Discussion:
A SIMPLE QUESTION
(too old to reply)
Bill M
2007-11-24 10:48:57 UTC
Permalink
There are thousands of different God beliefs.

If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Christopher A.Lee
2007-11-24 15:52:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?

Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Bill M
2007-11-24 11:45:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Why are you getting so excited because someone posts a simple question?

Are you the official censor of this news group???
Carl Kaufmann
2007-11-24 18:43:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Why are you getting so excited because someone posts a simple question?
Because you posted it to a newsgroup where it's moot.
Post by Bill M
Are you the official censor of this news group???
Hahaha. Censors censor, i.e. if Christopher was a censor your post
wouldn't show up. He's an atheist, on an atheist group (that is,
home ground) asking why you cross-posted an implicitly theistic
question here.
duke
2007-11-24 19:00:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Why are you getting so excited because someone posts a simple question?
Are you the official censor of this news group???
Uhhhhhhh, dissension in the ranks.

duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
bob young
2007-11-25 00:44:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Why are you getting so excited because someone posts a simple question?
Are you the official censor of this news group???
Uhhhhhhh, dissension in the ranks.
LOL makes a refreshing change from arguing about the trinity and Jesus
Post by duke
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Christopher A.Lee
2007-11-24 19:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Couldn't answer this?
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Couldn't answer this?
Post by Bill M
Why are you getting so excited because someone posts a simple question?
Why are you so dishonest?
Post by Bill M
Are you the official censor of this news group???
Why are you so dishonest?
Bill M
2007-11-25 13:07:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Because there are many religionists that post to this news group and atheism
is the counter point to religion and Gods.
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Couldn't answer this?
Answered. Does this make you happy.
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Couldn't answer this?
Only in your bigoted not very intelligent opinion.
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Why are you getting so excited because someone posts a simple question?
Why are you so dishonest?
Silly claim with NO evidence. How can a simple QUESTION be dishonest?
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Are you the official censor of this news group???
Why are you so dishonest?
Where is the dishonesty???

Why do you feel so compelled to engage in disparaging and supercilious
remarks?
Do you think this is evidence of your intelligence?
Christopher A.Lee
2007-11-25 18:14:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Because there are many religionists that post to this news group and atheism
is the counter point to religion and Gods.
Translation: to reduce yourself to their level.
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Couldn't answer this?
Answered. Does this make you happy.
Answered with a transparent lie. You're doing it to troll the theist
newsgroups and start flame wars. While I'm aware this gives them a
taste of their own medicine, you reduce yourself and all of us to
their level.
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Couldn't answer this?
Only in your bigoted not very intelligent opinion.
What "bigoted not very intelligent opinion", liar?
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Why are you getting so excited because someone posts a simple question?
Why are you so dishonest?
Silly claim with NO evidence. How can a simple QUESTION be dishonest?
The premises behind your question were a dishonest falsehood.

We get enough bullshit cross posted from the theist newsgroups without
your starting even more of it.
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Are you the official censor of this news group???
Why are you so dishonest?
Where is the dishonesty???
Stop pretending, troll. Or was it some other liar also hiding behind
the nym BillM who asked a dishonest loaded question rather than
admitting he was as brain dead a troll as Puke and all the others?
Post by Bill M
Why do you feel so compelled to engage in disparaging and supercilious
remarks?
Why do you feel the need to lie rather than admit you are trolling the
theist newsgroups to start flame wars?
Post by Bill M
Do you think this is evidence of your intelligence?
Do you think this is evidence of your honesty?
Bill M
2007-11-25 16:35:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Because there are many religionists that post to this news group and atheism
is the counter point to religion and Gods.
Translation: to reduce yourself to their level.
In your not very intelligent 'opinion'!
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Couldn't answer this?
Answered. Does this make you happy.
Answered with a transparent lie. You're doing it to troll the theist
newsgroups and start flame wars. While I'm aware this gives them a
taste of their own medicine, you reduce yourself and all of us to
their level.
Where is the lie??? And what evidence do you have to substantiat your
nonsensical claim?
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Couldn't answer this?
Only in your bigoted not very intelligent opinion.
What "bigoted not very intelligent opinion", liar?
Why do you feel the need to be so insulting and whare is your evidence tha I
lied?
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Why are you getting so excited because someone posts a simple question?
Why are you so dishonest?
Silly claim with NO evidence. How can a simple QUESTION be dishonest?
The premises behind your question were a dishonest falsehood.
In your not very intelligent 'opinion'!
Post by Christopher A.Lee
We get enough bullshit cross posted from the theist newsgroups without
your starting even more of it.
Post by Bill M
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Are you the official censor of this news group???
Why are you so dishonest?
Where is the dishonesty???
Stop pretending, troll. Or was it some other liar also hiding behind
the nym BillM who asked a dishonest loaded question rather than
admitting he was as brain dead a troll as Puke and all the others?
You have a serious mental problem. seek some help.
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Why do you feel so compelled to engage in disparaging and supercilious
remarks?
Why do you feel the need to lie rather than admit you are trolling the
theist newsgroups to start flame wars?
Why do you think your unsubstantiated wild OPINIONS are fact?
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
Do you think this is evidence of your intelligence?
Do you think this is evidence of your honesty?
Read my post. where can there be dishonesty in posing a simple question.

You have some kind of mental problem.
bob young
2007-11-25 00:43:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
IOW ........you can't answer the question, or the question irritated you
quite a lot .........Eh?
Michael Gray
2007-11-25 05:34:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
Mr. Lee is an equal opportunity anti-spammer.

Bill M is known for starting cross-posts to various theist'
newsgroups; posts that seem to me to be intentionally inflammatory.
Chris has every right to complain about this deliberate and uncivil
provocation.
It is the same low gutter tactics that the criminal fundamentalists
employ.

Atheist or not, Bill is committing a social faux pas by stooping to
their level.
bob young
2007-11-25 05:56:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
Mr. Lee is an equal opportunity anti-spammer.
Bill M is known for starting cross-posts to various theist'
newsgroups; posts that seem to me to be intentionally inflammatory.
To me they all seem to be the same. "Prove your god exists".
The fact that you cannot results in insulting behavior and name calling.

We are used to it
Post by Michael Gray
Chris has every right to complain about this deliberate and uncivil
provocation.
It is the same low gutter tactics that the criminal fundamentalists
employ.
Atheist or not, Bill is committing a social faux pas by stooping to
their level.
Michael Gray
2007-11-25 06:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
Mr. Lee is an equal opportunity anti-spammer.
Bill M is known for starting cross-posts to various theist'
newsgroups; posts that seem to me to be intentionally inflammatory.
To me they all seem to be the same. "Prove your god exists".
The fact that you cannot results in insulting behavior and name calling.
We are used to it
Quite possibly true, but in no way renders Mr. Lee's take on the
activities as invalid.
All in all, an outright evasion of his criticism.
Post by bob young
Post by Michael Gray
Chris has every right to complain about this deliberate and uncivil
provocation.
It is the same low gutter tactics that the criminal fundamentalists
employ.
Atheist or not, Bill is committing a social faux pas by stooping to
their level.
Michael Gray
2007-11-25 06:29:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
Mr. Lee is an equal opportunity anti-spammer.
Bill M is known for starting cross-posts to various theist'
newsgroups; posts that seem to me to be intentionally inflammatory.
To me they all seem to be the same. "Prove your god exists".
The fact that you cannot results in insulting behavior and name calling.
We are used to it
Michael Gray is also an staunch atheist. Anybody here but me keeping
track of posters' beliefs or lack thereof?...
I can not see a need for such a register.
I judge posters' on their behaviour and validity and coherency of
their arguments, not their professed belief or otherwise.
Pastor Frank
2007-11-27 19:57:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
Mr. Lee is an equal opportunity anti-spammer.
Bill M is known for starting cross-posts to various theist'
newsgroups; posts that seem to me to be intentionally inflammatory.
To me they all seem to be the same. "Prove your god exists".
The fact that you cannot results in insulting behavior and name calling.
We are used to it
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We
therefore know our God and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
Atheists don't know our God and therefore cannot see Him, (Jesus in
John 3:3) and no, we won't send you all our money as "objective, verifiable
evidence", to prove our love for you. That's what you are after, aren't you?
You will just have to believe us, that we answer your posts because we
love you in the Lord and that this loving action evidences our God, whose
essence is that very love and care we show others.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
bob young
2007-11-28 03:17:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
Mr. Lee is an equal opportunity anti-spammer.
Bill M is known for starting cross-posts to various theist'
newsgroups; posts that seem to me to be intentionally inflammatory.
To me they all seem to be the same. "Prove your god exists".
The fact that you cannot results in insulting behavior and name calling.
We are used to it
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We
therefore know our God and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
Atheists don't know our God and therefore cannot see Him, (Jesus in
John 3:3) and no, we won't send you all our money as "objective, verifiable
evidence", to prove our love for you. That's what you are after, aren't you?
You will just have to believe us, that we answer your posts because we
love you in the Lord and that this loving action evidences our God........
.............and I suppose in the next breath you will claim you are
intelligent !

Groan
Post by Pastor Frank
whose
essence is that very love and care we show others.
Groan - ANYONE, of any faith or lack of faith, can care for others.

Your club has no monopoly on caring. You simply hijack that magnificent human
trait, repackage it and market it back to propagate your club membership. Man
feels safer in numbers. It goes back to the two million plus years that we
lived like the wolves, over sixty thousand generations living and dying without
any progress at all, living in fear of other humans and the rank confusion of
stone age life. No wonder we crave for companionship - it is instinctive in
all of us. Our gods, of course, we made up much later, after we leaned a
simple language.

Yes Frank your antecedents and mine go back to those days. No gods back then;
only fear of the unknown.
Post by Pastor Frank
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Christopher A.Lee
2007-11-25 11:45:34 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:04:24 +1030, Michael Gray
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
Mr. Lee is an equal opportunity anti-spammer.
Bill M is known for starting cross-posts to various theist'
newsgroups; posts that seem to me to be intentionally inflammatory.
Chris has every right to complain about this deliberate and uncivil
provocation.
It is the same low gutter tactics that the criminal fundamentalists
employ.
Atheist or not, Bill is committing a social faux pas by stooping to
their level.
Yep.
bob young
2007-11-26 05:08:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher A.Lee
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:04:24 +1030, Michael Gray
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
Mr. Lee is an equal opportunity anti-spammer.
Bill M is known for starting cross-posts to various theist'
newsgroups; posts that seem to me to be intentionally inflammatory.
Chris has every right to complain about this deliberate and uncivil
provocation.
It is the same low gutter tactics that the criminal fundamentalists
employ.
Atheist or not, Bill is committing a social faux pas by stooping to
their level.
Yep.
Bill is carrying out a public service
since groveling to imaginary gods is a mental disease
Michael Gray
2007-11-26 05:32:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by Christopher A.Lee
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:04:24 +1030, Michael Gray
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
Mr. Lee is an equal opportunity anti-spammer.
Bill M is known for starting cross-posts to various theist'
newsgroups; posts that seem to me to be intentionally inflammatory.
Chris has every right to complain about this deliberate and uncivil
provocation.
It is the same low gutter tactics that the criminal fundamentalists
employ.
Atheist or not, Bill is committing a social faux pas by stooping to
their level.
Yep.
Bill is carrying out a public service
since groveling to imaginary gods is a mental disease
That may be true, but it neither negates Christopher's nor my
observations, nor excuses the stooping to the theists' abominably low
moral level.
Such can be executed *without* degradation.
bob young
2007-11-27 03:13:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Gray
Post by bob young
Post by Christopher A.Lee
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:04:24 +1030, Michael Gray
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
Mr. Lee is an equal opportunity anti-spammer.
Bill M is known for starting cross-posts to various theist'
newsgroups; posts that seem to me to be intentionally inflammatory.
Chris has every right to complain about this deliberate and uncivil
provocation.
It is the same low gutter tactics that the criminal fundamentalists
employ.
Atheist or not, Bill is committing a social faux pas by stooping to
their level.
Yep.
Bill is carrying out a public service
since groveling to imaginary gods is a mental disease
That may be true, but it neither negates Christopher's nor my
observations, nor excuses the stooping to the theists' abominably low
moral level.
Such can be executed *without* degradation.
Yes but I don't see any degradation in Bill's posts.
Other than when he gets some silly dodging and weaving reponse and then it is a
case of like with like.
Michael Gray
2007-11-27 06:07:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by Michael Gray
Post by bob young
Post by Christopher A.Lee
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:04:24 +1030, Michael Gray
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
Mr. Lee is an equal opportunity anti-spammer.
Bill M is known for starting cross-posts to various theist'
newsgroups; posts that seem to me to be intentionally inflammatory.
Chris has every right to complain about this deliberate and uncivil
provocation.
It is the same low gutter tactics that the criminal fundamentalists
employ.
Atheist or not, Bill is committing a social faux pas by stooping to
their level.
Yep.
Bill is carrying out a public service
since groveling to imaginary gods is a mental disease
That may be true, but it neither negates Christopher's nor my
observations, nor excuses the stooping to the theists' abominably low
moral level.
Such can be executed *without* degradation.
Yes but I don't see any degradation in Bill's posts.
Other than when he gets some silly dodging and weaving reponse and then it is a
case of like with like.
I was referring to the degredation of his techniques, stooping to
deliberate and continuous unsolicited provocation, not his actual
arguments.
bob young
2007-11-27 08:21:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Gray
Post by bob young
Post by Michael Gray
Post by bob young
Post by Christopher A.Lee
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:04:24 +1030, Michael Gray
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
Mr. Lee is an equal opportunity anti-spammer.
Bill M is known for starting cross-posts to various theist'
newsgroups; posts that seem to me to be intentionally inflammatory.
Chris has every right to complain about this deliberate and uncivil
provocation.
It is the same low gutter tactics that the criminal fundamentalists
employ.
Atheist or not, Bill is committing a social faux pas by stooping to
their level.
Yep.
Bill is carrying out a public service
since groveling to imaginary gods is a mental disease
That may be true, but it neither negates Christopher's nor my
observations, nor excuses the stooping to the theists' abominably low
moral level.
Such can be executed *without* degradation.
Yes but I don't see any degradation in Bill's posts.
Other than when he gets some silly dodging and weaving reponse and then it is a
case of like with like.
I was referring to the degredation of his techniques, stooping to
deliberate and continuous unsolicited provocation, not his actual
arguments.
'A simple question do gods exist' is hardly unsolicited provocation. In this day
and age when thousands die every month in opposing religious beleifs and cults, the
question sits firmly in the humanist camp. IMO.

Exactly what provocative statements do you have in mind?
Michael Gray
2007-11-27 08:35:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by Michael Gray
Post by bob young
Post by Michael Gray
Post by bob young
Post by Christopher A.Lee
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:04:24 +1030, Michael Gray
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
Mr. Lee is an equal opportunity anti-spammer.
Bill M is known for starting cross-posts to various theist'
newsgroups; posts that seem to me to be intentionally inflammatory.
Chris has every right to complain about this deliberate and uncivil
provocation.
It is the same low gutter tactics that the criminal fundamentalists
employ.
Atheist or not, Bill is committing a social faux pas by stooping to
their level.
Yep.
Bill is carrying out a public service
since groveling to imaginary gods is a mental disease
That may be true, but it neither negates Christopher's nor my
observations, nor excuses the stooping to the theists' abominably low
moral level.
Such can be executed *without* degradation.
Yes but I don't see any degradation in Bill's posts.
Other than when he gets some silly dodging and weaving reponse and then it is a
case of like with like.
I was referring to the degredation of his techniques, stooping to
deliberate and continuous unsolicited provocation, not his actual
arguments.
'A simple question do gods exist' is hardly unsolicited provocation. In this day
and age when thousands die every month in opposing religious beleifs and cults, the
question sits firmly in the humanist camp. IMO.
Exactly what provocative statements do you have in mind?
I have always thought of you as an especially logical chap, and am
therefore surpisrised at your repeated mireading of my stance.

I have not contended that any of his "statements" are provocative.

I simply contend that his crossposts are unsolicited.

This is supported by objective FACTS, and am at a loss as to why you
have repeatedly misinterpreted my assertion of the plain facts, as
supported by posting logs.

Do you actually understand where I am coming from?
bob young
2007-11-27 09:50:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Gray
Post by bob young
Post by Michael Gray
Post by bob young
Post by Michael Gray
Post by bob young
Post by Christopher A.Lee
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:04:24 +1030, Michael Gray
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
Mr. Lee is an equal opportunity anti-spammer.
Bill M is known for starting cross-posts to various theist'
newsgroups; posts that seem to me to be intentionally inflammatory.
Chris has every right to complain about this deliberate and uncivil
provocation.
It is the same low gutter tactics that the criminal fundamentalists
employ.
Atheist or not, Bill is committing a social faux pas by stooping to
their level.
Yep.
Bill is carrying out a public service
since groveling to imaginary gods is a mental disease
That may be true, but it neither negates Christopher's nor my
observations, nor excuses the stooping to the theists' abominably low
moral level.
Such can be executed *without* degradation.
Yes but I don't see any degradation in Bill's posts.
Other than when he gets some silly dodging and weaving reponse and then it is a
case of like with like.
I was referring to the degredation of his techniques, stooping to
deliberate and continuous unsolicited provocation, not his actual
arguments.
'A simple question do gods exist' is hardly unsolicited provocation. In this day
and age when thousands die every month in opposing religious beleifs and cults, the
question sits firmly in the humanist camp. IMO.
Exactly what provocative statements do you have in mind?
I have always thought of you as an especially logical chap, and am
therefore surpisrised at your repeated mireading of my stance.
I have not contended that any of his "statements" are provocative.
I simply contend that his crossposts are unsolicited.
This is supported by objective FACTS, and am at a loss as to why you
have repeatedly misinterpreted my assertion of the plain facts, as
supported by posting logs.
Do you actually understand where I am coming from?
I do now. I have to admit that I speed read here quite a bit and I really lost the
drift this time.

But isn't cross posting common here? I do not find it all that irritating, a kind of
'the more the merrier' if you know what I mean. I do understand though that Bill's
persistent questioning the existence of gods may well be most irritating to some.

Cheers

Bob
Bill M
2007-11-27 17:23:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Gray
Post by bob young
Post by Michael Gray
Post by bob young
Post by Michael Gray
Post by bob young
Post by Christopher A.Lee
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:04:24 +1030, Michael Gray
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 21:16:22 -0800 (PST), Olrik
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 10:48:57 -0000, "Bill M"
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so
terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
Mr. Lee is an equal opportunity anti-spammer.
Bill M is known for starting cross-posts to various theist'
newsgroups; posts that seem to me to be intentionally
inflammatory.
Chris has every right to complain about this deliberate and uncivil
provocation.
It is the same low gutter tactics that the criminal
fundamentalists
employ.
Atheist or not, Bill is committing a social faux pas by stooping to
their level.
Yep.
Bill is carrying out a public service
since groveling to imaginary gods is a mental disease
That may be true, but it neither negates Christopher's nor my
observations, nor excuses the stooping to the theists' abominably low
moral level.
Such can be executed *without* degradation.
Yes but I don't see any degradation in Bill's posts.
Other than when he gets some silly dodging and weaving reponse and then it is a
case of like with like.
I was referring to the degredation of his techniques, stooping to
deliberate and continuous unsolicited provocation, not his actual
arguments.
'A simple question do gods exist' is hardly unsolicited provocation. In this day
and age when thousands die every month in opposing religious beleifs and cults, the
question sits firmly in the humanist camp. IMO.
Exactly what provocative statements do you have in mind?
I have always thought of you as an especially logical chap, and am
therefore surpisrised at your repeated mireading of my stance.
I have not contended that any of his "statements" are provocative.
I simply contend that his crossposts are unsolicited.
What posts are solicited??? Where is the Internet rule that posts need to be
'solicited'?

Why don't you just be honest and say you don't like my post. Reasons why
would also be
beneficial.
Post by Michael Gray
This is supported by objective FACTS, and am at a loss as to why you
have repeatedly misinterpreted my assertion of the plain facts, as
supported by posting logs.
What are these objective FACTS???
Post by Michael Gray
Do you actually understand where I am coming from?
Your just dodging and weaving because you can't supply honest replies.
Michael Gray
2007-11-28 04:15:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill M
Post by Michael Gray
Post by bob young
Post by Michael Gray
Post by bob young
Post by Michael Gray
Post by bob young
Post by Christopher A.Lee
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:04:24 +1030, Michael Gray
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 21:16:22 -0800 (PST), Olrik
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 10:48:57 -0000, "Bill M"
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so
terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
Mr. Lee is an equal opportunity anti-spammer.
Bill M is known for starting cross-posts to various theist'
newsgroups; posts that seem to me to be intentionally inflammatory.
Chris has every right to complain about this deliberate and uncivil
provocation.
It is the same low gutter tactics that the criminal
fundamentalists
employ.
Atheist or not, Bill is committing a social faux pas by stooping to
their level.
Yep.
Bill is carrying out a public service
since groveling to imaginary gods is a mental disease
That may be true, but it neither negates Christopher's nor my
observations, nor excuses the stooping to the theists' abominably low
moral level.
Such can be executed *without* degradation.
Yes but I don't see any degradation in Bill's posts.
Other than when he gets some silly dodging and weaving reponse and then it is a
case of like with like.
I was referring to the degredation of his techniques, stooping to
deliberate and continuous unsolicited provocation, not his actual
arguments.
'A simple question do gods exist' is hardly unsolicited provocation. In this day
and age when thousands die every month in opposing religious beleifs and cults, the
question sits firmly in the humanist camp. IMO.
Exactly what provocative statements do you have in mind?
I have always thought of you as an especially logical chap, and am
therefore surpisrised at your repeated mireading of my stance.
I have not contended that any of his "statements" are provocative.
I simply contend that his crossposts are unsolicited.
What posts are solicited??? Where is the Internet rule that posts need to be
'solicited'?
Irrelevant to the fact that my statement was accurate and true.
Post by Bill M
Why don't you just be honest and say you don't like my post. Reasons why
would also be
beneficial.
I actually like the content of your posts, and cannot think of a point
with which I disagree.
You, in common with others, appear to not get the gist of my
objection.
Post by Bill M
Post by Michael Gray
This is supported by objective FACTS, and am at a loss as to why you
have repeatedly misinterpreted my assertion of the plain facts, as
supported by posting logs.
What are these objective FACTS???
Usenet posting records.
Post by Bill M
Post by Michael Gray
Do you actually understand where I am coming from?
Your just dodging and weaving because you can't supply honest replies.
I can supply same, and have done so, and object to the slur on my good
character by the direct implication of dishonesty on my behalf.
Not many get away with that.
In fact: none, who do not retract, or supply evidence for the
accusation.

Please either point out where I have been dishonest, or retract and
apologise for the clear slur on my good character.

I have done nothing but objected to your apparent initiation of cross
posts to non-atheists groups
I have admitted obliquely that this is my personal interpretation of
good 'Usenet manners. One that opens you up (as I see it) to
accusations of stooping to the very low level of the theists' tactics.

Turn down the steam a bit, and re-read what I actually said, please.
Christopher A.Lee
2007-11-25 11:44:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
I know he is. He's also as big an asshole as Puke and all the
cross-posting theists.
Olrik
Bill M
2007-11-25 13:09:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Christopher A.Lee
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
Why are you asking this on an atheist newsgroup, moron?
Do you get your rocks off starting cross-posting flame wars?
Relax, dude. Bill M has been posting for years here in a.a. He's a
genuine atheist. Chill out.
I know he is. He's also as big an asshole as Puke and all the
cross-posting theists.
Olrik
Is this evidence of your intellectual level???
duke
2007-11-24 19:00:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
All are except God almighty.

duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Free Lunch
2007-11-24 19:45:07 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 13:00:05 -0600, in alt.atheism
Post by duke
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
All are except God almighty.
Since that god doesn't seem to exist, I guess that you agree that gods
allow their believers to be conned.
duke
2007-11-28 13:24:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Free Lunch
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 13:00:05 -0600, in alt.atheism
Post by duke
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
All are except God almighty.
Since that god doesn't seem to exist, I guess that you agree that gods
allow their believers to be conned.
Oh, he definitely exists.

duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Bill M
2007-11-28 17:08:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by Free Lunch
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 13:00:05 -0600, in alt.atheism
Post by duke
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
All are except God almighty.
Since that god doesn't seem to exist, I guess that you agree that gods
allow their believers to be conned.
Oh, he definitely exists.
WHERE IS HE? WHERE AND WHAT IS YOUR EVIDENCE???

UNSUBSTANTIATED 'CLAIMS' ARE WORTHLESS AND INDICATE YOU
REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
Post by duke
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Free Lunch
2007-11-29 00:50:04 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:24:49 -0600, in alt.atheism
Post by duke
Post by Free Lunch
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 13:00:05 -0600, in alt.atheism
Post by duke
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
All are except God almighty.
Since that god doesn't seem to exist, I guess that you agree that gods
allow their believers to be conned.
Oh, he definitely exists.
You make that claim a lot, but never offer any evidence.
bob young
2007-11-29 04:33:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Free Lunch
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:24:49 -0600, in alt.atheism
Post by duke
Post by Free Lunch
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 13:00:05 -0600, in alt.atheism
Post by duke
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
All are except God almighty.
Since that god doesn't seem to exist, I guess that you agree that gods
allow their believers to be conned.
Oh, he definitely exists.
You make that claim a lot, but never offer any evidence.
That's because 'He' only exists in his mind.
bob young
2007-11-25 00:46:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
All are except God almighty.
What's 'He' look like Dook?

Don't know.......and he is almighty!

........you are an almighty failure Dook
Post by duke
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Michael Gray
2007-11-24 22:27:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
Millions, in fact.
Possibly billions.
Trillions if one is allowed to dredge the past.
Post by Bill M
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
There are no gods.
Question answered completely and fully.

Next?
MarkA
2007-11-25 01:36:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's pretty clear that IF God is going to send you to Hell for not
believing in Him, as some of His followers claim, and IF said God does not
provide clear and convincing evidence of His existence, THEN said God
cannot be considered "loving", "just", or "merciful." If God is not
loving/just/merciful, He may very well be cruel, petty, and sadistic,
in which case He may send you to Hell even if you DO follow all
the "rules."

ERGO: live your life the way that seems right to YOU, and don't worry
about what other people say God expects of you. If you hold yourself to a
high standard of conduct, you will have nothing to be ashamed of in the
unlikely event that there really is a God who will judge you when you die.
If God punishes people for doing their best, then He is a cruel sadist, in
which case we are all fucked anyway.
--
MarkA
(This space accidentally filled in)
Pastor Frank
2007-11-27 19:55:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by MarkA
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's pretty clear that IF God is going to send you to Hell for not
believing in Him, as some of His followers claim, and IF said God does not
provide clear and convincing evidence of His existence, THEN said God
cannot be considered "loving", "just", or "merciful." If God is not
loving/just/merciful, He may very well be cruel, petty, and sadistic,
in which case He may send you to Hell even if you DO follow all
the "rules."
ERGO: live your life the way that seems right to YOU, and don't worry
about what other people say God expects of you. If you hold yourself to a
high standard of conduct, you will have nothing to be ashamed of in the
unlikely event that there really is a God who will judge you when you die.
If God punishes people for doing their best, then He is a cruel sadist, in
which case we are all fucked anyway.
It's not what YOU do that matters, it is what Christ did FOR YOU that
matters and what saves you.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Bill M
2007-11-27 16:56:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by MarkA
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's pretty clear that IF God is going to send you to Hell for not
believing in Him, as some of His followers claim, and IF said God does not
provide clear and convincing evidence of His existence, THEN said God
cannot be considered "loving", "just", or "merciful." If God is not
loving/just/merciful, He may very well be cruel, petty, and sadistic,
in which case He may send you to Hell even if you DO follow all
the "rules."
ERGO: live your life the way that seems right to YOU, and don't worry
about what other people say God expects of you. If you hold yourself to a
high standard of conduct, you will have nothing to be ashamed of in the
unlikely event that there really is a God who will judge you when you die.
If God punishes people for doing their best, then He is a cruel sadist, in
which case we are all fucked anyway.
It's not what YOU do that matters, it is what Christ did FOR YOU that
matters and what saves you.
What did your imaginary Christ do for me???
Post by Pastor Frank
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
bob young
2007-11-28 03:19:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by MarkA
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's pretty clear that IF God is going to send you to Hell for not
believing in Him, as some of His followers claim, and IF said God does not
provide clear and convincing evidence of His existence, THEN said God
cannot be considered "loving", "just", or "merciful." If God is not
loving/just/merciful, He may very well be cruel, petty, and sadistic,
in which case He may send you to Hell even if you DO follow all
the "rules."
ERGO: live your life the way that seems right to YOU, and don't worry
about what other people say God expects of you. If you hold yourself to a
high standard of conduct, you will have nothing to be ashamed of in the
unlikely event that there really is a God who will judge you when you die.
If God punishes people for doing their best, then He is a cruel sadist, in
which case we are all fucked anyway.
It's not what YOU do that matters, it is what Christ did FOR YOU that
matters and what saves you.
What did your imaginary Christ do for me???
I think we are supposed to use our imagination Bill !
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Bill M
2007-11-28 17:12:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
It's not what YOU do that matters, it is what Christ did FOR YOU that
matters and what saves you.
What did your imaginary Christ do for me???
I think we are supposed to use our imagination Bill !
Religionist base all their claims and proofs on the assumption that there is
there God.

They cannot start out with proof of their God!
Pastor Frank
2007-11-29 03:15:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill M
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
It's not what YOU do that matters, it is what Christ did FOR YOU
that matters and what saves you.
What did your imaginary Christ do for me???
I think we are supposed to use our imagination Bill !
Religionist base all their claims and proofs on the assumption that there
is there God. They cannot start out with proof of their God!
Wrong!!!! There are many existing gods and devils to choose from. Your
god or devil's name is disbelief.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Pastor Frank
2007-11-29 03:10:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by MarkA
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's pretty clear that IF God is going to send you to Hell for not
believing in Him, as some of His followers claim, and IF said God does not
provide clear and convincing evidence of His existence, THEN said God
cannot be considered "loving", "just", or "merciful." If God is not
loving/just/merciful, He may very well be cruel, petty, and sadistic,
in which case He may send you to Hell even if you DO follow all
the "rules."
ERGO: live your life the way that seems right to YOU, and don't worry
about what other people say God expects of you. If you hold yourself to a
high standard of conduct, you will have nothing to be ashamed of in the
unlikely event that there really is a God who will judge you when you die.
If God punishes people for doing their best, then He is a cruel sadist,
in which case we are all fucked anyway.
It's not what YOU do that matters, it is what Christ did FOR YOU that
matters and what saves you.
What did your imaginary Christ do for me???
It is the Father taking your guilt upon Himself.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Free Lunch
2007-11-30 00:31:51 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:10:17 -0500, in alt.atheism
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by MarkA
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's pretty clear that IF God is going to send you to Hell for not
believing in Him, as some of His followers claim, and IF said God does not
provide clear and convincing evidence of His existence, THEN said God
cannot be considered "loving", "just", or "merciful." If God is not
loving/just/merciful, He may very well be cruel, petty, and sadistic,
in which case He may send you to Hell even if you DO follow all
the "rules."
ERGO: live your life the way that seems right to YOU, and don't worry
about what other people say God expects of you. If you hold yourself to a
high standard of conduct, you will have nothing to be ashamed of in the
unlikely event that there really is a God who will judge you when you die.
If God punishes people for doing their best, then He is a cruel sadist,
in which case we are all fucked anyway.
It's not what YOU do that matters, it is what Christ did FOR YOU that
matters and what saves you.
What did your imaginary Christ do for me???
It is the Father taking your guilt upon Himself.
No.
bob young
2007-11-30 05:09:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by MarkA
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's pretty clear that IF God is going to send you to Hell for not
believing in Him, as some of His followers claim, and IF said God does not
provide clear and convincing evidence of His existence, THEN said God
cannot be considered "loving", "just", or "merciful." If God is not
loving/just/merciful, He may very well be cruel, petty, and sadistic,
in which case He may send you to Hell even if you DO follow all
the "rules."
ERGO: live your life the way that seems right to YOU, and don't worry
about what other people say God expects of you. If you hold yourself to a
high standard of conduct, you will have nothing to be ashamed of in the
unlikely event that there really is a God who will judge you when you die.
If God punishes people for doing their best, then He is a cruel sadist,
in which case we are all fucked anyway.
It's not what YOU do that matters, it is what Christ did FOR YOU that
matters and what saves you.
What did your imaginary Christ do for me???
It is the Father taking your guilt upon Himself.
Primitive nonsense
Post by Pastor Frank
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Pastor Frank
2007-11-30 11:40:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by MarkA
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's pretty clear that IF God is going to send you to Hell for not
believing in Him, as some of His followers claim, and IF said God
does
not
provide clear and convincing evidence of His existence, THEN said God
cannot be considered "loving", "just", or "merciful." If God is not
loving/just/merciful, He may very well be cruel, petty, and sadistic,
in which case He may send you to Hell even if you DO follow all
the "rules."
ERGO: live your life the way that seems right to YOU, and don't worry
about what other people say God expects of you. If you hold yourself
to
a
high standard of conduct, you will have nothing to be ashamed of in the
unlikely event that there really is a God who will judge you when you die.
If God punishes people for doing their best, then He is a cruel sadist,
in which case we are all fucked anyway.
It's not what YOU do that matters, it is what Christ did FOR YOU that
matters and what saves you.
What did your imaginary Christ do for me???
It is the Father taking your guilt upon Himself.
Primitive nonsense
Yea! In your world Bob, fathers never take any responsibility for their
children upon themselves. The kid either swims or sinks. "Primitive
nonsense" indeed!!!!
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
MarkA
2007-11-30 12:56:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by MarkA
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's pretty clear that IF God is going to send you to Hell for not
believing in Him, as some of His followers claim, and IF said God
does
not
provide clear and convincing evidence of His existence, THEN said God
cannot be considered "loving", "just", or "merciful." If God is not
loving/just/merciful, He may very well be cruel, petty, and sadistic,
in which case He may send you to Hell even if you DO follow all
the "rules."
ERGO: live your life the way that seems right to YOU, and don't worry
about what other people say God expects of you. If you hold yourself
to
a
high standard of conduct, you will have nothing to be ashamed of in the
unlikely event that there really is a God who will judge you when you die.
If God punishes people for doing their best, then He is a cruel sadist,
in which case we are all fucked anyway.
It's not what YOU do that matters, it is what Christ did FOR YOU that
matters and what saves you.
What did your imaginary Christ do for me???
It is the Father taking your guilt upon Himself.
Primitive nonsense
Yea! In your world Bob, fathers never take any responsibility for their
children upon themselves. The kid either swims or sinks. "Primitive
nonsense" indeed!!!!
So, how does the Father, God, absolve his own guilt for making us prone to
sin, then punishing us for being sinners? He sounds like a real nut case.
Does he have some other god to be HIS scapegoat?

And, how does letting someone else, Jesus in this case, take the
punishment that you deserve, constitute "taking responsibility"? Seems
like just the opposite to me: Jesus is the ultimate patsy, and you are
all OK with that.
--
MarkA
(My OTHER sig line is clever)
Pastor Frank
2007-11-30 18:05:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by MarkA
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by MarkA
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's pretty clear that IF God is going to send you to Hell for not
believing in Him, as some of His followers claim, and IF said God
does
not
provide clear and convincing evidence of His existence, THEN said God
cannot be considered "loving", "just", or "merciful." If God is not
loving/just/merciful, He may very well be cruel, petty, and sadistic,
in which case He may send you to Hell even if you DO follow all
the "rules."
ERGO: live your life the way that seems right to YOU, and don't worry
about what other people say God expects of you. If you hold yourself
to
a
high standard of conduct, you will have nothing to be ashamed of in the
unlikely event that there really is a God who will judge you when
you
die.
If God punishes people for doing their best, then He is a cruel sadist,
in which case we are all fucked anyway.
It's not what YOU do that matters, it is what Christ did FOR YOU that
matters and what saves you.
What did your imaginary Christ do for me???
It is the Father taking your guilt upon Himself.
Primitive nonsense
Yea! In your world Bob, fathers never take any responsibility for their
children upon themselves. The kid either swims or sinks. "Primitive
nonsense" indeed!!!!
So, how does the Father, God, absolve his own guilt for making us prone to
sin, then punishing us for being sinners? He sounds like a real nut case.
Does he have some other god to be HIS scapegoat?
And, how does letting someone else, Jesus in this case, take the
punishment that you deserve, constitute "taking responsibility"? Seems
like just the opposite to me: Jesus is the ultimate patsy, and you are
all OK with that.
The god or devil of your definition doesn't exist. Jesus IS our God
incarnate.
You believe in evolution, don't you? Can't you see that all of creation is
in the process of perfection and that God, the ideal of perfection is
therefore eternally in the process of becoming?
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
bob young
2007-12-01 04:39:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by MarkA
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by MarkA
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's pretty clear that IF God is going to send you to Hell for not
believing in Him, as some of His followers claim, and IF said God
does
not
provide clear and convincing evidence of His existence, THEN said God
cannot be considered "loving", "just", or "merciful." If God is not
loving/just/merciful, He may very well be cruel, petty, and sadistic,
in which case He may send you to Hell even if you DO follow all
the "rules."
ERGO: live your life the way that seems right to YOU, and don't worry
about what other people say God expects of you. If you hold yourself
to
a
high standard of conduct, you will have nothing to be ashamed of in the
unlikely event that there really is a God who will judge you when
you
die.
If God punishes people for doing their best, then He is a cruel sadist,
in which case we are all fucked anyway.
It's not what YOU do that matters, it is what Christ did FOR YOU that
matters and what saves you.
What did your imaginary Christ do for me???
It is the Father taking your guilt upon Himself.
Primitive nonsense
Yea! In your world Bob, fathers never take any responsibility for their
children upon themselves. The kid either swims or sinks. "Primitive
nonsense" indeed!!!!
So, how does the Father, God, absolve his own guilt for making us prone to
sin, then punishing us for being sinners? He sounds like a real nut case.
Does he have some other god to be HIS scapegoat?
And, how does letting someone else, Jesus in this case, take the
punishment that you deserve, constitute "taking responsibility"? Seems
like just the opposite to me: Jesus is the ultimate patsy, and you are
all OK with that.
The god or devil of your definition doesn't exist. Jesus IS our God
incarnate.
You believe in evolution, don't you? Can't you see that all of creation is
in the process of perfection and that God, the ideal of perfection is
therefore eternally in the process of becoming?
Evolution - perfection? what are you Frank blind?

There would not be space here to list the screw ups due to the random process
of evolution.

If evolution were 'perfection' there would be no mentally insane, no freak
births.....etc...the list is as endless as evolution itself.

It is so random, in fact, that science claims almost every day some species or
other dies out.

Our turn will come and then all the wailing to gods will be in vain.
Post by Pastor Frank
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Pastor Frank
2007-12-01 07:10:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
The god or devil of your definition doesn't exist. Jesus IS our God
incarnate.
You believe in evolution, don't you? Can't you see that all of creation is
in the process of perfection and that God, the ideal of perfection is
therefore eternally in the process of becoming?
Evolution - perfection? what are you Frank blind?
There would not be space here to list the screw ups due to the random process
of evolution.
If evolution were 'perfection' there would be no mentally insane, no freak
births.....etc...the list is as endless as evolution itself.
It is so random, in fact, that science claims almost every day some species or
other dies out.
Our turn will come and then all the wailing to gods will be in vain.
That's devolution. I was talking about evolution. But you sure know how
to complain about everything no matter what.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
bob young
2007-12-02 04:21:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
The god or devil of your definition doesn't exist. Jesus IS our God
incarnate.
You believe in evolution, don't you? Can't you see that all of creation is
in the process of perfection and that God, the ideal of perfection is
therefore eternally in the process of becoming?
Evolution - perfection? what are you Frank blind?
There would not be space here to list the screw ups due to the random process
of evolution.
If evolution were 'perfection' there would be no mentally insane, no freak
births.....etc...the list is as endless as evolution itself.
It is so random, in fact, that science claims almost every day some species or
other dies out.
Our turn will come and then all the wailing to gods will be in vain.
That's devolution. I was talking about evolution. But you sure know how
to complain about everything no matter what.
Wow what skill you have Frank in dodging and avoiding rather than facing
headlong any challenge to your myths.

I guess it is the only alternative you have, rather than face facts.

OXFORD DICTIONARY Devolve - throw tasks from one's back.
Devolution - transfer of business from parliament.

Yes Frank i think it's time for me to take another holiday, you get more
painful by the day

I have something better to do with my time. [Read Twain below - it remonds me
of a you]

Religious meaning is an exercise in futility and self-deception. There is no
religion worth honoring other than one based in actual knowledge instead of
primitive, tribal superstitions. People who need superstition to get these
things are in need of something more than fantasies like Christianity. They
need to address their lack of critical thinking. There is nothing logical
about Christianity. It makes little sense and brags few intellectual heroes.
[anon]


In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every
case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have
not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at
second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions
about them were not worth a brass farthing.
[Mark Twain]
Post by Pastor Frank
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
MarkA
2007-12-01 18:09:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by MarkA
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by MarkA
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's pretty clear that IF God is going to send you to Hell for not
believing in Him, as some of His followers claim, and IF said God
does
not
provide clear and convincing evidence of His existence, THEN said God
cannot be considered "loving", "just", or "merciful." If God is not
loving/just/merciful, He may very well be cruel, petty, and sadistic,
in which case He may send you to Hell even if you DO follow all
the "rules."
ERGO: live your life the way that seems right to YOU, and don't worry
about what other people say God expects of you. If you hold yourself
to
a
high standard of conduct, you will have nothing to be ashamed of in the
unlikely event that there really is a God who will judge you when
you
die.
If God punishes people for doing their best, then He is a cruel sadist,
in which case we are all fucked anyway.
It's not what YOU do that matters, it is what Christ did FOR YOU that
matters and what saves you.
What did your imaginary Christ do for me???
It is the Father taking your guilt upon Himself.
Primitive nonsense
Yea! In your world Bob, fathers never take any responsibility for their
children upon themselves. The kid either swims or sinks. "Primitive
nonsense" indeed!!!!
So, how does the Father, God, absolve his own guilt for making us prone to
sin, then punishing us for being sinners? He sounds like a real nut case.
Does he have some other god to be HIS scapegoat?
And, how does letting someone else, Jesus in this case, take the
punishment that you deserve, constitute "taking responsibility"? Seems
like just the opposite to me: Jesus is the ultimate patsy, and you are
all OK with that.
The god or devil of your definition doesn't exist. Jesus IS our God
incarnate.
Sorry, my mistake. I assumed your religion was based on the Bible.
Apparently, I'm mistaken.
Post by Pastor Frank
You believe in evolution, don't you? Can't you see that all of creation
is in the process of perfection and that God, the ideal of perfection is
therefore eternally in the process of becoming?
Actually, no, I don't see that at all.
--
MarkA
(This space accidentally filled in)
bob young
2007-12-01 04:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by MarkA
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by MarkA
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's pretty clear that IF God is going to send you to Hell for not
believing in Him, as some of His followers claim, and IF said God
does
not
provide clear and convincing evidence of His existence, THEN said God
cannot be considered "loving", "just", or "merciful." If God is not
loving/just/merciful, He may very well be cruel, petty, and sadistic,
in which case He may send you to Hell even if you DO follow all
the "rules."
ERGO: live your life the way that seems right to YOU, and don't worry
about what other people say God expects of you. If you hold yourself
to
a
high standard of conduct, you will have nothing to be ashamed of in the
unlikely event that there really is a God who will judge you when you die.
If God punishes people for doing their best, then He is a cruel sadist,
in which case we are all fucked anyway.
It's not what YOU do that matters, it is what Christ did FOR YOU that
matters and what saves you.
What did your imaginary Christ do for me???
It is the Father taking your guilt upon Himself.
Primitive nonsense
Yea! In your world Bob, fathers never take any responsibility for their
children upon themselves. The kid either swims or sinks. "Primitive
nonsense" indeed!!!!
So, how does the Father, God, absolve his own guilt for making us prone to
sin, then punishing us for being sinners? He sounds like a real nut case.
Not surprising as the whole myth was made up by early middle eastern goat and
sheep herders
Post by MarkA
Does he have some other god to be HIS scapegoat?
And, how does letting someone else, Jesus in this case, take the
punishment that you deserve, constitute "taking responsibility"? Seems
like just the opposite to me: Jesus is the ultimate patsy, and you are
all OK with that.
--
MarkA
(My OTHER sig line is clever)
Pastor Frank
2007-12-01 07:07:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by MarkA
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by MarkA
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's pretty clear that IF God is going to send you to Hell for not
believing in Him, as some of His followers claim, and IF said God
does
not
provide clear and convincing evidence of His existence, THEN said God
cannot be considered "loving", "just", or "merciful." If God is not
loving/just/merciful, He may very well be cruel, petty, and sadistic,
in which case He may send you to Hell even if you DO follow all
the "rules."
ERGO: live your life the way that seems right to YOU, and don't worry
about what other people say God expects of you. If you hold yourself
to
a
high standard of conduct, you will have nothing to be ashamed of
in
the
unlikely event that there really is a God who will judge you when
you
die.
If God punishes people for doing their best, then He is a cruel sadist,
in which case we are all fucked anyway.
It's not what YOU do that matters, it is what Christ did FOR
YOU
that
matters and what saves you.
What did your imaginary Christ do for me???
It is the Father taking your guilt upon Himself.
Primitive nonsense
Yea! In your world Bob, fathers never take any responsibility for their
children upon themselves. The kid either swims or sinks. "Primitive
nonsense" indeed!!!!
So, how does the Father, God, absolve his own guilt for making us prone to
sin, then punishing us for being sinners? He sounds like a real nut case.
Not surprising as the whole myth was made up by early middle eastern goat and
sheep herders
There you go again with your bigotry Bob!! Show that those "early middle
eastern goat and
sheep herders" you look down on so much are devoid of wisdom and the
knowledge of what is right, proper and virtuous, or that those virtues can
only be the product of modern science.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
MarkA
2007-12-03 13:15:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by MarkA
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by MarkA
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so
terribly
misled?
It's pretty clear that IF God is going to send you to Hell for not
believing in Him, as some of His followers claim, and IF said God
does
not
provide clear and convincing evidence of His existence, THEN said God
cannot be considered "loving", "just", or "merciful." If God is not
loving/just/merciful, He may very well be cruel, petty, and sadistic,
in which case He may send you to Hell even if you DO follow all
the "rules."
ERGO: live your life the way that seems right to YOU, and don't worry
about what other people say God expects of you. If you hold yourself
to
a
high standard of conduct, you will have nothing to be ashamed of
in
the
unlikely event that there really is a God who will judge you when
you
die.
If God punishes people for doing their best, then He is a cruel sadist,
in which case we are all fucked anyway.
It's not what YOU do that matters, it is what Christ did FOR
YOU
that
matters and what saves you.
What did your imaginary Christ do for me???
It is the Father taking your guilt upon Himself.
Primitive nonsense
Yea! In your world Bob, fathers never take any responsibility for their
children upon themselves. The kid either swims or sinks. "Primitive
nonsense" indeed!!!!
So, how does the Father, God, absolve his own guilt for making us prone to
sin, then punishing us for being sinners? He sounds like a real nut case.
Not surprising as the whole myth was made up by early middle eastern goat and
sheep herders
There you go again with your bigotry Bob!! Show that those "early middle
eastern goat and
sheep herders" you look down on so much are devoid of wisdom and the
knowledge of what is right, proper and virtuous, or that those virtues can
only be the product of modern science.
My, what a lovely straw man you have, there, Frank. Did it take long to
build?

The Bronze Age goat herders were plenty wise *in their day*, that is why
their writings have survived. However, we have learned a *few* new things
in the ensuing 4,000 years. Some of us have, at least. Others,
curiously, are *proud* to reject any information that is more recent than
that.
--
MarkA
(My OTHER sig line is clever)
MarkA
2007-11-27 23:03:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by MarkA
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's pretty clear that IF God is going to send you to Hell for not
believing in Him, as some of His followers claim, and IF said God does not
provide clear and convincing evidence of His existence, THEN said God
cannot be considered "loving", "just", or "merciful." If God is not
loving/just/merciful, He may very well be cruel, petty, and sadistic,
in which case He may send you to Hell even if you DO follow all
the "rules."
ERGO: live your life the way that seems right to YOU, and don't worry
about what other people say God expects of you. If you hold yourself to a
high standard of conduct, you will have nothing to be ashamed of in the
unlikely event that there really is a God who will judge you when you die.
If God punishes people for doing their best, then He is a cruel sadist, in
which case we are all fucked anyway.
It's not what YOU do that matters, it is what Christ did FOR YOU that
matters and what saves you.
Apparently, you did not understand a single word of what I said. In that
case, you are right: do what others tell you, and make it a point not to
question them.
--
MarkA
(My OTHER sig line is clever)
Broderick Crawford
2007-11-25 17:53:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's a made up Jew plot to take over the world. Jesus was a Jew, the
Jews thought the whole damn thing up way back in the first century.
All gods are made up hoaxes.
Pastor Frank
2007-11-27 20:35:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Broderick Crawford
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's a made up Jew plot to take over the world. Jesus was a Jew, the
Jews thought the whole damn thing up way back in the first century.
All gods are made up hoaxes.
That applies only to the "god(s)" of your definition, probably some
invisible, created and material entity. Our Christian God is an uncreated
and eternal value.

Pastor Frank

Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We
therefore know our God and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
Atheists don't know our God and therefore cannot see Him, (Jesus in
John 3:3)
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Bill M
2007-11-27 16:59:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Broderick Crawford
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's a made up Jew plot to take over the world. Jesus was a Jew, the
Jews thought the whole damn thing up way back in the first century.
All gods are made up hoaxes.
That applies only to the "god(s)" of your definition, probably some
invisible, created and material entity. Our Christian God is an uncreated
and eternal value.
Pastor Frank
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We
therefore know our God and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
This is love???



Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Floods,
Wars, Earth Quakes, Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and
serious body malfunctions? There are 12,000 known diseases that affect and
punish mankind indiscriminately. Why does he permit millions of both young
and old to starve to death or die of miserable diseases? Why punish millions
of INNOCENT CHILDREN in this horrible way?


Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally "innocent children"
to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed
brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and
others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others
pauper poor? Why does he permit over 2,000,000 innocent children to die of
starvation every year? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate
into a miserable and devastating old age regardless of their religious
affiliation?



God supposedly created the world like it is, to punish man for Adam and Eve's
'original sin'. Why does he also punish supposedly innocent children and
animals with thousands of diseases, birth defects, starvation and to be
eaten by other animals?



Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, wolves, poisonous snakes,
stinging and poisonous insects, poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring
and benevolent god create animals (including man) that need to painfully
kill and eat other animals to survive?



World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.

World II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all
ages and religious faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more
millions maimed for life.

The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed the lives of 200,000 men, women and
children of all religious persuasions. Over 100,000 of these were totally
INNOCENT children!

There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th.
and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and
totally innocent children.

The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and
innocent children indiscriminately.



Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions
indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and
malnutrition.

These indiscriminately afflicted the young and old, atheists and those of
all religious persuasions.



Meanwhile MAN, not god, has developed defenses and cures for hundreds of
serious diseases. Man has learned to create shelter, heat and cooling,
purify water, world wide electronic communications, power and transportation
systems including flying through the air.

Man has created a wonderful medical and drug system and improved housing and
food production. The result of MAN'S inventiveness has

DOUBLED the average life span. None of this was created by any gods.


Perhaps your loving and caring god is actually a cruel, heartless, mean and
torturing tyrant. If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you think
he will let us enjoy peace and eternal happiness in his Heaven? And why does
he keep all this a secret by preventing communication with our dead parents,
siblings and friends? (Or this god?)



There are thousands of different religious and god beliefs but NO OJECTIVE
VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE for the actual existence of ANY of these gods. ALL god
beliefs are based on the unsubstantiated 'opinions and claims of errant men.



If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent god. Nor is he an "Intelligent Designer". The
objective evidence is if there is a god creator, he has NO concern about the
welfare of the creatures on Earth.



The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the opposite;
that man created gods!



I challenge god believers to supply ANY objective verifiable evidence that
their god actually exists except in their over active imaginations.



Who will accept the challenge???
les_on_usenet
2007-11-28 11:18:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Broderick Crawford
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's a made up Jew plot to take over the world. Jesus was a Jew, the
Jews thought the whole damn thing up way back in the first century.
All gods are made up hoaxes.
That applies only to the "god(s)" of your definition, probably some
invisible, created and material entity. Our Christian God is an uncreated
and eternal value.
Pastor Frank
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We
therefore know our God and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
This is love???
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Floods,
Wars, Earth Quakes, Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and
serious body malfunctions? There are 12,000 known diseases that affect and
punish mankind indiscriminately. Why does he permit millions of both young
and old to starve to death or die of miserable diseases? Why punish millions
of INNOCENT CHILDREN in this horrible way?
You are clearly misunderstanding PF here Bill. You need to read
exactly what he is saying. He would consider the god you describe
above as a 'god of our definition' though he confuses us with
Christians here as they invented and defned this god not us.

What you say is correct if this claimed god of theirs actually exists
but this is not the same god PF talks about.

If you read what he actually says he is telling you his god is an
emotion (love) and a human value or ideal to aim for not a real
being as invented by Christians. In more than one post he tells us
his god is imaginary and does not exist 'out there' as the likes
of Duke and other Christians claim. You have to recognise
that there are different types of Christian and some, like
Frank, do not base it in on a beleve in a real god some where
'out there'. No magic space pixie involved.


His quote from the Bible mentions that whilst he can see his
god we cannot. This is a somewhat obvious statement as only
he can see what he is imagining.

Quite why he wishes to elevate human emotion and human values
annd ideals to the status of a gods is the thing that puzzles me
about PF.
Post by Bill M
The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the opposite;
that man created gods!
That is exactly what he is telling you.
Post by Bill M
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary.
Nothing there about it actually existing: This is a very clear
statement: 'Our Christian god is AN EMOTION' one that is shared by
all higher social animals where offspring require long term nurturing
in a stable protective environment before it ceases to be dependant.

Emotions cannot create planets especially as there was no humans
around at the time to love a planet into existence
Post by Bill M
We
therefore know our God and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
Ony we can imagine our god. (only we elevate love to the status of
a god??)
Post by Bill M
Atheists don't know our God and therefore cannot see Him,
I cannot possibly see his imagination so I cannot see his love. That
part is true as he only ever shows hatred towards us.

As far as human emotions, ideals and values are concerned
he seems one very confused person. I have never come across
anybody before who elevates them to the status of gods then
venerates and worships them as if they are supernatural
beings. Very strange.



Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
Bill M
2007-11-28 17:20:22 UTC
Permalink
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.

From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Broderick Crawford
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's a made up Jew plot to take over the world. Jesus was a Jew, the
Jews thought the whole damn thing up way back in the first century.
All gods are made up hoaxes.
That applies only to the "god(s)" of your definition, probably some
invisible, created and material entity. Our Christian God is an uncreated
and eternal value.
Pastor Frank
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We
therefore know our God and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
This is love???
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Floods,
Wars, Earth Quakes, Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and
serious body malfunctions? There are 12,000 known diseases that affect and
punish mankind indiscriminately. Why does he permit millions of both young
and old to starve to death or die of miserable diseases? Why punish millions
of INNOCENT CHILDREN in this horrible way?
You are clearly misunderstanding PF here Bill. You need to read
exactly what he is saying. He would consider the god you describe
above as a 'god of our definition' though he confuses us with
Christians here as they invented and defned this god not us.
What you say is correct if this claimed god of theirs actually exists
but this is not the same god PF talks about.
If you read what he actually says he is telling you his god is an
emotion (love) and a human value or ideal to aim for not a real
being as invented by Christians. In more than one post he tells us
his god is imaginary and does not exist 'out there' as the likes
of Duke and other Christians claim. You have to recognise
that there are different types of Christian and some, like
Frank, do not base it in on a beleve in a real god some where
'out there'. No magic space pixie involved.
His quote from the Bible mentions that whilst he can see his
god we cannot. This is a somewhat obvious statement as only
he can see what he is imagining.
Quite why he wishes to elevate human emotion and human values
annd ideals to the status of a gods is the thing that puzzles me
about PF.
Post by Bill M
The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the opposite;
that man created gods!
That is exactly what he is telling you.
Post by Bill M
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary.
Nothing there about it actually existing: This is a very clear
statement: 'Our Christian god is AN EMOTION' one that is shared by
all higher social animals where offspring require long term nurturing
in a stable protective environment before it ceases to be dependant.
Emotions cannot create planets especially as there was no humans
around at the time to love a planet into existence
Post by Bill M
We
therefore know our God and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
Ony we can imagine our god. (only we elevate love to the status of
a god??)
Post by Bill M
Atheists don't know our God and therefore cannot see Him,
I cannot possibly see his imagination so I cannot see his love. That
part is true as he only ever shows hatred towards us.
As far as human emotions, ideals and values are concerned
he seems one very confused person. I have never come across
anybody before who elevates them to the status of gods then
venerates and worships them as if they are supernatural
beings. Very strange.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
bob young
2007-11-29 04:39:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF did not
use eighteen months ago.

his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.

As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so if
he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?

Over to you PF.
Post by Bill M
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by Bill M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Broderick Crawford
Post by Bill M
There are thousands of different God beliefs.
If there is a real God why would it permit his flock to be so terribly
misled?
It's a made up Jew plot to take over the world. Jesus was a Jew, the
Jews thought the whole damn thing up way back in the first century.
All gods are made up hoaxes.
That applies only to the "god(s)" of your definition, probably some
invisible, created and material entity. Our Christian God is an uncreated
and eternal value.
Pastor Frank
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We
therefore know our God and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
This is love???
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Floods,
Wars, Earth Quakes, Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and
serious body malfunctions? There are 12,000 known diseases that affect and
punish mankind indiscriminately. Why does he permit millions of both young
and old to starve to death or die of miserable diseases? Why punish millions
of INNOCENT CHILDREN in this horrible way?
You are clearly misunderstanding PF here Bill. You need to read
exactly what he is saying. He would consider the god you describe
above as a 'god of our definition' though he confuses us with
Christians here as they invented and defned this god not us.
What you say is correct if this claimed god of theirs actually exists
but this is not the same god PF talks about.
If you read what he actually says he is telling you his god is an
emotion (love) and a human value or ideal to aim for not a real
being as invented by Christians. In more than one post he tells us
his god is imaginary and does not exist 'out there' as the likes
of Duke and other Christians claim. You have to recognise
that there are different types of Christian and some, like
Frank, do not base it in on a beleve in a real god some where
'out there'. No magic space pixie involved.
His quote from the Bible mentions that whilst he can see his
god we cannot. This is a somewhat obvious statement as only
he can see what he is imagining.
Quite why he wishes to elevate human emotion and human values
annd ideals to the status of a gods is the thing that puzzles me
about PF.
Post by Bill M
The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the opposite;
that man created gods!
That is exactly what he is telling you.
Post by Bill M
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary.
Nothing there about it actually existing: This is a very clear
statement: 'Our Christian god is AN EMOTION' one that is shared by
all higher social animals where offspring require long term nurturing
in a stable protective environment before it ceases to be dependant.
Emotions cannot create planets especially as there was no humans
around at the time to love a planet into existence
Post by Bill M
We
therefore know our God and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
Ony we can imagine our god. (only we elevate love to the status of
a god??)
Post by Bill M
Atheists don't know our God and therefore cannot see Him,
I cannot possibly see his imagination so I cannot see his love. That
part is true as he only ever shows hatred towards us.
As far as human emotions, ideals and values are concerned
he seems one very confused person. I have never come across
anybody before who elevates them to the status of gods then
venerates and worships them as if they are supernatural
beings. Very strange.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
les_on_usenet
2007-11-29 11:05:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
PF is one confused person and his language very obtuse being couched
in religious terminology. A fog that is hard to penetrate.
Post by bob young
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF did not
use eighteen months ago.
Yes I agree.
Post by bob young
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
Yes to some extent though I suspect his acceptance that his god is
imaginary is a genuine realisation. All he ever saw about his god is
that it was love.

A long time ago he said he disregarded the OT and did not recognise
its god as real. He is only concerned with Jesus. I suspect that his
belief is that when Jesus died he was 'ressurected' not as a real
god but as an ideal 'in our hearts' to follow and that ideal is love.
Post by bob young
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so if
he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?
Yes indeed . This is where I think he is still confused. He cannot
claim his god is just imagination then at the same time claim it
created planets and people. Only something actually existing 'out
there' can do that.

and if he disregards the OT where does his notion of original
sin come from?
Post by bob young
Over to you PF.
Pastor Frank
2007-11-29 17:50:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF did not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so if
he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
les_on_usenet
2007-11-29 23:41:01 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:50:13 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF did not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so if
he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
Nah, this is ambiguous


Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
bob young
2007-11-30 05:13:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF did not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so if
he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]


Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in common, a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'

What a waster
Post by Pastor Frank
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
les_on_usenet
2007-11-30 11:56:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF did not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so if
he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in common, a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.

This above passage of his is quite a puzzler:

"Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. "

So, he is telling us his God is an evolved human emotion we all
share (well most of are capable of love even though it is
dormant in some)

Incarnate means 'become man'

So he is saying that a human emotion (love) became a human called
Jesus.

Does this make any sense to you? It makes none to me.

Heck humans have expressed love ever since we emerged as a
separate species over 100,00 years ago. You can see it
in the eye of every proud mother with her new born baby.
She would sacrifice her own life to protect it. That applies to all
the higher mammals too it is in our genes. We need no mythical
Jesus to show or teach us us that.



Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
Michael Gray
2007-11-30 13:06:02 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:56:42 +0000, les_on_usenet
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF did not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so if
he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in common, a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
"Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. "
So, he is telling us his God is an evolved human emotion we all
share (well most of are capable of love even though it is
dormant in some)
Incarnate means 'become man'
Incarnate means "becomes flesh"
Post by les_on_usenet
So he is saying that a human emotion (love) became a human called
Jesus.
Does this make any sense to you? It makes none to me.
Heck humans have expressed love ever since we emerged as a
separate species over 100,00 years ago. You can see it
in the eye of every proud mother with her new born baby.
She would sacrifice her own life to protect it. That applies to all
the higher mammals too it is in our genes. We need no mythical
Jesus to show or teach us us that.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
Pastor Frank
2007-11-30 18:18:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Gray
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:56:42 +0000, les_on_usenet
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words.
Either
that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which
PF did
not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his
god
exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have
done so
if
he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in common, a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
"Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. "
So, he is telling us his God is an evolved human emotion we all
share (well most of are capable of love even though it is
dormant in some)
Incarnate means 'become man'
Incarnate means "becomes flesh"
Or the ideal become reality.
Post by Michael Gray
Post by les_on_usenet
So he is saying that a human emotion (love) became a human called
Jesus.
Only atheists will believe in love as an emotion, we Christians will
only believe, when that emotion is evidenced in loving and caring action.
Gods or devils are the ideals and their human manifestation we want to live
up to, and the ideal of maximum love and care is Christ, who gave His life
for the love of us, ...and not only for those who deserve to be loved.
Post by Michael Gray
Post by les_on_usenet
Does this make any sense to you? It makes none to me.
Heck humans have expressed love ever since we emerged as a
separate species over 100,00 years ago. You can see it
in the eye of every proud mother with her new born baby.
She would sacrifice her own life to protect it. That applies to all
the higher mammals too it is in our genes. We need no mythical
Jesus to show or teach us us that.
Do you really believe exhortation and demonstration of loving and
caring for others are unnecessary? Only the human species kill each other in
massive numbers.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
bob young
2007-12-01 04:54:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Michael Gray
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:56:42 +0000, les_on_usenet
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words.
Either
that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which
PF did
not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his
god
exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have
done so
if
he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in common, a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
"Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. "
So, he is telling us his God is an evolved human emotion we all
share (well most of are capable of love even though it is
dormant in some)
Incarnate means 'become man'
Incarnate means "becomes flesh"
Or the ideal become reality.
Post by Michael Gray
Post by les_on_usenet
So he is saying that a human emotion (love) became a human called
Jesus.
Only atheists will believe in love as an emotion, we Christians will
only believe, when that emotion is evidenced in loving and caring action.
Drivel
Post by Pastor Frank
Gods or devils are the ideals and their human manifestation we want to live
up to, and the ideal of maximum love and care is Christ, who gave His life
for the love of us, ...and not only for those who deserve to be loved.
As I pointed out before Frank, if you believe and subscribe all of these
you are one step away from the nearest padded cell

Wizards,
satans,
devils,
lucifers,
ghouls,
evil spirits,
diabolous,
Auld Hornies,
fiends,
seraphims,
Old Nicks,
dragons,
leprachauns,
fairies,
wood nymphs,
fiends, elves, ghouls and/or vampires
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Michael Gray
Post by les_on_usenet
Does this make any sense to you? It makes none to me.
Heck humans have expressed love ever since we emerged as a
separate species over 100,00 years ago. You can see it
in the eye of every proud mother with her new born baby.
She would sacrifice her own life to protect it. That applies to all
the higher mammals too it is in our genes. We need no mythical
Jesus to show or teach us us that.
Do you really believe exhortation and demonstration of loving and
caring for others are unnecessary?
He didn't say that you disingenious fool
Post by Pastor Frank
Only the human species kill each other in
massive numbers.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
bob young
2007-12-01 04:47:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Gray
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:56:42 +0000, les_on_usenet
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF did not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so if
he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in common, a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
"Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. "
So, he is telling us his God is an evolved human emotion we all
share (well most of are capable of love even though it is
dormant in some)
Incarnate means 'become man'
Incarnate means "becomes flesh"
Another impossibility. Flesh is only derived from copulation, pregnancy followed
by the birth process in the womb.

Religions rely heavily on 'weird phrases' we must make a list of them some time.
Post by Michael Gray
Post by les_on_usenet
So he is saying that a human emotion (love) became a human called
Jesus.
Does this make any sense to you? It makes none to me.
Heck humans have expressed love ever since we emerged as a
separate species over 100,00 years ago. You can see it
in the eye of every proud mother with her new born baby.
She would sacrifice her own life to protect it. That applies to all
the higher mammals too it is in our genes. We need no mythical
Jesus to show or teach us us that.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
les_on_usenet
2007-12-01 11:49:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by Michael Gray
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:56:42 +0000, les_on_usenet
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF did
not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god
exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so if
he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in common, a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
"Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. "
So, he is telling us his God is an evolved human emotion we all
share (well most of are capable of love even though it is
dormant in some)
Incarnate means 'become man'
Incarnate means "becomes flesh"
"Becomes flesh" is just the over dramatic way they mean ' man'.
(baby first of course).

They always like to dramatise things with colourful phrases like
that.
Post by bob young
Another impossibility. Flesh is only derived from copulation, pregnancy followed
by the birth process in the womb.
Religions rely heavily on 'weird phrases' we must make a list of them some time.
Christospeak. I doubt even they fully understand what they say. They
use it because it sounds good. They never put things in plain English
I gues because it will just look as silly as it really is.

This god turning into man (as Jesus) thing is one of those things that
has divided Christianity in the past.

Did this god turn entirely into man ie god was no longer god? If
you have the ability to perform miracles, come alive after death
and become god again you are not entirely man but still a god.

Did this god not turn into man but merely created another man
(baby first of course) which it steeered towards its death and
then brought this man back to life briefly?This Jesus in heaven. Is it
supernatural in some way or just like any other man dead and
in heaven. Maybe it even went to hell for not confessng its
sins to a local catholic priest (there wasn't any then to
confess too of course) before he 'ascended' (another
dramatic way of saying he dropped dead - the current phrase
is 'passed away')

Is this Holy ghost just a kind of shape-shifted god or an
entirely separate being?

There are just too many uanswered ifs and buts about this
unexplained myth of theirs and quite frankly I doubt they really
know exactly what it is they are believing either nor do they
seem to care anymore. They slaughtered one another in the past over
these ifs and buts maybe they have learned, "Don't ask!"

THmm better not to open this can of worms and get them at
one anothers throats again. It is bad enough as it is.

Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
bob young
2007-12-02 04:31:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Michael Gray
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:56:42 +0000, les_on_usenet
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either
that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF did
not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god
exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best
thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if
he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in common, a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
"Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. "
So, he is telling us his God is an evolved human emotion we all
share (well most of are capable of love even though it is
dormant in some)
Incarnate means 'become man'
Incarnate means "becomes flesh"
"Becomes flesh" is just the over dramatic way they mean ' man'.
(baby first of course).
They always like to dramatise things with colourful phrases like
that.
Post by bob young
Another impossibility. Flesh is only derived from copulation, pregnancy followed
by the birth process in the womb.
Religions rely heavily on 'weird phrases' we must make a list of them some time.
Christospeak. I doubt even they fully understand what they say. They
use it because it sounds good. They never put things in plain English
I gues because it will just look as silly as it really is.
There seems to be a weird idea that the gobledeeghook provides some kind of factuality
Post by les_on_usenet
This god turning into man (as Jesus) thing is one of those things that
has divided Christianity in the past.
Did this god turn entirely into man ie god was no longer god? If
you have the ability to perform miracles, come alive after death
and become god again you are not entirely man but still a god.
The story was possibly written in frustration on being asked so many times to produce
the god which, in those days, they claimed lived just above the clouds. Since then
science caused them to modify the story which, in turn has weakened it.

If the actual originating date of this story were ever known I think we would all be
surprised to find it was written many centuries after the 'claimed life' of The Late
J.C.
Post by les_on_usenet
Did this god not turn into man but merely created another man
(baby first of course) which it steeered towards its death and
then brought this man back to life briefly?
From the cradle to age around twenty, nothing written. Points strongly to a myth
writer not thinking things through before he put quill to parchment, if you ask me.
Post by les_on_usenet
This Jesus in heaven. Is it
supernatural in some way or just like any other man dead and
in heaven. Maybe it even went to hell for not confessng its
sins to a local catholic priest (there wasn't any then to
confess too of course) before he 'ascended' (another
dramatic way of saying he dropped dead - the current phrase
is 'passed away')
Is this Holy ghost just a kind of shape-shifted god or an
entirely separate being?
IMO The Trinity is simply another take of the age old and very common human adage that

'three is more believable than one'
Post by les_on_usenet
There are just too many uanswered ifs and buts about this
unexplained myth of theirs and quite frankly I doubt they really
know exactly what it is they are believing either nor do they
seem to care anymore. They slaughtered one another in the past over
these ifs and buts maybe they have learned, "Don't ask!"
THmm better not to open this can of worms and get them at
one anothers throats again. It is bad enough as it is.
We live in hope Les, but I reckon theres more to come. [as long as they don't come to
my back door with it.........!]

Bob
Hong kong
Post by les_on_usenet
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
Pastor Frank
2007-11-30 14:56:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF
did
not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have
done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a
god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in common, a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
All on automatic instinct? Unfortunately not among humans, who are the
only ones killing their own species with abandon. We need not only constant
reminders to be loving and caring of others but examples like Christ
demonstrating love and care, ...to the death if need be.
Post by les_on_usenet
"Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. "
So, he is telling us his God is an evolved human emotion we all
share (well most of are capable of love even though it is
dormant in some)
Incarnate means 'become man'
So he is saying that a human emotion (love) became a human called
Jesus.
Does this make any sense to you? It makes none to me.
Heck humans have expressed love ever since we emerged as a
separate species over 100,00 years ago. You can see it
in the eye of every proud mother with her new born baby.
She would sacrifice her own life to protect it. That applies to all
the higher mammals too it is in our genes. We need no mythical
Jesus to show or teach us us that.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
les_on_usenet
2007-11-30 20:35:26 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:56:05 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF
did
not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have
done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a
god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in common, a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
All on automatic instinct? Unfortunately not among humans, who are the
only ones killing their own species with abandon. We need not only constant
reminders to be loving and caring of others but examples like Christ
demonstrating love and care, ...to the death if need be.
Yes by instinct but also by intelligence and understanding. Only
religion perverts and debases it in the name of their claimed gods.

You Christians foster division and hatred between peoples and
the most fervent believers of the lot fly airplanes for love of
their god screaming it is great as they do. There was one of your
mob attacking catholics in the newsgroup only yesterday simply
because they choose to express their Christianity in a different
way. Yet more division and hatred fostered instead of seeking
reconciliation.

but you are right we need to keep reminding people that cooperation is
better than division and you foster that by looking for the
good in people and praising and building on that rrather than
constantly seeking to denegrate and tear them down as you do
simply because we do not share your belief as is our right.

Only you would look for the worst in us instead of recognising that
most of the world is living mostly in peace and harmony. Why did you
not choose instead to mention that we have now had peace in
Europe for the longest period in our entire history and cooperate in
ways undreamed of a Century ago? As a result we are more
prosperous than ever before. We even have a European
Parliament from which common political parties are starting
to emerge.

We are not the only people at peace and cooperating together
for greater prosperity either. Warfare and conflict is the
abberation now in this world.
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
"Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. "
So, he is telling us his God is an evolved human emotion we all
share (well most of are capable of love even though it is
dormant in some)
Incarnate means 'become man'
So he is saying that a human emotion (love) became a human called
Jesus.
Does this make any sense to you? It makes none to me.
Still makes no sense.

Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
bob young
2007-12-01 05:05:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by les_on_usenet
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:56:05 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF
did
not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god
exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have
done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a
god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in common, a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
All on automatic instinct? Unfortunately not among humans, who are the
only ones killing their own species with abandon. We need not only constant
reminders to be loving and caring of others but examples like Christ
demonstrating love and care, ...to the death if need be.
Yes by instinct but also by intelligence and understanding. Only
religion perverts and debases it in the name of their claimed gods.
All mammals love and nurture their offspring, including us.
Post by les_on_usenet
You Christians foster division and hatred between peoples and
the most fervent believers of the lot fly airplanes for love of
their god screaming it is great as they do. There was one of your
mob attacking catholics in the newsgroup only yesterday simply
because they choose to express their Christianity in a different
way. Yet more division and hatred fostered instead of seeking
reconciliation.
I think there is a crying need by relgionists to obtain gratification from their
particular brand of the belief, hence the sometimes severe reaction to others,
even those in the same basic belief system. I have often pointed out that a god
which suposedly created everything, this earth and all we humans in it, would
hardly tolerate the represive hatred, the cultishness and split loyalties that
we find existing between members of the religion.

Proof - if proof were needed, that religions are the creation of man, including
their gods.
Post by les_on_usenet
but you are right we need to keep reminding people that cooperation is
better than division and you foster that by looking for the
good in people and praising and building on that rrather than
constantly seeking to denegrate and tear them down as you do
simply because we do not share your belief as is our right.
Only you would look for the worst in us instead of recognising that
most of the world is living mostly in peace and harmony. Why did you
not choose instead to mention that we have now had peace in
Europe for the longest period in our entire history and cooperate in
ways undreamed of a Century ago? As a result we are more
prosperous than ever before. We even have a European
Parliament from which common political parties are starting
to emerge.
We are not the only people at peace and cooperating together
for greater prosperity either. Warfare and conflict is the
abberation now in this world.
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
"Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. "
So, he is telling us his God is an evolved human emotion we all
share (well most of are capable of love even though it is
dormant in some)
Incarnate means 'become man'
So he is saying that a human emotion (love) became a human called
Jesus.
Does this make any sense to you? It makes none to me.
Still makes no sense.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
les_on_usenet
2007-12-01 11:57:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by les_on_usenet
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:56:05 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either
that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF
did
not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god
exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have
done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a
god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in common, a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
All on automatic instinct? Unfortunately not among humans, who are the
only ones killing their own species with abandon. We need not only constant
reminders to be loving and caring of others but examples like Christ
demonstrating love and care, ...to the death if need be.
Yes by instinct but also by intelligence and understanding. Only
religion perverts and debases it in the name of their claimed gods.
All mammals love and nurture their offspring, including us.
Post by les_on_usenet
You Christians foster division and hatred between peoples and
the most fervent believers of the lot fly airplanes for love of
their god screaming it is great as they do. There was one of your
mob attacking catholics in the newsgroup only yesterday simply
because they choose to express their Christianity in a different
way. Yet more division and hatred fostered instead of seeking
reconciliation.
I think there is a crying need by relgionists to obtain gratification from their
particular brand of the belief, hence the sometimes severe reaction to others,
even those in the same basic belief system. I have often pointed out that a god
which suposedly created everything, this earth and all we humans in it, would
hardly tolerate the represive hatred, the cultishness and split loyalties that
we find existing between members of the religion.
Proof - if proof were needed, that religions are the creation of man, including
their gods.
No, not proof. They can explain that away by their free-will notion.
We left to do as we will. Judgement comes after death. As ever they
are not consistent with their beliefs. They punish perceived 'sins' on
earth claiming thats what god wants them to do, then tell us god
judges after death not before. Two contradictory claims not based on
any kind of evidence to show how they know these things
Post by bob young
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
Does this make any sense to you? It makes none to me.
Still makes no sense.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
Pastor Frank
2007-12-01 00:45:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by les_on_usenet
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:56:05 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words.
Either
that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF
did
not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his
god
exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have
done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a
god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in
common,
a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
All on automatic instinct? Unfortunately not among humans, who are the
only ones killing their own species with abandon. We need not only constant
reminders to be loving and caring of others but examples like Christ
demonstrating love and care, ...to the death if need be.
Yes by instinct but also by intelligence and understanding. Only
religion perverts and debases it in the name of their claimed gods.
Our Christian "claimed" God is love (1 John 4:8,16). Show how love
perverts and debases those who aim to devote their lives to loving and
caring.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
bob young
2007-12-01 09:53:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:56:05 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words.
Either
that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF
did
not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his
god
exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have
done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a
god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in
common,
a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
All on automatic instinct? Unfortunately not among humans, who are the
only ones killing their own species with abandon. We need not only constant
reminders to be loving and caring of others but examples like Christ
demonstrating love and care, ...to the death if need be.
Yes by instinct but also by intelligence and understanding. Only
religion perverts and debases it in the name of their claimed gods.
Our Christian "claimed" God is love (1 John 4:8,16). Show how love
perverts and debases those who aim to devote their lives to loving and
caring.
Love is not a god. A god was a wooden carving originally or a stone statue,
later man thought up one that lived in the sky as being safer, no-one could
chop it up or damage it there, but then they had another problem, people
started asking where it was in the sky - they wanted to see it, so some bright
spark thought of a 'god's son' to placate the skeptics who were demanding a
fleshy type of god.

These meanderings go on as long as man has a craving for an imaginary comforter
after he grows a but too old for the rubber kind or his mother's nipple.

Others grow up and use their brains and accept life for what it is, a struggle
until death and then 'no more'.

And before you respond Frank with more accusations that non followers of your
god are 'haters' or 'sinners' let me assure you that the struggle of life
should include doing the best for all brethren [to borrow some religious
jargon] regardless of their race, colour and their tendency to follow gods or
not, whilst at the same time following and keeping man's laws which outdated
religious law donkey's years ago. [Of course there still remain disgusting
freaks in some Muslim countries who sit comfortably with cutting off someone's
hands because he stole something - no wonder atheists ar rapidly outnumbering
the religious freaks !]

bob
Humanist Brit.

"Morality is doing what is right, no matter what you're
told.
Religion is doing what you're told, not matter what
is right."
[Jerry Sturdivant]
Post by Pastor Frank
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
les_on_usenet
2007-12-01 11:19:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:56:05 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words.
Either
that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF
did
not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his
god
exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best
thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have
done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a
god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in
common,
a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
All on automatic instinct? Unfortunately not among humans, who are the
only ones killing their own species with abandon. We need not only constant
reminders to be loving and caring of others but examples like Christ
demonstrating love and care, ...to the death if need be.
Yes by instinct but also by intelligence and understanding. Only
religion perverts and debases it in the name of their claimed gods.
Our Christian "claimed" God is love (1 John 4:8,16). Show how love
perverts and debases those who aim to devote their lives to loving and
caring.
Sadly love is a two edged sword as it can cause heartache and
pain just as much as it can cause caring. It can cause jealousy
and hatred to the extent that murder is committed and it can cause
extreme religious fervour leading to conflict and distress.
Post by bob young
Love is not a god. A god was a wooden carving originally or a stone statue,
later man thought up one that lived in the sky as being safer, no-one could
chop it up or damage it there, but then they had another problem, people
started asking where it was in the sky - they wanted to see it, so some bright
spark thought of a 'god's son' to placate the skeptics who were demanding a
fleshy type of god.
These meanderings go on as long as man has a craving for an imaginary comforter
after he grows a but too old for the rubber kind or his mother's nipple.
Others grow up and use their brains and accept life for what it is, a struggle
until death and then 'no more'.
And before you respond Frank with more accusations that non followers of your
god are 'haters' or 'sinners' let me assure you that the struggle of life
should include doing the best for all brethren [to borrow some religious
jargon] regardless of their race, colour and their tendency to follow gods or
not, whilst at the same time following and keeping man's laws which outdated
religious law donkey's years ago. [Of course there still remain disgusting
freaks in some Muslim countries who sit comfortably with cutting off someone's
hands because he stole something - no wonder atheists ar rapidly outnumbering
the religious freaks !]
We have a teacher in Morocco teaching infants. She recently allowed
children to name a teddy bear (some kind of soft toy anyway). One
wanted to name it after a friend Mahommad. The authorities found out
and hauled her to court charged with offending Islam. She could have
been given 22 lashes but instead they decided to be 'leniant' and jail
her for 15 days followed by deportation. They are now out on the
streets protesting the 'light' sentence and some are even demanding
the death penalty. All for the love of god.

I note that there seems to be no demand that the moslem boy who
suggested the name should be sanctioned.

British moslems are also protesting as they think this is way over the
top. One prominent muslim cleric said he was not offended by the name
giving though he thought it inapropriate. He made it clear that it
should never have got to court and that a simple apology by the
woman would have been more than enough to satisfy.

All for the love of a claimed god and his prophet.

They love it to bits we are told. They love it so much that
any hint it is not perfect or that it might not exists must be
ruthlessly supressed.They do it now, Christians did it in the past and
they can do it again should they ever be allowed to get out of
control.


Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
Pastor Frank
2007-12-01 21:36:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Our Christian "claimed" God is love (1 John 4:8,16). Show how love
perverts and debases those who aim to devote their lives to loving and
caring.
Love is not a god.
That's where you are wrong!!!! Anything or anyone, both concrete or
abstract can be considered god or devil by someone. As Christians, when the
Bible says in 1 John 4:8,16 that "God is love", then we believe it, because
we choose to do so, or are led by God to believe it.
Get used to it, Bob! Your own personal and private definitions of words
don't work, and that's why you are still an atheist, and we are not.
Now, show how love "perverts and debases those who aim to devote their
lives to loving and
caring", and stop changing the subject already.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
les_on_usenet
2007-12-01 22:09:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Our Christian "claimed" God is love (1 John 4:8,16). Show how love
perverts and debases those who aim to devote their lives to loving and
caring.
Love is not a god.
That's where you are wrong!!!! Anything or anyone, both concrete or
abstract can be considered god or devil by someone.
Love is a human emotion. My puzzle is why you choose to elevate to the
status of a 'god' Only you define gods PF, we don't.
Post by Pastor Frank
As Christians, when the
Bible says in 1 John 4:8,16 that "God is love", then we believe it, because
we choose to do so, or are led by God to believe it.
It says here "god is love" not that " love is a god."
Post by Pastor Frank
Get used to it, Bob! Your own personal and private definitions of words
don't work, and that's why you are still an atheist, and we are not.
we do not define words PF dictionaries do that. If you have a problem
with dictionary definitions take it up with the compilers not us.

Love:
1. transitive and intransitive verb feel tender affection for
somebody: to feel tender affection for somebody such as a close
relative or friend, or for something such as a place, an ideal, or an
animal
2. transitive and intransitive verb feel desire for somebody: to feel
romantic and sexual desire and longing for somebody
3. transitive verb like something very much: to like something, or
like doing, something very much
I love watching old movies on TV.

4. transitive verb show kindness to somebody: to feel and show
kindness and charity to somebody
love your enemies

5. transitive verb venerate God: to worship and venerate God
6. transitive verb have sex with somebody: to have sexual intercourse
with somebody (dated)

Microsoft® Encarta® 2007. © 1993-2006 Microsoft Corporation. All
rights reserved.

Nothing there about love being a god. Maybe that is your
private definition?

Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
Pastor Frank
2007-12-02 08:37:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Our Christian "claimed" God is love (1 John 4:8,16). Show how love
perverts and debases those who aim to devote their lives to loving and
caring.
Love is not a god.
That's where you are wrong!!!! Anything or anyone, both concrete or
abstract can be considered god or devil by someone.
Love is a human emotion. My puzzle is why you choose to elevate to the
status of a 'god' Only you define gods PF, we don't.
You are making progress!!! There are an awful lot of people who can't
feel any emotions anymore, let alone act lovingly and caring. They are the
dead Jesus keeps talking about, it's just they don't know enough to lie down
already and let themselves be buried. See below

Pastor Frank

Jesus in Mt:11:16-17: But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is
like children sitting in the market place yelling one to another. And like
saying: We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto
you, and ye have not lamented.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
bob young
2007-12-02 05:45:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Our Christian "claimed" God is love (1 John 4:8,16). Show how love
perverts and debases those who aim to devote their lives to loving and
caring.
Love is not a god.
That's where you are wrong!!!! Anything or anyone, both concrete or
abstract can be considered god or devil by someone.
Right and we can then, without any cause for doubt, assume that someone is a
little 'doolally'

English jargon for 'crazy'
Post by Pastor Frank
As Christians, when the
Bible says in 1 John 4:8,16 that "God is love", then we believe it, because
we choose to do so, or are led by God to believe it.
Get used to it, Bob! Your own personal and private definitions of words
don't work, and that's why you are still an atheist, and we are not.
Now, show how love "perverts and debases those who aim to devote their
lives to loving and
caring", and stop changing the subject already.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
les_on_usenet
2007-12-01 10:59:37 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:45:18 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:56:05 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words.
Either
that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF
did
not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his
god
exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have
done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a
god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in
common,
a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
All on automatic instinct? Unfortunately not among humans, who are the
only ones killing their own species with abandon. We need not only constant
reminders to be loving and caring of others but examples like Christ
demonstrating love and care, ...to the death if need be.
Yes by instinct but also by intelligence and understanding. Only
religion perverts and debases it in the name of their claimed gods.
Our Christian "claimed" God is love (1 John 4:8,16). Show how love
perverts and debases those who aim to devote their lives to loving and
caring.
Simple: "WE are right and YOU ae wrong" is the old time religious cry

The muslims scream it, you Christians scream it to every body that is
not in your particular sect, and all the other religions scream it and
you lot will not stop pestering and demanding everybody follows your
particular beliefs. You revile us, you hate us because we do not share
your beliefs . You know right full well the history of religion and
the wars and conflicts it has caused. Many died simply over the
precise meaning of the so called "Trinity". I am not going to repeat
it all here. You are either fully aware of it or are in denial and
refuse to recognise it.

Look at the divisions in the USA over religion with your lot
constantly seeking ways to intrude it into the lives of those
who are not interested. Billboards everywhere screaming the
message. We get it here too.


Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
bob young
2007-12-01 11:42:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by les_on_usenet
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:45:18 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:56:05 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words.
Either
that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF
did
not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his
god
exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best
thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have
done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a
god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in
common,
a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
All on automatic instinct? Unfortunately not among humans, who are the
only ones killing their own species with abandon. We need not only constant
reminders to be loving and caring of others but examples like Christ
demonstrating love and care, ...to the death if need be.
Yes by instinct but also by intelligence and understanding. Only
religion perverts and debases it in the name of their claimed gods.
Our Christian "claimed" God is love (1 John 4:8,16). Show how love
perverts and debases those who aim to devote their lives to loving and
caring.
Simple: "WE are right and YOU ae wrong" is the old time religious cry
The muslims scream it, you Christians scream it to every body that is
not in your particular sect, and all the other religions scream it and
you lot will not stop pestering and demanding everybody follows your
particular beliefs. You revile us, you hate us because we do not share
your beliefs . You know right full well the history of religion and
the wars and conflicts it has caused. Many died simply over the
precise meaning of the so called "Trinity". I am not going to repeat
it all here. You are either fully aware of it or are in denial and
refuse to recognise it.
Look at the divisions in the USA over religion with your lot
constantly seeking ways to intrude it into the lives of those
who are not interested. Billboards everywhere screaming the
message. We get it here too.
There are many times Les after reading your posts I say to myself
"I wish I had written that'

Cheers

Bob
Post by les_on_usenet
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
les_on_usenet
2007-12-01 15:28:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by les_on_usenet
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:45:18 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:56:05 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have
provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words.
Either
that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF
did
not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his
god
exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best
thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have
done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a
god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in
common,
a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
All on automatic instinct? Unfortunately not among humans, who are the
only ones killing their own species with abandon. We need not only constant
reminders to be loving and caring of others but examples like Christ
demonstrating love and care, ...to the death if need be.
Yes by instinct but also by intelligence and understanding. Only
religion perverts and debases it in the name of their claimed gods.
Our Christian "claimed" God is love (1 John 4:8,16). Show how love
perverts and debases those who aim to devote their lives to loving and
caring.
Simple: "WE are right and YOU ae wrong" is the old time religious cry
The muslims scream it, you Christians scream it to every body that is
not in your particular sect, and all the other religions scream it and
you lot will not stop pestering and demanding everybody follows your
particular beliefs. You revile us, you hate us because we do not share
your beliefs . You know right full well the history of religion and
the wars and conflicts it has caused. Many died simply over the
precise meaning of the so called "Trinity". I am not going to repeat
it all here. You are either fully aware of it or are in denial and
refuse to recognise it.
Look at the divisions in the USA over religion with your lot
constantly seeking ways to intrude it into the lives of those
who are not interested. Billboards everywhere screaming the
message. We get it here too.
There are many times Les after reading your posts I say to myself
"I wish I had written that'
Odd. There are many times I wish I hadn't :-)
Post by bob young
Cheers
Bob
Post by les_on_usenet
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
bob young
2007-12-02 04:32:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by les_on_usenet
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:45:18 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:56:05 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have
provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words.
Either
that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which
PF
did
not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his
god
exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best
thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created
the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have
done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as
a
god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be
love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love
and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in
common,
a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
All on automatic instinct? Unfortunately not among humans, who are the
only ones killing their own species with abandon. We need not only constant
reminders to be loving and caring of others but examples like Christ
demonstrating love and care, ...to the death if need be.
Yes by instinct but also by intelligence and understanding. Only
religion perverts and debases it in the name of their claimed gods.
Our Christian "claimed" God is love (1 John 4:8,16). Show how love
perverts and debases those who aim to devote their lives to loving and
caring.
Simple: "WE are right and YOU ae wrong" is the old time religious cry
The muslims scream it, you Christians scream it to every body that is
not in your particular sect, and all the other religions scream it and
you lot will not stop pestering and demanding everybody follows your
particular beliefs. You revile us, you hate us because we do not share
your beliefs . You know right full well the history of religion and
the wars and conflicts it has caused. Many died simply over the
precise meaning of the so called "Trinity". I am not going to repeat
it all here. You are either fully aware of it or are in denial and
refuse to recognise it.
Look at the divisions in the USA over religion with your lot
constantly seeking ways to intrude it into the lives of those
who are not interested. Billboards everywhere screaming the
message. We get it here too.
There are many times Les after reading your posts I say to myself
"I wish I had written that'
Odd. There are many times I wish I hadn't :-)
SMILE
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Cheers
Bob
Post by les_on_usenet
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
Pastor Frank
2007-12-02 02:17:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by les_on_usenet
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:45:18 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Our Christian "claimed" God is love (1 John 4:8,16). Show how love
perverts and debases those who aim to devote their lives to loving and
caring.
Simple: "WE are right and YOU ae wrong" is the old time religious cry
The muslims scream it, you Christians scream it to every body that is
not in your particular sect, and all the other religions scream it and
you lot will not stop pestering and demanding everybody follows your
particular beliefs. You revile us, you hate us because we do not share
your beliefs . You know right full well the history of religion and
the wars and conflicts it has caused. Many died simply over the
precise meaning of the so called "Trinity". I am not going to repeat
it all here. You are either fully aware of it or are in denial and
refuse to recognise it.
Look at the divisions in the USA over religion with your lot
constantly seeking ways to intrude it into the lives of those
who are not interested. Billboards everywhere screaming the
message. We get it here too.
This is mostly non sequitur to love "perverts and debases". Your answer
just shows how atheism produces cynicism, and paranoia. I bet when your kid
give you a hug, you ask him what he did wrong again, or how much money he
expects from you. LOL
Religion "intrude" unduly when you are inundated by advertising all day
long? Are you are you a bigot? Or are you getting ready to prohibit ALL
advertising, including political views, if not abolish free speech
altogether?
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Scott Richter
2007-12-01 14:59:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Our Christian "claimed" God is love (1 John 4:8,16). Show how love
perverts and debases those who aim to devote their lives to loving and
caring.
Oh, I don't know... Why don't you ask Ted Haggard? Or the church leaders
who have paid out over a billion dollars to settle sex abuse cases?

Is it your idea of "loving and caring"?
bob young
2007-12-01 04:44:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF did not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so if
he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in common, a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
"Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. "
So, he is telling us his God is an evolved human emotion we all
share (well most of are capable of love even though it is
dormant in some)
Incarnate means 'become man'
So he is saying that a human emotion (love) became a human called
Jesus.
Does this make any sense to you? It makes none to me.
None to me at all but it does reveal a desperate person struggling to find answers
to the age old questions about religions. Frank thinks he has a novel solution,
but like everything that is man made, it fails
Post by les_on_usenet
Heck humans have expressed love ever since we emerged as a
separate species over 100,00 years ago. You can see it
in the eye of every proud mother with her new born baby.
...and in every mammal feeding it's young
Post by les_on_usenet
She would sacrifice her own life to protect it. That applies to all
the higher mammals too it is in our genes. We need no mythical
Jesus to show or teach us us that.
I should have finished your post before I wrote that !

The primates are good examples too which is not surprising considering our roots.

Bob
From the flat fens of Lincolnshire
[Before Hong Kong that is!]
Post by les_on_usenet
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
les_on_usenet
2007-12-01 11:29:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF did not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so if
he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in common, a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
"Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. "
So, he is telling us his God is an evolved human emotion we all
share (well most of are capable of love even though it is
dormant in some)
Incarnate means 'become man'
So he is saying that a human emotion (love) became a human called
Jesus.
Does this make any sense to you? It makes none to me.
None to me at all but it does reveal a desperate person struggling to find answers
to the age old questions about religions. Frank thinks he has a novel solution,
but like everything that is man made, it fails
Yes I think you have it summed up quite neatly there.
Post by bob young
Post by les_on_usenet
Heck humans have expressed love ever since we emerged as a
separate species over 100,00 years ago. You can see it
in the eye of every proud mother with her new born baby.
...and in every mammal feeding it's young
Post by les_on_usenet
She would sacrifice her own life to protect it. That applies to all
the higher mammals too it is in our genes. We need no mythical
Jesus to show or teach us us that.
I should have finished your post before I wrote that !
Well all tend not to do that with posts in our haste to rattle
of a reply. Enthusiam and a LOVE of human contact and exchange
of ideas I guess.
Post by bob young
The primates are good examples too which is not surprising considering our roots.
You have only to watch a cat feeding and protecting its young
Post by bob young
Bob
From the flat fens of Lincolnshire
[Before Hong Kong that is!]
Damp feet, broad skies, evocative shores, and millions and millions
of peas :-)


Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
bob young
2007-12-01 11:44:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by bob young
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by Bill M
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it.
From my stand point, I interpret words as they are defined in the
dictionary - not as they are defined by individuals. You have provided
evidence he is creating his own personal definitions of words. Either
that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF did
not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god
exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if
he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love and
care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
[How was this god supposed to have created the universe,
without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so
if he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?]
Always the same dealing with religionists, they have one thing in common, a
brushed well practiced skill at 'dodging the issue'
What a waster
Love and caring is an essential part of all the higher evolved mammals
as we could not survive as a species without it. The most advanced of
mammals our young need care and nurturing into adulthood for
the longest time of any animal. This can only be achieved by stable
bonding between parents and off-spring and considerable sacrifice to
raise the child properly.
"Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. "
So, he is telling us his God is an evolved human emotion we all
share (well most of are capable of love even though it is
dormant in some)
Incarnate means 'become man'
So he is saying that a human emotion (love) became a human called
Jesus.
Does this make any sense to you? It makes none to me.
None to me at all but it does reveal a desperate person struggling to find answers
to the age old questions about religions. Frank thinks he has a novel solution,
but like everything that is man made, it fails
Yes I think you have it summed up quite neatly there.
Post by bob young
Post by les_on_usenet
Heck humans have expressed love ever since we emerged as a
separate species over 100,00 years ago. You can see it
in the eye of every proud mother with her new born baby.
...and in every mammal feeding it's young
Post by les_on_usenet
She would sacrifice her own life to protect it. That applies to all
the higher mammals too it is in our genes. We need no mythical
Jesus to show or teach us us that.
I should have finished your post before I wrote that !
Well all tend not to do that with posts in our haste to rattle
of a reply. Enthusiam and a LOVE of human contact and exchange
of ideas I guess.
Post by bob young
The primates are good examples too which is not surprising considering our roots.
You have only to watch a cat feeding and protecting its young
Post by bob young
Bob
From the flat fens of Lincolnshire
[Before Hong Kong that is!]
Damp feet, broad skies, evocative shores, and millions and millions
of peas :-)
and that evergreen take on the Lincolnshire dialect:

Come yar off them cobblin stons,
come ya off that geart meart

If thar don't tha'll catch a coad,

and the it'll be too leart meart.

Cheers
Post by les_on_usenet
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
Pastor Frank
2007-12-01 07:22:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by les_on_usenet
So he is saying that a human emotion (love) became a human called
Jesus. Does this make any sense to you? It makes none to me.
I said the ideal of love became "manifested" in Christ Jesus giving His
precious and innocent life for us sinners who screeched "crucify Him" over
and over with all the other spawn of hell and got Him nailed to a cross. Is
that the same as "became" in your world? No wonder you are an atheist, "it
makes no sense" because you insist on misreading everything.
Post by bob young
None to me at all but it does reveal a desperate person struggling to find answers
to the age old questions about religions. Frank thinks he has a novel solution,
but like everything that is man made, it fails
The words of Christ as recorded in the NT Bible, can only be "novel" to
you Bob.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
les_on_usenet
2007-12-01 20:27:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
So he is saying that a human emotion (love) became a human called
Jesus. Does this make any sense to you? It makes none to me.
I said the ideal of love became "manifested" in Christ Jesus
Love is maifested in everybody PF. Jesus was nothing special in
that regard.
Post by Pastor Frank
giving His
precious and innocent life for us sinners who screeched "crucify Him" over
and over with all the other spawn of hell and got Him nailed to a cross. Is
that the same as "became" in your world? No wonder you are an atheist, "it
makes no sense" because you insist on misreading everything.
Right, thank you for that clarification. God is love and not an actual
living creature 'out there' somewhere and invisible. God is a human
emotion and ideal called love.

Have I got it now?

So, how were humans created and the universe? The usual definition
of the Christian god is a being capable of creating the universe, this
planet and every living creature. Such a creature has to be more than
a human emotion to do that.

This is where your belief does not yet make sense.

You do want us to understand your belief, don't you?

Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
bob young
2007-12-02 04:39:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
So he is saying that a human emotion (love) became a human called
Jesus. Does this make any sense to you? It makes none to me.
I said the ideal of love became "manifested" in Christ Jesus
Love is maifested in everybody PF. Jesus was nothing special in
that regard.
Post by Pastor Frank
giving His
precious and innocent life for us sinners who screeched "crucify Him" over
and over with all the other spawn of hell and got Him nailed to a cross. Is
that the same as "became" in your world? No wonder you are an atheist, "it
makes no sense" because you insist on misreading everything.
Right, thank you for that clarification. God is love and not an actual
living creature 'out there' somewhere and invisible. God is a human
emotion and ideal called love.
Have I got it now?
So, how were humans created and the universe? The usual definition
of the Christian god is a being capable of creating the universe, this
planet and every living creature. Such a creature has to be more than
a human emotion to do that.
This is where your belief does not yet make sense.
You do want us to understand your belief, don't you?
He does but he is failing desperately
Post by les_on_usenet
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
Pastor Frank
2007-12-02 08:24:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
So he is saying that a human emotion (love) became a human called
Jesus. Does this make any sense to you? It makes none to me.
I said the ideal of love became "manifested" in Christ Jesus
Love is maifested in everybody PF. Jesus was nothing special in
that regard.
Not love to the death on the cross, if need be, Most would sell out
their principles and conscience long before they come to any harm. If you
wouldn't, then you are material for sainthood, for sure.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
bob young
2007-12-02 04:37:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Post by les_on_usenet
So he is saying that a human emotion (love) became a human called
Jesus. Does this make any sense to you? It makes none to me.
I said the ideal of love became "manifested" in Christ Jesus giving His
precious and innocent life for us sinners who screeched "crucify Him" over
and over with all the other spawn of hell and got Him nailed to a cross. Is
that the same as "became" in your world? No wonder you are an atheist, "it
makes no sense" because you insist on misreading everything.
Explain the talking bushes in your book
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
None to me at all but it does reveal a desperate person struggling to find answers
to the age old questions about religions. Frank thinks he has a novel solution,
but like everything that is man made, it fails
The words of Christ as recorded in the NT Bible, can only be "novel" to
you Bob.
Very weak and vacillating response - IIMSS
Post by Pastor Frank
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Mark K. Bilbo
2007-12-03 17:54:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by bob young
Your information makes sense. I appreciate it. From my stand point, I
interpret words as they are defined in the dictionary - not as they
are defined by individuals. You have provided evidence he is creating
his own personal definitions of words. Either that
or I am completely misunderstanding him
But from my recollection this is a fairly recent tack and one which PF did not
use eighteen months ago.
his new line is his efforts to get out of having to prove that his god exists.
He can't of course so he adopted this love creation as the next best thing.
As I have just asked PF, since his god was supposed to have created the
universe, without humans on it [they came later] how could he have done so if
he required human love in the first place to actually perform as a god?
Over to you PF.
Like I said: Our God is the ideal we follow, which happens to be love
and care as exemplified in Jesus Christ, our God incarnate. Only love
and care makes life worth living, all else is mere commentary.
"Our" meaning the voices in your head and you...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
Theology: The study of elaborate verbal disguises for non-ideas.
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