen in cold emptyness or got compressed in
a firy ball of high pressured quantum plasma to create maybe another big bang
and start once more, no matter how people have ever acted.

The second type of god, the immortal spirit that is indeed a part of this world,
neither omnipotent nor ultimate creator - on the other hand can distinguish good
and evil, can itself be good and evil and play a part in the history of this
world, like the bible describes it. It can lie, it can deceive, and more
importantly, it can claim to be omnipotent and creator of this world, and
deceive those who believe in it.

And at last both of these could be just mans imagination and not ever have
existed, but the falseness of a book cannot be evidence for or against this.

Ok, now lets hope no righteous fanatic christ ever reads what I have written
here or he might feel the urge to burn another heretic ;)

regards

[Bill]

You have the answer. The whole Jesus story and all the rest of the Bible
stories are nothing more than myths, legends and implausible stories.

Don't live your life based on myths.

Post by Larry Hyman
Some questions..... (I'm sure some other people have had the same questions)
1. Exactly what is SIN? (from God's point of view)
a) test people
b) ask questions
3) If sin is anti God or if God hates sin, would God ever tell a person to
sin?
example... God told Abraham to kill his son and offer him as a sacrifice,
I find this hard to believe, God would never tell Abraham to sin, killing
his son as a sacrifice is sin, if not, then why do we not sacrifice our
children in today's world? How would I explain that in court? "God told
Abraham that it was OK, so it should be OK, I don't have to be tried for
murder!"
4) Is lying or deceit sin? We are told not to lie to one another, we are
told not to bear false witness, we are told to be honest and true. Yet the
bible is full of stories of holy people committing lies, did not Abraham,
the father of the Jews, say that Sarah was his daughter and not his wife?
Did not Isaac steal his brothers blessing by deception? Does that mean
that the whole Jewish race was based on lies and deceit? Hard to accept
for an honest and true God.
5) What is the first sin in the bible? Don't tell me Adam and Eve eating
the fruit, that may be a sin, but was it the first?
a) after they were created, it says that they were naked and not ashamed,
then when there eyes were opened, it say they saw that they were naked and
sewn fig leaves together to cover there nakedness, was not being naked
(eyes open or not) a sin?
b) God told them if they eat the forbidden fruit that they would die, they
did not, did God lie, did God sin?
6) does God have memory problems, many time after God has done something
terrible (were he destroyed many people) he say he will never do it again,
an example, the flood, yet he keeps repeating the events over again, he
promised never to destroy the people of the earth again, but all over the
bible he says that a day will come when he will destroy the whole world
with fire, what about the promises that he made to himself?
I could go on and on and on... until people start to address these real
issues, we have to realize that the foundation of these religions does not
stand up..
let us come together now and worship the hypocrite god, and if you don't
like it, I will kill you because my god tells me to....
Does this sound like God and his people?????
Larry Hyman
Montreal
Oct. 4, 2005

[as3]

1.Sin is doing what God instructs not to do, or not doing what God
instructs to do. This can be through the Bible or personal.
2.God does know everything. As a parent I ask my son questions that I
know the anwsers to. This is not because I seek truth from a 3 year old,
but because I am pointing out a truth to him or making him recognize
truth.