Discussion:
What Gods exist???
(too old to reply)
Bill Mechlenburg
2005-05-30 19:33:38 UTC
Permalink
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious God
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on hearsay and
myth?



There are thousands of God beliefs and tales. Which, if any, is the real
God? Which are fakes?

What objective evidence is there as to which is the real God? If there is a
real God, why does he not tell us directly that he is the real God and all
the rest are fakes? God, being omniscient knows precisely what would
convince me of his existence. And being omnipotent, it would cost him
nothing to provide that proof, and since he loves me he's motivated to do so


Why doesn't God permit any of our dead friends or loved ones to tell us
directly about the real God and grandeur of heaven and the pain of hell?



If God exists, why does he need errant and contradictory interpreters such
as priests, preachers, clergymen and shaman to speak for him? If man can
communicate with the whole world via TV, radio and telephone, why doesn't
God have his own TV network ( or communicate direct from heaven ) to answer
our questions or at least confirm that he is the "real God"



Why does only a small fraction of mankind claim to hear God speak and then
from different Gods? Are these claims based on fantasies from mentally
deranged people or from selfish motivations? There is NO OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE
that anyone has actually talked with God or any of the billions of deceased
mortals. There are only a relatively few "claims" of these conversations.



Why would an all powerful God permit different scriptures, tomes, texts and
religious beliefs, replete with differences and contradictions, to fuel the
ravings of numerous sects, branches, churches and rites?



There are many different religions and literally thousands of God beliefs.
There are major religions such as Judaism, Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus,
Muslims, Shintoists, Confusions, Christian Scientists, Mormons, Protestants,
Catholics, Evangelicists, Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, etc.



There are a plentitude of ancient religious documents that proclaim the
validity of these many Gods.



Major sacred texts and documents;



Baha'i Sacrid writtings

Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon

The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.

No originals of the old or new testaments exist.

The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints

The Analects - Confuscianism

The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs

Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries

Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism

Qur'an - Islam

The Tanakh - Jewism

Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism

Nag Hammadi - Gnostics

Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong

And many more less popular religious beliefs.



Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes? Non of these documents are objective evidence.
They are all documents written, copied, modified and further copied, over
the centuries, by errant men with their own personal selfish motivations.
There is no way to determine authenticity or accuracy. The objective
evidence is that they are a mixture of history, myth, folklore and legends.



Which is the true religion and the real God? If there is a real God, why
doesn't he clearly declare he is the real God and correct belief system and
that all the others are fakes? Certainly if man can effectively communicate
with the whole world any real god could accomplish this.

Christian's favorite evidence for the existence of their God is the old
canard that the Universe could not just happen but had to have a
designer/creator. If it was designed/created by some god, this god has to be
even more complex than the Universe, and using this same logic, would
require that god would also have to have a creator. Who or what created god?



Many religious types claim the Intelligent Design of the Universe is proof
of God.

Intelligent design!? Consider reality. The Universe shows no evidence of
intelligent design!



Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
cancers and hundreds
of debilitating diseases and serious body malfunctions? Why does he permit
millions of both young and old to starve to death?

Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally innocent children
to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed
brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and
others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others
pauper poor? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate into a
miserable and devastating old age?



Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus,

lions, tigers, rhinoceros, poisonous snakes, stinging and poisonous insects,
poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring benevolent God create animals
(including man) that need
to kill and eat other animals to survive?



World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.
World War II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all
religious

faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more millions maimed
for life.

The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed 270,000 lives; men, women and innocent
children of all religious persuasions. 100,000 of these were totally
innocent children!

There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th.
and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and
totally

innocent children.

The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and
innocent
children indiscriminately.



Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions
indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and
malnutrition.

These afflict the young and old, atheists and those of all religious
persuasions.

It would appear that this loving and caring God must actually be a cruel,
heartless, mean and torturing tyrant.

If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you think he will let us
enjoy peace and happiness in his eternal Heaven after death?

If there is a God that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent God. Nor is he an "Intelligent Designer".

The objective evidence is that, if there is a god creator, he has no concern

about the welfare of the creatures on Earth.



This is understandable because the Earth is but a speck of dust in the vast
Universe, of billions of Planets and Stars, that is over 20 BILLION LIGHT
YEARS across.

It would appear that ALL the Gods are mythical creations of man and do not
actually exist.

Does anyone have objective evidence or proof that their God is real and
actually exists? The many ancient and contradictory documents of these many
religions are not objective evidence or proof, they are merely the
unsubstantiated and contradictory opinions, myths, fables and tales of other
mortals. There is no objective evidence that ANY of these documents are the
word of any real God. The god beliefs are about as credible as belief in the
Wizard of Oz



The objective evidence is very substantial that NO GOD CREATED MAN but that
MAN CREATED GODS!
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
2005-05-30 21:40:52 UTC
Permalink
you're absolutely right, but I'll bet what the religious fruitcakes will
come back with their usual canned responses.

1. We're taking the bible out of context
2. We can't possibly understand god's will
3. They will quote some bible verses

Of course, none of their usual bullshit responses deal with fats, but then
we can't let facts get in the way of religion now can we?

I wonder why none of the religious fruitcakes have taken me up on my offer,
why don't they prove that at least just one story in their bible is true,
re-enact the ark, the gathering and keeping of animals, c'mon religious
fruitcakes, go for it.
Pastor Frank
2005-05-31 00:39:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
you're absolutely right, but I'll bet what the religious fruitcakes will
come back with their usual canned responses.
1. We're taking the bible out of context
2. We can't possibly understand god's will
3. They will quote some bible verses
Of course, none of their usual bullshit responses deal with fats, but then
we can't let facts get in the way of religion now can we?
I wonder why none of the religious fruitcakes have taken me up on my
offer, why don't they prove that at least just one story in their bible
is true, re-enact the ark, the gathering and keeping of animals, c'mon
religious fruitcakes, go for it.
We know in truth you are Satan's sock-puppet, for you prove that to us
in every one of your posts.
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
2005-05-31 03:17:24 UTC
Permalink
so prove me wrong, go ahead and re-enact the ark fairy tale (er I mean
story) in the bible.

prove the story of the ark is real, go for it.
Mary Walker
2005-05-31 07:18:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
so prove me wrong, go ahead and re-enact the ark fairy tale (er I mean
story) in the bible.
prove the story of the ark is real, go for it.
He can't. But he has faith. Religion is now about facts, scientific
evidence, common sense and truth. Religion, as you say, is about fairy
tales - believing in those fairy tales without question. Christians bury
their head in the sand.
Bill Mechlenburg
2005-05-31 15:08:19 UTC
Permalink
Any one that disagrees with Pastor Frank's nonsense is an agent of the
devil!
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
you're absolutely right, but I'll bet what the religious fruitcakes will
come back with their usual canned responses.
1. We're taking the bible out of context
2. We can't possibly understand god's will
3. They will quote some bible verses
Of course, none of their usual bullshit responses deal with fats, but then
we can't let facts get in the way of religion now can we?
I wonder why none of the religious fruitcakes have taken me up on my
offer, why don't they prove that at least just one story in their bible
is true, re-enact the ark, the gathering and keeping of animals, c'mon
religious fruitcakes, go for it.
We know in truth you are Satan's sock-puppet, for you prove that to us
in every one of your posts.
c***@gmail.com
2005-06-03 22:46:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
wonder why none of the religious fruitcakes have taken me up on my offer,
why don't they prove that at least just one story in their bible is
true,
re-enact the ark, the gathering and keeping of animals, c'mon religious

fruitcakes, go for it. <<<<<<<<<<<<<

You reflect, as if from a glass, the spirit of darkness and lord of
your soul. As pure as God is and the Spirit of Him in Christ; and as
certain as He shows us his Spirit of goodness and righteousness, we
know that you are showing us the spirit dwelling in you and it stands
in darkness.

Behave yourself and be silent.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but a fool despises
wisdom and instruction. Seek repentance before it is too late and fear
The Lord God, be not like the fool.


Carol T
Nog
2005-05-30 21:58:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious God
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on hearsay and
myth?
The only god is the one in your head.
Eric Brze
2005-05-31 04:45:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nog
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious God
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on hearsay and
myth?
The only god is the one in your head.
That's the wrong god.

The only God is the one in our heart.
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
2005-05-31 10:54:20 UTC
Permalink
oh, so now it's not invisible man in the sky, it's invisible man in the
heart.

lmao.

the only good god is a dead god.
Eric Brze
2005-05-31 18:58:45 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 31 May 2005 10:54:20 GMT, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"
Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
oh, so now it's not invisible man in the sky, it's invisible man in the
heart.
Hehehe... I recognize my sins... but I guess that is the sin I have to
carry since there is no other way.
Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
lmao.
the only good god is a dead god.
No, the only good idol is a dead idol, but please do continue your
effort in destroying the idol god.
Pastor Frank
2005-05-31 21:12:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Brze
Post by Nog
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious God
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on hearsay
and myth?
The only god is the one in your head.
That's the wrong god.
The only God is the one in our heart.
..........and who lives in our praises. That is the truth as per His holy
and inerrant word, the Bible.
It's amazing, that atheists never can find anything praiseworthy under
heaven.
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
2005-06-01 02:01:17 UTC
Permalink
holy and inerrant word, now you're off the deep end....

from the post: bible babble !

18.. God curses the serpent. From now on the serpent will crawl on his belly
and eat dust. One wonders how he got around before -- by hopping on his
tail, perhaps? But snakes don't eat dust, do they? 3:14
ZenIsWhen
2005-06-01 05:52:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Eric Brze
Post by Nog
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious God
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on hearsay
and myth?
The only god is the one in your head.
That's the wrong god.
The only God is the one in our heart.
..........and who lives in our praises. That is the truth as per His holy
and inerrant word, the Bible.
It's amazing, that atheists never can find anything praiseworthy under
heaven.
What's amazing is that zealots like you keep inventing lies and distorting
reality!

Atheists find a lot of things "praiseworthy" - they just aren't into pretend
"superbeings".
Pastor Frank
2005-06-02 13:44:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by ZenIsWhen
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Eric Brze
Post by Nog
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious God
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on hearsay
and myth?
The only god is the one in your head.
That's the wrong god.
The only God is the one in our heart.
..........and who lives in our praises. That is the truth as per His holy
and inerrant word, the Bible.
It's amazing, that atheists never can find anything praiseworthy under
heaven.
What's amazing is that zealots like you keep inventing lies and distorting
reality!
Thanks for proving my point. You can always be relied upon to complain
incessantly without ever proving anything. LOL
Barry Trotter
2005-06-03 08:02:55 UTC
Permalink
In the great debate about "Re: What Gods exist???" in
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by ZenIsWhen
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Eric Brze
Post by Nog
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious God
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on hearsay
and myth?
The only god is the one in your head.
That's the wrong god.
The only God is the one in our heart.
..........and who lives in our praises. That is the truth as per His holy
and inerrant word, the Bible.
It's amazing, that atheists never can find anything praiseworthy under
heaven.
What's amazing is that zealots like you keep inventing lies and distorting
reality!
Thanks for proving my point. You can always be relied upon to complain
incessantly without ever proving anything. LOL
Typical Christian hypocrisy, claiming the right not to have to prove
anything and then demanding it of everybody else.

David Silverman F.L.A.H.N. aa #2208
Barry Trotter
2005-06-02 14:54:09 UTC
Permalink
In the great debate about "Re: What Gods exist???" in
Post by Pastor Frank
It's amazing, that atheists never can find anything praiseworthy under
heaven.
Now, could that _possibly_ be because heaven doesn't exist?

David Silverman F.L.A.H.N. aa #2208
Pastor Frank
2005-05-31 03:05:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nog
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious God
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on hearsay and
myth?
The only god is the one in your head.
That's right, and that is why God is so important. Our Christian God is
about having great ideals to pursue and live a purpose driven life, whereas
most other religions, including atheism, are fatalistic, the product of
cynicism, hopelessness and despair.
ZenIsWhen
2005-05-31 20:02:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Nog
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious God
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on hearsay and
myth?
The only god is the one in your head.
That's right, and that is why God is so important. Our Christian God is
about having great ideals to pursue and live a purpose driven life, whereas
most other religions, including atheism, are fatalistic, the product of
cynicism, hopelessness and despair.
If ignorance is, indeed, bliss - Frank MUST be one of the happiest people
around!
v***@aol.com
2005-05-30 22:13:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious God
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on hearsay and
myth?
There are thousands of God beliefs and tales. Which, if any, is the real
God? Which are fakes?
What objective evidence is there as to which is the real God? If there is a
real God, why does he not tell us directly that he is the real God and all
the rest are fakes? God, being omniscient knows precisely what would
convince me of his existence. And being omnipotent, it would cost him
nothing to provide that proof, and since he loves me he's motivated to do so
Why doesn't God permit any of our dead friends or loved ones to tell us
directly about the real God and grandeur of heaven and the pain of hell?
If God exists, why does he need errant and contradictory interpreters such
as priests, preachers, clergymen and shaman to speak for him? If man can
communicate with the whole world via TV, radio and telephone, why doesn't
God have his own TV network ( or communicate direct from heaven ) to answer
our questions or at least confirm that he is the "real God"
Why do you ask questions in vain? Unless you pray for guidance, your
questions will always be in vain. How sad that you depend on the very
form of life that cannot help you, mankind.

Prayer For The Gift Of Understanding:

Lord Jesus Christ, grant me the gift of understanding. Help me to
understand the feelings of others, the desires of others, the goals of
others. At the same time, help me to understand myself in my actions
and reactions. Widen my vision beyond my own small world to embrace
with knowledge and love the worlds of others.

Help me, Lord, to always see you at work in my own life and in the
lives of others. Bless me with insight, acceptance and love that is
tempered by you who are all things to all men. Help me to understand,
Lord. Amen.
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
2005-05-30 23:20:27 UTC
Permalink
lord jesus christ, go fuck yourself.

lord jesus shithead, where were you on 9/11/2001 ?
Pastor Frank
2005-05-31 03:21:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
lord jesus christ, go fuck yourself.
lord jesus shithead, where were you on 9/11/2001 ?
You better get your fire-proof suit ready, Pal. It's going to be hot
where you are going!!!!!
Bill Mechlenburg
2005-05-31 20:55:12 UTC
Permalink
And your objective evidence there is such a thing as hell???

Hell and souls are pure myth! When you die you are just dead.
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
lord jesus christ, go fuck yourself.
lord jesus shithead, where were you on 9/11/2001 ?
You better get your fire-proof suit ready, Pal. It's going to be hot
where you are going!!!!!
Pastor Frank
2005-06-01 11:04:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
lord jesus christ, go fuck yourself.
lord jesus shithead, where were you on 9/11/2001 ?
You better get your fire-proof suit ready, Pal. It's going to be hot
where you are going!!!!!
And your objective evidence there is such a thing as hell???
Hell and souls are pure myth! When you die you are just dead.
You haven't been around much, have you? Just listen, and you know,
whether a person is in hell or not, for hell is wherever people complain
interminably. See below. But one might say that complainers are only in
the outer fringes of hell, for those in the very depth of hell can't
complain any longer. They are aware, yet forever silent.

Pastor Frank

Jesus in Mt:8:12: But the children of Satan's kingdom shall be cast into
outer darkness: There shall be wailing (of interminable complaints) and
gnashing of teeth (in furious anger and frustration).
Mary Walker
2005-06-02 07:44:01 UTC
Permalink
forever silent.
Post by AR
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Mt:8:12: But the children of Satan's kingdom shall be cast into
outer darkness: There shall be wailing (of interminable complaints) and
gnashing of teeth (in furious anger and frustration).
Ah that proves it.... Pastor Frank has proved his point again. If Jesus
said it ... it MUST be true. LOL. Couldn't our hero, Jesus have forgiven
these children and thus saved them from this Hell? After all, they were
only children.
Bill
2005-06-02 19:25:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
lord jesus christ, go fuck yourself.
lord jesus shithead, where were you on 9/11/2001 ?
You better get your fire-proof suit ready, Pal. It's going to be hot
where you are going!!!!!
And your objective evidence there is such a thing as hell???
Hell and souls are pure myth! When you die you are just dead.
You haven't been around much, have you?
Quite the contrary. I was raised as a Catholic, served as an alter boy,
attended a
Catholic Grade School and High School. I have a science degree.

I am now eighty years old and learned long ago that the Christion religion
is built on
a foundation of myth, dogma and ritual.

I have no fear of your hell because it is pure myth.
Post by Pastor Frank
Just listen, and you know,
whether a person is in hell or not, for hell is wherever people complain
interminably. See below. But one might say that complainers are only in
the outer fringes of hell, for those in the very depth of hell can't
complain any longer. They are aware, yet forever silent.
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Mt:8:12: But the children of Satan's kingdom shall be cast into
outer darkness: There shall be wailing (of interminable complaints) and
gnashing of teeth (in furious anger and frustration).
c***@gmail.com
2005-06-03 22:56:10 UTC
Permalink
Dear Bill,

You were raised amongst people's who loved their religion and had not
been saved to Christ, but may come to Christ through knowing where He
is. Will you receive The Holy Spirit whilst you worry where a cup must
be placed, a song that must be sung, that your science has given you
more questions than answers, or even that the foundation of your
education feels like being on sand?

In Christ's love
Carol T
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
2005-06-01 01:26:09 UTC
Permalink
where am I going? Dallas texas?

lol, hey quote some more bible verses.

the invisible man in the sky
Barry Trotter
2005-06-02 14:55:19 UTC
Permalink
In the great debate about "Re: What Gods exist???" in
is futile

David Silverman F.L.A.H.N. aa #2208
AR
2005-05-30 22:24:22 UTC
Permalink
Bill,

Good post. I doubt that you will get any decent replies other than a
few prayers for your soul (which doesn't exist).
Pastor Frank
2005-05-31 00:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious God
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on hearsay and
myth?
Religion deals with ideal behaviour. Only demented atheists think, that
it's about "hearsay and myth".
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
2005-05-31 03:18:19 UTC
Permalink
where is the invisible man in the sky ?????

we give you facts, you give us invisible man in the sky ...
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
2005-05-31 03:26:04 UTC
Permalink
religion is a fucking farce !

George Carlin states it quite well.

But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when
it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I
tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own
image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I
really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the
more you look around, the more you realize, something is fucked up.

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth,
poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is
definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I
am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a
Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp
with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run
universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time
ago.

So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he's
at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn't give a shit.

So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and
aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some
spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a shit, I decided to look
around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.

And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I
became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at
night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several
reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I
could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see
something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know?
So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat,
light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional
skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not
setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.

Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry,
no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a
special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And
the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell
me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word.
Treats me fine.
c***@gmail.com
2005-06-03 23:19:19 UTC
Permalink
If it treats you fine, why the darkness and foulness reflecting from
your soul? Where is your fellowship? Why do they not love and care for
you that they leave you drowning in obscenities and sin, instead of
bringing your lords word to our ears. Where is your lord's goodness and
righteousness? Where is his perfect standard?

Jesus worshiped His Father where ever He stood, and not with song and
pagentary, but prayer. We sing hymns to uplift us personally, it is not
mandatory, many just listen, some just chose prayer. His light is never
obscured by the clouds or disappears for more than the night if you
accept Him as your Lord and saviour, He is with us always.

There are many kinds of diseases in this world. You need not worry
about the ones you can pray about, but worry for the cancers riddling
your heart, mind and soul. These are the cancers God sent His Son to
rid us of, because such cancers destroy the world He so loves.

Carol T
AR
2005-05-31 03:34:05 UTC
Permalink
Pastor Frank,

What part of ideal behaviour do you mean? Kill your kid if he swears at
you, kill people that work on the sabbath, own slaves, kill
homosexuals, kill a woman not a virgin when married, bash infants
against rocks, not allow bastards in church are all part of god's
teachings.

At least you don't have to take Exlax because Song of Solomon 6:4 Says,
" My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door and my bowels were
moved for him."
Mary Walker
2005-05-31 07:16:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by AR
Pastor Frank,
What part of ideal behaviour do you mean? Kill your kid if he swears at
you, kill people that work on the sabbath, own slaves, kill
homosexuals, kill a woman not a virgin when married, bash infants
against rocks, not allow bastards in church are all part of god's
teachings.
At least you don't have to take Exlax because Song of Solomon 6:4 Says,
" My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door and my bowels were
moved for him."
Because Christians can only think in terms of black and white.
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
2005-05-31 11:13:25 UTC
Permalink
"At least you don't have to take Exlax because Song of Solomon 6:4 Says, "
My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door and my bowels were moved
for him."


Take a shit for christ ! rotflmao.

That's about right, because christ and the bible are a bunch of shit, a
bunch of bullshit !!!!

invisible man in the sky
Mary Walker
2005-05-31 07:13:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious God
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on hearsay and
myth?
Religion deals with ideal behaviour. Only demented atheists think, that
it's about "hearsay and myth".
ROTFL. This would explain why more wars, inquisitions, torture in the
history of mankind have been caused by some kind of religion. Many, many
millions of people have been murdered, burnt alive and tortured in the name
of Christ.
Bill Mechlenburg
2005-05-31 15:13:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious God
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on hearsay and
myth?
Religion deals with ideal behaviour. Only demented atheists think, that
it's about "hearsay and myth".
Take the time to actually read the Bibles. They are loaded with blood, gore
and cruelty.
Just a few examples are Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah and the tower of babble.
Carl Rooker
2005-05-31 14:28:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious God
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on hearsay and
myth?
A simple answer is that if you believe in God, and you base your life on Him
in truth, then you would do the things that are right, and not the things
that are wrong.
(see next answer)
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
There are thousands of God beliefs and tales. Which, if any, is the real
God? Which are fakes?
If belief in God inspires you to kill, steal, oppress others, lie, and covet
what is anothers, then that God is definitely a fake.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
What objective evidence is there as to which is the real God? If there is a
real God, why does he not tell us directly that he is the real God and all
the rest are fakes? God, being omniscient knows precisely what would
convince me of his existence. And being omnipotent, it would cost him
nothing to provide that proof, and since he loves me he's motivated to do so
One did, you just refuse to believe Him.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Why doesn't God permit any of our dead friends or loved ones to tell us
directly about the real God and grandeur of heaven and the pain of hell?
LK 16:27 "He answered, `Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's
house, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not
also come to this place of torment.'

LK 16:29 "Abraham replied, `They have Moses and the Prophets; let them
listen to them.'

LK 16:30 " `No, father Abraham,' he said, `but if someone from the dead goes
to them, they will repent.'

LK 16:31 "He said to him, `If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets,
they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
If God exists, why does he need errant and contradictory interpreters such
as priests, preachers, clergymen and shaman to speak for him? If man can
communicate with the whole world via TV, radio and telephone, why doesn't
God have his own TV network ( or communicate direct from heaven ) to answer
our questions or at least confirm that he is the "real God"
He does not need any clergy, or interpreters. He gives His Holy Spirit to
all who turn to Him in His Son.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Why does only a small fraction of mankind claim to hear God speak and then
from different Gods? Are these claims based on fantasies from mentally
deranged people or from selfish motivations? There is NO OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE
that anyone has actually talked with God or any of the billions of deceased
mortals. There are only a relatively few "claims" of these conversations.
Many are based upon egotistical pronouncements of certain people. Mankind
is in rebellion against God, so you must treat all such statements
carefully.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Why would an all powerful God permit different scriptures, tomes, texts and
religious beliefs, replete with differences and contradictions, to fuel the
ravings of numerous sects, branches, churches and rites?
Because He lives in the Real World, unlike you, and gives all mankind the
choice to believe in Him or not. Because we are in said rebellion, many
false teachers and prophets will arise to mislead mankind.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
There are many different religions and literally thousands of God beliefs.
There are major religions such as Judaism, Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus,
Muslims, Shintoists, Confusions, Christian Scientists, Mormons, Protestants,
Catholics, Evangelicists, Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, etc.
2 different subjects here. The first one is of beliefe in different Gods.
The other is small differences in those who believe in the same God. The
last 6 in your last paragraph is an example of slightly differences in the
same Faith.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
There are a plentitude of ancient religious documents that proclaim the
validity of these many Gods.
Yep, there are. And not all of them can be correct.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Major sacred texts and documents;
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
There are probably more than that. However, not one of them say's anything
substantially different than any of the others. Also take into account that
many of these translations are intended for different dialects of the
english language. The KJV was intended for the people of 1611. The
American and New American Standard were particularly for the dialects in N.
America. The New International Version was intended for a general audiance
of english speaking people. The Living Bible is only a paraphrase of the
Bible to make it easier for new Christians and children to understand..
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
No originals of the old or new testaments exist.
A good thing too, or some would venerate these as objects of worship.
However, we have whole texts, and many partial texts that date back to the
second century AD. This gives us a very good idea that we have the original
intent of the NT. There are thousands of such.

The OT has documents that date back even further, plus a translation into
Greek (the Septuigent) that gives us a very good idea that what we have now
is accurate.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
And many more less popular religious beliefs.
So what. Just because there are many different books, does not make the
Bible less of God's Word. It only means that there are many throughout
history who have written religious books.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes? Non of these documents are objective evidence.
They are all documents written, copied, modified and further copied, over
the centuries, by errant men with their own personal selfish motivations.
There is no way to determine authenticity or accuracy. The objective
evidence is that they are a mixture of history, myth, folklore and legends.
Like I said before, we may not have the original copies, but there are so
many full texts and partials from so early, that we can be confident that
they were copied correctly. In any good Bible translation, the varient
translations are always noted, as well as other problem spots.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Which is the true religion and the real God? If there is a real God, why
doesn't he clearly declare he is the real God and correct belief system and
that all the others are fakes? Certainly if man can effectively communicate
with the whole world any real god could accomplish this.
He did.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Christian's favorite evidence for the existence of their God is the old
canard that the Universe could not just happen but had to have a
designer/creator. If it was designed/created by some god, this god has to be
even more complex than the Universe, and using this same logic, would
require that god would also have to have a creator. Who or what created god?
Nonsense. Being the Creator exempts Him from needing to be created. He is
the source of all, and this argument holds no water.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Many religious types claim the Intelligent Design of the Universe is proof
of God.
Intelligent design!? Consider reality. The Universe shows no evidence of
intelligent design!
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
cancers and hundreds
of debilitating diseases and serious body malfunctions? Why does he permit
millions of both young and old to starve to death?
He has allowed us to go our own way, in rebellion against Him. All of the
evils you speak of here are the result of kicking Him out of our world.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally innocent children
to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed
brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and
others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others
pauper poor? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate into a
miserable and devastating old age?
Because He is not obligated to run the universe to your specifications.
Like I have said, each and everyone of the things you mention are the result
of our rebellion to Him.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus,
lions, tigers, rhinoceros, poisonous snakes, stinging and poisonous insects,
poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring benevolent God create animals
(including man) that need
to kill and eat other animals to survive?
These are all beutiful and amazing animals in their own right....He is not
obligated to run the universe to your specifications.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.
World War II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all
religious
faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more millions maimed
for life.
This was Mankinds tragedy, caused by sinful man... It is foolish to blame
Him for what we do to ourselves.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed 270,000 lives; men, women and innocent
children of all religious persuasions. 100,000 of these were totally
innocent children!
And, if certain governments were not so anti-american, and cared so little
for their own people (except as a means to power) these people would have
had enough warning to get away from the wave. As it is, a warning was sent,
but there was no system in place to recieve it.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th.
and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and
totally
innocent children.
Spread by the squaler of Europe at that time. If they had even a
rudimentary sanitation system, many would have been spared.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and
innocent
children indiscriminately.
Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions
indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and
malnutrition.
These afflict the young and old, atheists and those of all religious
persuasions.
It would appear that this loving and caring God must actually be a cruel,
heartless, mean and torturing tyrant.
Wrong. He has left us to our own devices, according to our choice.

However, He did send His Son, in an effort to reconcile us to Himself. He
is indeed very caring. He just does not do things according to your
specifications.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you think he will let us
enjoy peace and happiness in his eternal Heaven after death?
If there is a God that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent God. Nor is he an "Intelligent Designer".
The objective evidence is that, if there is a god creator, he has no concern
about the welfare of the creatures on Earth.
The only objective thing you have proven is that He does not run the
universe according to your liking. And, yet, His hand of Grace is still
held out to you, and those like you, who choose to belittle Him.

This argument has been posted many times in these ngs, and it holds no
water.

He has given us every chance, and has visited us, in His Son. But people
still hold forth nonsense arguments against Him.

God Bless
Carl
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
This is understandable because the Earth is but a speck of dust in the vast
Universe, of billions of Planets and Stars, that is over 20 BILLION LIGHT
YEARS across.
It would appear that ALL the Gods are mythical creations of man and do not
actually exist.
Does anyone have objective evidence or proof that their God is real and
actually exists? The many ancient and contradictory documents of these many
religions are not objective evidence or proof, they are merely the
unsubstantiated and contradictory opinions, myths, fables and tales of other
mortals. There is no objective evidence that ANY of these documents are the
word of any real God. The god beliefs are about as credible as belief in the
Wizard of Oz
The objective evidence is very substantial that NO GOD CREATED MAN but that
MAN CREATED GODS!
Bill Mechlenburg
2005-05-31 15:19:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious God
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on hearsay and
myth?
A simple answer is that if you believe in God, and you base your life on Him
in truth, then you would do the things that are right, and not the things
that are wrong.
(see next answer)
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
There are thousands of God beliefs and tales. Which, if any, is the real
God? Which are fakes?
If belief in God inspires you to kill, steal, oppress others, lie, and covet
what is anothers, then that God is definitely a fake.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
What objective evidence is there as to which is the real God? If there
is
Post by Carl Rooker
a
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
real God, why does he not tell us directly that he is the real God and all
the rest are fakes? God, being omniscient knows precisely what would
convince me of his existence. And being omnipotent, it would cost him
nothing to provide that proof, and since he loves me he's motivated to
do
Post by Carl Rooker
so
One did, you just refuse to believe Him.
You keep making this claim but never supply objective evidence.

The mythical tales in the Bibles are not evidence of anything. Where is any
solid objective evidence?

You are believing in myths and preaching myths- nothing more!
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Why doesn't God permit any of our dead friends or loved ones to tell us
directly about the real God and grandeur of heaven and the pain of hell?
LK 16:27 "He answered, `Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's
house, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not
also come to this place of torment.'
LK 16:29 "Abraham replied, `They have Moses and the Prophets; let them
listen to them.'
LK 16:30 " `No, father Abraham,' he said, `but if someone from the dead goes
to them, they will repent.'
LK 16:31 "He said to him, `If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets,
they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
If God exists, why does he need errant and contradictory interpreters such
as priests, preachers, clergymen and shaman to speak for him? If man can
communicate with the whole world via TV, radio and telephone, why doesn't
God have his own TV network ( or communicate direct from heaven ) to
answer
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
our questions or at least confirm that he is the "real God"
He does not need any clergy, or interpreters. He gives His Holy Spirit to
all who turn to Him in His Son.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Why does only a small fraction of mankind claim to hear God speak and then
from different Gods? Are these claims based on fantasies from mentally
deranged people or from selfish motivations? There is NO OBJECTIVE
EVIDENCE
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
that anyone has actually talked with God or any of the billions of
deceased
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
mortals. There are only a relatively few "claims" of these
conversations.
Post by Carl Rooker
Many are based upon egotistical pronouncements of certain people. Mankind
is in rebellion against God, so you must treat all such statements
carefully.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Why would an all powerful God permit different scriptures, tomes, texts
and
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
religious beliefs, replete with differences and contradictions, to fuel
the
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
ravings of numerous sects, branches, churches and rites?
Because He lives in the Real World, unlike you, and gives all mankind the
choice to believe in Him or not. Because we are in said rebellion, many
false teachers and prophets will arise to mislead mankind.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
There are many different religions and literally thousands of God beliefs.
There are major religions such as Judaism, Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus,
Muslims, Shintoists, Confusions, Christian Scientists, Mormons,
Protestants,
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Catholics, Evangelicists, Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, etc.
2 different subjects here. The first one is of beliefe in different Gods.
The other is small differences in those who believe in the same God. The
last 6 in your last paragraph is an example of slightly differences in the
same Faith.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
There are a plentitude of ancient religious documents that proclaim the
validity of these many Gods.
Yep, there are. And not all of them can be correct.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Major sacred texts and documents;
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
There are probably more than that. However, not one of them say's anything
substantially different than any of the others. Also take into account that
many of these translations are intended for different dialects of the
english language. The KJV was intended for the people of 1611. The
American and New American Standard were particularly for the dialects in N.
America. The New International Version was intended for a general audiance
of english speaking people. The Living Bible is only a paraphrase of the
Bible to make it easier for new Christians and children to understand..
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
No originals of the old or new testaments exist.
A good thing too, or some would venerate these as objects of worship.
However, we have whole texts, and many partial texts that date back to the
second century AD. This gives us a very good idea that we have the original
intent of the NT. There are thousands of such.
The OT has documents that date back even further, plus a translation into
Greek (the Septuigent) that gives us a very good idea that what we have now
is accurate.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
And many more less popular religious beliefs.
So what. Just because there are many different books, does not make the
Bible less of God's Word. It only means that there are many throughout
history who have written religious books.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes? Non of these documents are objective evidence.
They are all documents written, copied, modified and further copied, over
the centuries, by errant men with their own personal selfish
motivations.
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
There is no way to determine authenticity or accuracy. The objective
evidence is that they are a mixture of history, myth, folklore and
legends.
Like I said before, we may not have the original copies, but there are so
many full texts and partials from so early, that we can be confident that
they were copied correctly. In any good Bible translation, the varient
translations are always noted, as well as other problem spots.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Which is the true religion and the real God? If there is a real God, why
doesn't he clearly declare he is the real God and correct belief system
and
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
that all the others are fakes? Certainly if man can effectively
communicate
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
with the whole world any real god could accomplish this.
He did.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Christian's favorite evidence for the existence of their God is the old
canard that the Universe could not just happen but had to have a
designer/creator. If it was designed/created by some god, this god has
to
Post by Carl Rooker
be
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
even more complex than the Universe, and using this same logic, would
require that god would also have to have a creator. Who or what created
god?
Nonsense. Being the Creator exempts Him from needing to be created. He is
the source of all, and this argument holds no water.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Many religious types claim the Intelligent Design of the Universe is proof
of God.
Intelligent design!? Consider reality. The Universe shows no evidence of
intelligent design!
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
cancers and hundreds
of debilitating diseases and serious body malfunctions? Why does he permit
millions of both young and old to starve to death?
He has allowed us to go our own way, in rebellion against Him. All of the
evils you speak of here are the result of kicking Him out of our world.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally innocent children
to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed
brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and
others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others
pauper poor? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate into a
miserable and devastating old age?
Because He is not obligated to run the universe to your specifications.
Like I have said, each and everyone of the things you mention are the result
of our rebellion to Him.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus,
lions, tigers, rhinoceros, poisonous snakes, stinging and poisonous
insects,
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring benevolent God create animals
(including man) that need
to kill and eat other animals to survive?
These are all beutiful and amazing animals in their own right....He is not
obligated to run the universe to your specifications.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.
World War II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of
all
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
religious
faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more millions maimed
for life.
This was Mankinds tragedy, caused by sinful man... It is foolish to blame
Him for what we do to ourselves.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed 270,000 lives; men, women and
innocent
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
children of all religious persuasions. 100,000 of these were totally
innocent children!
And, if certain governments were not so anti-american, and cared so little
for their own people (except as a means to power) these people would have
had enough warning to get away from the wave. As it is, a warning was sent,
but there was no system in place to recieve it.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th.
and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and
totally
innocent children.
Spread by the squaler of Europe at that time. If they had even a
rudimentary sanitation system, many would have been spared.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and
innocent
children indiscriminately.
Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions
indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and
malnutrition.
These afflict the young and old, atheists and those of all religious
persuasions.
It would appear that this loving and caring God must actually be a cruel,
heartless, mean and torturing tyrant.
Wrong. He has left us to our own devices, according to our choice.
However, He did send His Son, in an effort to reconcile us to Himself. He
is indeed very caring. He just does not do things according to your
specifications.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you think he will let us
enjoy peace and happiness in his eternal Heaven after death?
If there is a God that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent God. Nor is he an "Intelligent Designer".
The objective evidence is that, if there is a god creator, he has no
concern
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
about the welfare of the creatures on Earth.
The only objective thing you have proven is that He does not run the
universe according to your liking. And, yet, His hand of Grace is still
held out to you, and those like you, who choose to belittle Him.
This argument has been posted many times in these ngs, and it holds no
water.
He has given us every chance, and has visited us, in His Son. But people
still hold forth nonsense arguments against Him.
God Bless
Carl
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
This is understandable because the Earth is but a speck of dust in the
vast
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Universe, of billions of Planets and Stars, that is over 20 BILLION LIGHT
YEARS across.
It would appear that ALL the Gods are mythical creations of man and do not
actually exist.
Does anyone have objective evidence or proof that their God is real and
actually exists? The many ancient and contradictory documents of these
many
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
religions are not objective evidence or proof, they are merely the
unsubstantiated and contradictory opinions, myths, fables and tales of
other
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
mortals. There is no objective evidence that ANY of these documents are
the
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
word of any real God. The god beliefs are about as credible as belief in
the
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Wizard of Oz
The objective evidence is very substantial that NO GOD CREATED MAN but
that
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
MAN CREATED GODS!
Carl Rooker
2005-06-01 01:11:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious God
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on hearsay
and
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
myth?
A simple answer is that if you believe in God, and you base your life on
Him
Post by Carl Rooker
in truth, then you would do the things that are right, and not the things
that are wrong.
(see next answer)
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
There are thousands of God beliefs and tales. Which, if any, is the real
God? Which are fakes?
If belief in God inspires you to kill, steal, oppress others, lie, and
covet
Post by Carl Rooker
what is anothers, then that God is definitely a fake.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
What objective evidence is there as to which is the real God? If there
is
Post by Carl Rooker
a
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
real God, why does he not tell us directly that he is the real God and
all
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
the rest are fakes? God, being omniscient knows precisely what would
convince me of his existence. And being omnipotent, it would cost him
nothing to provide that proof, and since he loves me he's motivated to
do
Post by Carl Rooker
so
One did, you just refuse to believe Him.
You keep making this claim but never supply objective evidence.
The mythical tales in the Bibles are not evidence of anything. Where is any
solid objective evidence?
You are believing in myths and preaching myths- nothing more!
For a myth, He has had far more influence on the human race than you will
ever have. Makes Him a lot more real than you are.

Throughout the Bible, OT and NT, we are told that there is a special people,
who will always be in His eye, and will never die out. They have been cast
out of their land (as He said they would be), and they are now back in that
land as He said they would be.

If you want objective evidence of the real God, then look at the survival of
the Jew. They are not perfect, they have had their troubles, but God's hand
of love is still on His people, even though they rejected Him.

And, bear in mind that the Prophets of the Bible told us of their being
conquered, dispersed, and brought back for the end time.

God Bless
Carl
Bill
2005-06-01 01:33:46 UTC
Permalink
More myths and fables. This is all pure nonsense.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious God
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on hearsay
and
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
myth?
A simple answer is that if you believe in God, and you base your life on
Him
Post by Carl Rooker
in truth, then you would do the things that are right, and not the
things
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Carl Rooker
that are wrong.
(see next answer)
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
There are thousands of God beliefs and tales. Which, if any, is the
real
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
God? Which are fakes?
If belief in God inspires you to kill, steal, oppress others, lie, and
covet
Post by Carl Rooker
what is anothers, then that God is definitely a fake.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
What objective evidence is there as to which is the real God? If there
is
Post by Carl Rooker
a
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
real God, why does he not tell us directly that he is the real God and
all
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
the rest are fakes? God, being omniscient knows precisely what would
convince me of his existence. And being omnipotent, it would cost him
nothing to provide that proof, and since he loves me he's motivated to
do
Post by Carl Rooker
so
One did, you just refuse to believe Him.
You keep making this claim but never supply objective evidence.
The mythical tales in the Bibles are not evidence of anything. Where is
any
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
solid objective evidence?
You are believing in myths and preaching myths- nothing more!
For a myth, He has had far more influence on the human race than you will
ever have. Makes Him a lot more real than you are.
Throughout the Bible, OT and NT, we are told that there is a special people,
who will always be in His eye, and will never die out. They have been cast
out of their land (as He said they would be), and they are now back in that
land as He said they would be.
If you want objective evidence of the real God, then look at the survival of
the Jew. They are not perfect, they have had their troubles, but God's hand
of love is still on His people, even though they rejected Him.
And, bear in mind that the Prophets of the Bible told us of their being
conquered, dispersed, and brought back for the end time.
God Bless
Carl
Carl Rooker
2005-06-01 14:34:36 UTC
Permalink
Well, then you need a reality check. Especially considering all of the
problems that are due to this particular "myth" today.

God Bless
Carl
Post by Bill
More myths and fables. This is all pure nonsense.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious
God
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on
hearsay
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
and
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
myth?
A simple answer is that if you believe in God, and you base your
life
Post by Bill
on
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Him
Post by Carl Rooker
in truth, then you would do the things that are right, and not the
things
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Carl Rooker
that are wrong.
(see next answer)
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
There are thousands of God beliefs and tales. Which, if any, is the
real
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
God? Which are fakes?
If belief in God inspires you to kill, steal, oppress others, lie, and
covet
Post by Carl Rooker
what is anothers, then that God is definitely a fake.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
What objective evidence is there as to which is the real God? If
there
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
is
Post by Carl Rooker
a
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
real God, why does he not tell us directly that he is the real God
and
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
all
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
the rest are fakes? God, being omniscient knows precisely what would
convince me of his existence. And being omnipotent, it would cost
him
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
nothing to provide that proof, and since he loves me he's
motivated
Post by Bill
to
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
do
Post by Carl Rooker
so
One did, you just refuse to believe Him.
You keep making this claim but never supply objective evidence.
The mythical tales in the Bibles are not evidence of anything. Where is
any
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
solid objective evidence?
You are believing in myths and preaching myths- nothing more!
For a myth, He has had far more influence on the human race than you will
ever have. Makes Him a lot more real than you are.
Throughout the Bible, OT and NT, we are told that there is a special
people,
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
who will always be in His eye, and will never die out. They have been
cast
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
out of their land (as He said they would be), and they are now back in
that
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
land as He said they would be.
If you want objective evidence of the real God, then look at the
survival
Post by Bill
of
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
the Jew. They are not perfect, they have had their troubles, but God's
hand
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
of love is still on His people, even though they rejected Him.
And, bear in mind that the Prophets of the Bible told us of their being
conquered, dispersed, and brought back for the end time.
God Bless
Carl
Bill
2005-06-01 15:27:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Rooker
Well, then you need a reality check. Especially considering all of the
problems that are due to this particular "myth" today.
God Bless
Carl
A little education for Carl Rooker.
Keep in mind the motivations. Non believers have no motivation to not
believe in Jesus and the Bibles. They just can't find any meaningful
objective evidence to believe. Christians have strong motivations to believe
because they are taught that Jesus is their savior and the route to a
wonderful life in heaven after death. One is based on objective evidence
while the other is based on the fear of death!
Who Was Jesus Christ?
Charles Bradlaugh
MANY persons will consider the question one to which the Gospels give a
sufficient answer and that no further inquiry is necessary. But while the
general Christian body affirm that Jesus was God incarnate on earth, the
Unitarian Christians, less in numerical strength but numbering a large
proportion of the more intelligent and humane, absolutely deny his divinity;
the Jews, of whom he is alleged to have been one, do not believe in him at
all; and the enormous majority of the inhabitants of the earth have never
accepted the Gospels. Even in the earliest ages of the Christian Church
heretics were found, amongst Christians themselves, who denied that Jesus
had ever existed in the flesh. Under these circumstances the most pious
should concede that it is well to prosecute the inquiry to the uttermost,
that their faith may rest on sure foundations. The history of Jesus Christ
is contained in four books or gospels; outside these it cannot be pretended
that there is any reliable narrative of his life. We know not with any
certainty, and have now no means of knowing, when, where, or by whom these
Gospels were written. The name at the head of each Gospel affords no clue to
the real writer. Before A.D. 160 no author mentions any Gospels by Matthew,
Mark, Luke, or John, and there is no sufficient evidence to identify the
Gospels we have with even the writings to which Irenaeus refers towards the
close of the second century. The Church has provided us with an author for
each Gospel, and some early Fathers have argued that there ought to be four
Gospels, because there are four seasons, four principal points to the
compass, and four corners to the earth. Bolder speculators affirm twelve
apostles because there are twelve signs of the Zodiac. With regard to the
Gospel first in order, divines disagree as to the language written. Some
allege that the original was in Hebrew, others deny that our Greek version
has any of the characters of a translation.
We neither know the hour, nor day, nor month, nor year of Jesus's birth;
divines generally agree that he was not born on Christmas Day, and yet on
that day the anniversary of his birth is observed. The Oxford Chronology
places the matter in no clearer light, and more than thirty learned
authorities give a period of over seven years' difference in their
reckoning. The place of his birth is also uncertain. The Jews, in the
presence of Jesus, reproached him that he ought to have been born at
Bethlehem, and he never replied "I was born there ", (John vii. 41, 42, 52).

Jesus was the son of David, the son of Abraham (Matt. i.), from whom his
descent is traced through Isaac -- born of Sarai (whom the writer of the
epistle to Galatians [iv. 24] says was a covenant and not a woman) -- and
ultimately through Joseph, who was not only not his father, but is not shown
to have had any kind of relationship to him, and through whom therefore the
genealogy should not be traced. There are two genealogies in the Gospels
which contradict each other, and these in part may be collated with the Old
Testament genealogy, which differs from both. The genealogy of Matthew is
self-contradictory, counts thirteen names as fourteen, and omits the names
of three kings. Matthew says Abiud was the son of Zorobabel (i. 13). Luke
says Zorobabel's son was Rhesa (iii. 27). The Old Testament contradicts
both, and gives Meshullam and Hananiah, and Shelomith, their sister (1
Chron. iii. 19), as the names of Zorobabel's children. The reputed father of
Jesus, Joseph, had two fathers, one named Jacob, the other Heli. The divines
suggest that Heli was the father of Mary, by reading the word "Mary" in Luke
iii. 23, in lieu of "Joseph," and the word "daughter" in lieu of "son," thus
correcting the evident blunder made by inspiration. The birth of Jesus was
miraculously announced to Mary and to Joseph by visits of an angel, but they
so little regarded the miraculous annunciation that they marvelled soon
after at much less wonderful things spoken by Simeon.
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill
More myths and fables. This is all pure nonsense.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Most people live and control their lives based on their religious
God
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
beliefs. Should the most important life decisions be based on
hearsay
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
and
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
myth?
A simple answer is that if you believe in God, and you base your
life
Post by Bill
on
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Him
Post by Carl Rooker
in truth, then you would do the things that are right, and not the
things
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Carl Rooker
that are wrong.
(see next answer)
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
There are thousands of God beliefs and tales. Which, if any, is
the
Post by Bill
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
real
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
God? Which are fakes?
If belief in God inspires you to kill, steal, oppress others, lie,
and
Post by Bill
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
covet
Post by Carl Rooker
what is anothers, then that God is definitely a fake.
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
What objective evidence is there as to which is the real God? If
there
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
is
Post by Carl Rooker
a
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
real God, why does he not tell us directly that he is the real God
and
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
all
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
the rest are fakes? God, being omniscient knows precisely what
would
Post by Bill
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
convince me of his existence. And being omnipotent, it would cost
him
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Carl Rooker
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
nothing to provide that proof, and since he loves me he's
motivated
Post by Bill
to
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
do
Post by Carl Rooker
so
One did, you just refuse to believe Him.
You keep making this claim but never supply objective evidence.
The mythical tales in the Bibles are not evidence of anything. Where
is
Post by Bill
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
any
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
solid objective evidence?
You are believing in myths and preaching myths- nothing more!
For a myth, He has had far more influence on the human race than you
will
Post by Bill
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
ever have. Makes Him a lot more real than you are.
Throughout the Bible, OT and NT, we are told that there is a special
people,
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
who will always be in His eye, and will never die out. They have been
cast
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
out of their land (as He said they would be), and they are now back in
that
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
land as He said they would be.
If you want objective evidence of the real God, then look at the
survival
Post by Bill
of
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
the Jew. They are not perfect, they have had their troubles, but God's
hand
Post by Bill Mechlenburg
of love is still on His people, even though they rejected Him.
And, bear in mind that the Prophets of the Bible told us of their being
conquered, dispersed, and brought back for the end time.
God Bless
Carl
Pastor Frank
2005-06-02 21:05:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
Post by Carl Rooker
Well, then you need a reality check. Especially considering all of the
problems that are due to this particular "myth" today.
A little education for Carl Rooker.
Keep in mind the motivations. Non believers have no motivation to not
believe in Jesus and the Bibles. They just can't find any meaningful
objective evidence to believe.
Sheeeesh!!!!! Another trolling atheist in our pristine Christian NGs.
When will they post to their own groups? Christ is about having a philosophy
of life that is life-friendly, for our Christian "God is love" (1 John
4:8,16) become fully manifested in Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary.
Only complete morons would demand "meaningful and objective evidence" of
love from those who love them. You must be a teenage boy demanding your
girlfriend prove her love for you "meaningfully and objectively" by letting
you climb into her panties. LOL
Now get serious or get lost already!!!!
Bill
2005-06-03 21:22:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill
Post by Carl Rooker
Well, then you need a reality check. Especially considering all of the
problems that are due to this particular "myth" today.
A little education for Carl Rooker.
Keep in mind the motivations. Non believers have no motivation to not
believe in Jesus and the Bibles. They just can't find any meaningful
objective evidence to believe.
Sheeeesh!!!!! Another trolling atheist in our pristine Christian NGs.
When will they post to their own groups? Christ is about having a philosophy
of life that is life-friendly, for our Christian "God is love" (1 John
4:8,16) become fully manifested in Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary.
Only complete morons would demand "meaningful and objective evidence" of
love from those who love them. You must be a teenage boy demanding your
girlfriend prove her love for you "meaningfully and objectively" by letting
you climb into her panties. LOL
Now get serious or get lost already!!!!
I notice you are incapable of replying to the data in the posts. You always
side step the issue
and post more nonsense.

A teenage boy! Why don't you get your facts straight. I happen to be over 80
years old with
a science degree. That's why I like to deal in facts instead of myths. Get
your head out of your myths Carl.
Pastor Frank
2005-06-04 07:59:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill
Post by Carl Rooker
Well, then you need a reality check. Especially considering all of the
problems that are due to this particular "myth" today.
A little education for Carl Rooker.
Keep in mind the motivations. Non believers have no motivation to not
believe in Jesus and the Bibles. They just can't find any meaningful
objective evidence to believe.
Sheeeesh!!!!! Another trolling atheist in our pristine Christian NGs.
When will they post to their own groups? Christ is about having a
philosophy
Post by Pastor Frank
of life that is life-friendly, for our Christian "God is love" (1 John
4:8,16) become fully manifested in Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary.
Only complete morons would demand "meaningful and objective evidence"
of
Post by Pastor Frank
love from those who love them. You must be a teenage boy demanding your
girlfriend prove her love for you "meaningfully and objectively" by
letting you climb into her panties. LOL
Now get serious or get lost already!!!!
I notice you are incapable of replying to the data in the posts. You always
side step the issue and post more nonsense.
What IS the issue, except, that you are an atheist who either got lost
here or is trolling our pristine Christian NGs to be objectionable and
defamatory?
Post by Pastor Frank
A teenage boy! Why don't you get your facts straight. I happen to be over 80
years old with a science degree. That's why I like to deal in facts
instead of myths. Get
your head out of your myths Carl.
You mean like all those brilliant scientists who cheerfully devised
better and more efficient tools and methods to exterminate Jews, Gypsies,
homosexuals, JWs, pre-term babies and other "undesirables"?
Christ is about having ethic and ideals, and those to the death if need
be, none of which are facts as yet and may indeed be regarded as "myths" by
the cynical and despairing. That it is possible to achieve that Kingdom of
Heaven Christ speaks of, is a matter of faith. This will happen when
hopefully enough people decide to live up to Christ's ideals.
Are you with us or against us?
c***@gmail.com
2005-06-03 23:33:43 UTC
Permalink
You might like to read some of the Dead Sea Scroll translations and
their reference to the 'Great Teacher'


Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 AD), "the greatest historian" of ancient
Rome:
Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas, chief secretary of Emperor Hadrian
(117-138 AD):
Flavius Josephus (37-97 AD), court historian for Emperor Vespasian:
Julius Africanus, writing around 221 AD, found a reference in the
writings of Thallus, who wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean
around 52 AD, which dealt with the darkness that covered the land
during Jesus's crucifixion:
Pliny the Younger, Roman governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor around 112
AD: Emperor Trajan, in reply to Pliny:
Emporer Hadrian (117-138 AD), in a letter to Minucius Fundanus, the
Asian proconsul:
The Jewish Talmud, compiled between 70 and 200 AD: Lucian, a second
century Greek satirist:
Mara Bar-Serapion, of Syria, writing between 70 and 200 AD from prison
to motivate his son to emulate wise teachers of the past:
GNOSTICS SOURCES
The Gospel of Truth, probably by Valentius, around 135-160 AD:
The Aprocryphon of John, probably by Saturninus, around 120-130 AD:
The Gospel of Thomas, probably from 140-200 AD:
The Treatise On Resurrection, by uncertain author of the late second
century, to Rheginos:

LOST WORKS QUOTED IN OTHER SOURCES
Acts of Pontius Pilate, reports sent from Pilate to Tiberius, referred
to by Justin Martyr (150 AD):
Phlegon, born about 80 AD, as reported by Origen (185-254 AD),
mentioned that Jesus made certain predictions which had been fulfilled.

ANCIENT CHRISTIAN SOURCES
(extra-biblical)
Clement, elder of Rome, letter to the Corinthian church (95 AD):
Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, letter to the Trallians (110-115 AD):
Ignatius, letter to the Smyrneans (110-115 AD):
Ignatius, letter to the Magnesians (110-115 AD):
Quadratus, to Emperor Hadrian about 125 AD:
(Pseudo-)Barnabas, written 130-138 AD:
Justin Martyr, to Emperor Antoninus Pius about 150 AD:
Justin Martyr, in Dialogue with Trypho, around 150 AD:

http://www.carlislecofc.org/ex­trabiblical.htm


Also if you have not read it Psalm 22

In 2,000 years time will anyone care or know Hitler's birth? Yet people
might read books written about him years and years after his death. In
fact, you are reading about him now in this post more than 50 years on.
Do you deny he existed too?


Carol T
Barry Trotter
2005-06-02 15:00:46 UTC
Permalink
In the great debate about "Re: What Gods exist???" in
Post by Carl Rooker
If belief in God inspires you to kill, steal, oppress others, lie, and covet
what is anothers, then that God is definitely a fake.
The phrase 'bang to fucking rights!' springs readily to mind.

David Silverman F.L.A.H.N. aa #2208
c***@gmail.com
2005-06-03 22:31:56 UTC
Permalink
God is God, if you climb the religious mountains you will find Him
above all things. To Him our sins are exposed, even if we believe
mountains of sin and disaster can be pulled over them.

If you happen to be in the poximity of a natural disaster or impending
disease, pray that you will hear His Holy Spirit and He will save your
life. If you do not, don't expect Him to calm the earth because He has
the harmony of the earth and its creatures to care for too.

Jesus tells us to love God with all our heart, mind, soul and stength
and to love our neighbours as ourselves :o)

Let the peace of the Holy Spirit be with you through the salvation of
The Lord Jesus Christ.

In Christ's love
Carol T
AR
2005-06-03 23:35:01 UTC
Permalink
Carol,

How do you explain the "saving" of Hindus when they pray to their Hindu
gods? They certainly don't pray to your god and there is even a better
chance that they have never heard of him. A lot of strange things
happen to people all over the world and to imply that your god is
behind all of it is just straight BS.
c***@gmail.com
2005-06-04 09:48:36 UTC
Permalink
No man who prays to idols is saved because he gives glory to division
and forces which keep people divided into further generations. Even the
saints pass those who pray to them on to The Lord God.

Spiritual powers are not the 'statues' or idols of men's minds. We are
made in God's image, not He in ours, we simply chose to distance
ourselves from Him because of sin, therefore if we continue to sin we
are not reflecting the image in which we were truly made.

God does not tell us to ignore the world's wisdom and understandings,
but to learn and to teach our children in His light and care.

In Christ's love
Carol T

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