Discussion:
Catholics and the Spanish Inquisition
(too old to reply)
Cyril of England
2005-08-20 18:43:36 UTC
Permalink
LOL. according to some Catholics the Spanish Inquisition never happened.

They don't realise that it shows beyond any doubt, that the Roman Crapulous
Church was forsaken by God centuries ago.
For God hates wilful murderers and liars.

Jesus told his bonifide brethren to go and LOVE their enemies, and not to
"Resist evil" and they must "love their neighbours".

This wicked Romanish Church has done the complete opposite.

It hated and despised it's enemies over centuries.
It even hated and despised God's people the Jews.

The Roman Pontiffs raised up worldly armies to go and fight and destroy
their enemies, they even tortured and murdered the faithful brethren who
refuse to capitulate to the evil heresies of this fallen sect.

The Spanish Inquisition went on for many centuries. From 1478-1834......356
years of error and terror perpetrated by this Romanish church sect, wilfully
refusing to obey Jesus.
Just think if we were living in such an era?

That is the truth and part of the terrible murderous and violent and
irrefutable history of this "beastly" spiritually forsaken and hopelessly
corrupted denomination.

Therefore be warned......
Rev 18: 5 " Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her
sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues 5 For her sins have reached
unto heaven ".
jsm542
2005-08-20 19:39:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cyril of England
LOL. according to some Catholics the Spanish Inquisition never happened.
It happened and is not claimed otherwise by God's Catholic
Church, however the English "Inquisition" was much worse
than the Spanish Inquisition. Please provide us numbers of
the English Inquisition deaths so we can compare.

According to non Catholic researchers, the Spanish Inquisition
did last over 300 years however, more have been executed in the
lone state of Texas than during all of those 300 years!
Hugh Betcha
2005-08-20 22:31:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cyril of England
LOL. according to some Catholics the Spanish Inquisition never happened.
Not so. That the Inquisition happened is something that is not denied.
Post by Cyril of England
They don't realise that it shows beyond any doubt, that the Roman Crapulous
Church was forsaken by God centuries ago.
For God hates wilful murderers and liars.
If God 'hates' certain people then He would not have sent His Son to
suffer and die for their sins now, would He?
Post by Cyril of England
Jesus told his bonifide brethren to go and LOVE their enemies, and not to
"Resist evil" and they must "love their neighbours".
There. Then you must love Catholics, too.
Post by Cyril of England
This wicked Romanish Church has done the complete opposite.
It hated and despised it's enemies over centuries.
It even hated and despised God's people the Jews.
Apparently, from what you said, God hates and despises certain people
as well. He sets that example, who are you to question it?
Post by Cyril of England
The Roman Pontiffs raised up worldly armies to go and fight and destroy
their enemies, they even tortured and murdered the faithful brethren who
refuse to capitulate to the evil heresies of this fallen sect.
The Inquisition did not involve armies. The Spanish Inquisition was
originally intended to root out 'conversos' who were false; that is,
converts from Islam who were not actually true Christians, and posed a
threat to the fragile new Spanish Kingdom. 99% of those brought before
the Inquisitors were found innocent; and those who were guilty were
turned over to secular authorities. You should study history. Trust me,
it's fascinating.
Post by Cyril of England
The Spanish Inquisition went on for many centuries. From 1478-1834......356
years of error and terror perpetrated by this Romanish church sect, wilfully
refusing to obey Jesus.
Just think if we were living in such an era?
The 'Spanish' Inquistion was ended in 1808, and briefly revived between
1814 and 1820. Keep in mind that supression of heresy is neccessary and
something that has been done by Christians since the very beginning.
Sometimes they have gone about it in an evil way, and there is no
excuse for that.
Post by Cyril of England
That is the truth and part of the terrible murderous and violent and
irrefutable history of this "beastly" spiritually forsaken and hopelessly
corrupted denomination.
At this point I should describe the bloodthirsty 'inquisitions' carried
out by Protestant followers of Calvin and Zwingli et al... However, the
point is that hatred and paranoia are HUMAN failings, not restricted to
one group or denomination.
Post by Cyril of England
Therefore be warned......
Rev 18: 5 " Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her
sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues 5 For her sins have reached
unto heaven ".
H
--
bam
2005-08-21 03:21:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cyril of England
LOL. according to some Catholics the Spanish Inquisition never happened.
They don't realise that it shows beyond any doubt, that the Roman Crapulous
Church was forsaken by God centuries ago.
For God hates wilful murderers and liars.
Jesus told his bonifide brethren to go and LOVE their enemies, and not to
"Resist evil" and they must "love their neighbours".
This wicked Romanish Church has done the complete opposite.
It hated and despised it's enemies over centuries.
It even hated and despised God's people the Jews.
The Roman Pontiffs raised up worldly armies to go and fight and destroy
their enemies, they even tortured and murdered the faithful brethren who
refuse to capitulate to the evil heresies of this fallen sect.
The Spanish Inquisition went on for many centuries. From
1478-1834......356
years of error and terror perpetrated by this Romanish church sect, wilfully
refusing to obey Jesus.
Just think if we were living in such an era?
That is the truth and part of the terrible murderous and violent and
irrefutable history of this "beastly" spiritually forsaken and hopelessly
corrupted denomination.
Therefore be warned......
Rev 18: 5 " Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her
sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues 5 For her sins have reached
unto heaven ".
What about all the Jewish Inquisitions?

Deuteronomy 17:2 "If there is found among you, within any of your towns
which the Lord your God gives you, a man or woman who does what is evil in
the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing his covenant, 3 and has
gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any
of the host of heaven, which I have forbidden, 4 and it is told you and you
hear of it; then you shall inquire diligently, and if it is true and certain
that such an abominable thing has been done in Israel, 5 then you shall
bring forth to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing,
and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones. 6 On the
evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses he that is to die shall be
put to death; a person shall not be put to death on the evidence of one
witness. 7 The hand of the witnesses shall be first against him to put him
to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. So you shall purge the
evil from the midst of you.
Michael
2005-08-21 15:11:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cyril of England
LOL. according to some Catholics the Spanish Inquisition never happened.
The Spanish Inquisition did indeed happen, however, the Spainish
government was the greatest benefactor and instigator. The Catholic
church is not without flaws, but even they condenmed the Spanish
Inquisition long before it was mercifully ended. Nor should the Spanish
Inquisition be assumed to be typical of other inquisitions of the church.
It wasn't typical anymore than the 4th Crudsade was typical of the others.
Post by Cyril of England
They don't realise that it shows beyond any doubt, that the Roman Crapulous
Church was forsaken by God centuries ago.
For God hates wilful murderers and liars.
In that we can agree, howeever, to condemn all Roman Catholics for a few
who were not practicing Christianity even after the Roman church
condenmned it is also a bit of a lie as well.
Post by Cyril of England
Jesus told his bonifide brethren to go and LOVE their enemies, and not to
"Resist evil" and they must "love their neighbours".
True, although a bit overbroad and sometimes out of context as you present it.
Post by Cyril of England
This wicked Romanish Church has done the complete opposite.
There is only one who is good, not any man nor any organization of men,
but that God is good alone. We all need to give the Romans, methodists,
pentacostals and others loving correction when needed, but such overbroad
condemnation throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not what Jesus
calls for, is it?
Post by Cyril of England
It hated and despised it's enemies over centuries.
It even hated and despised God's people the Jews.
Some haven't been real lovers of Christians, who are also God's people, at
times either.
Post by Cyril of England
The Roman Pontiffs raised up worldly armies to go and fight and destroy
their enemies,
You mean like the invading forces of Islam who were fighting and
destroying the Byzantine Christians for the crime of being Christian
because they hated and despised God's people, the Christians?

they even tortured and murdered the faithful brethren who
Post by Cyril of England
refuse to capitulate to the evil heresies of this fallen sect.
Again, perhaps a wee bit overbroad, specifics lacking.
Post by Cyril of England
The Spanish Inquisition went on for many centuries. From 1478-1834......356
years of error and terror perpetrated by this Romanish church sect, wilfully
refusing to obey Jesus.
Just think if we were living in such an era?
We do; however any such persecution loosely connected to the Roman church
is easily overshaddowed by anti-Christian groups of much more recent
vintage including but not limited to: the holocaust of 6 million
Christians and Jews by the religiously occultists Nazis, the holocaust of
100 million Christians and Jews by the religiously atheistic USSR, the
selling of Christians into slavery in Islamic Africa today as well as the
murder of Christians in Islamic Indonesia today. Was it Roman Catholics
who flew planes into the World Trade Center and sent 3000 to the
holocaust?

Are these latter three things not of much greater weight and more relevant
current urgency than the things you cite that have already been corrected
and repented for 150 years ago assuming your timeline is correct? Why
beat a dead horse who has already corrrected its ways and even admitted
repentance yet turn a blind eye to the atrocities of today? There is
evil all about us today, why are you silent about that and the
organizations which promote it? In that you can make a difference,
endless hatred of past sins repented for bears no fruit of the spirit but
merely feeds the fruits of the flesh. Jesus Christ has forgievn you and
me for our own sins when we repent and sin no more, should we not also
forgive others their repeantant sins in His Image?

There is much to do in the world today, why not focus your energy in a
postive direction for good as even the Catholic Church of today is
attempting to do? No organization of imperfect men is perfect, but you
have a much greater possibility to limit imperfection and promote
perfection by supporting Catholics within their church who are fighting to
restore the church from within rather than ignoring their struggle from
without and spitting on their efforts.

There were many Roman Catholics in the church during the Spanish
Inquisition that stood up and protested, resulting in the Roman church
eventually standing with them and against the Spanish Inquisition. You do
them a great disservice.
Post by Cyril of England
That is the truth and part of the terrible murderous and violent and
irrefutable history of this "beastly" spiritually forsaken and hopelessly
corrupted denomination.
You do perhaps err in ignoring a greater number of positive
accomplishments of the Roman Church in the form of hospitals,
universities, and missionary work which was done spreading the Gospel unto
all nations, healing the sick both physically and spiritually, and
baptising in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
Post by Cyril of England
Therefore be warned......
Rev 18: 5 " Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her
sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues 5 For her sins have reached
unto heaven ".
Wouldn't it be better, assuming your judgement is entirely true which I
doubt, to work for her salvation and restoration rather than her
destruction and condemnation? That is what Christ does for you and I when
we are repentant and strive to sin no more, why not return the favour to
the Roman church in the Image of Christ?
--
"-----------------"
May God Bless You
Michael
R Dane
2005-08-21 17:20:42 UTC
Permalink
While many wait on God and serve him in all churches. Most catholics i
have met know the 10 commandments, who jesus is, and of the reurrection.
Post by Michael
Post by Cyril of England
LOL. according to some Catholics the Spanish Inquisition never happened.
The Spanish Inquisition did indeed happen, however, the Spainish
government was the greatest benefactor and instigator. The Catholic
church is not without flaws, but even they condenmed the Spanish
Inquisition long before it was mercifully ended. Nor should the Spanish
Inquisition be assumed to be typical of other inquisitions of the church.
It wasn't typical anymore than the 4th Crudsade was typical of the others.
Post by Cyril of England
They don't realise that it shows beyond any doubt, that the Roman Crapulous
Church was forsaken by God centuries ago.
For God hates wilful murderers and liars.
In that we can agree, howeever, to condemn all Roman Catholics for a few
who were not practicing Christianity even after the Roman church
condenmned it is also a bit of a lie as well.
Post by Cyril of England
Jesus told his bonifide brethren to go and LOVE their enemies, and not to
"Resist evil" and they must "love their neighbours".
True, although a bit overbroad and sometimes out of context as you present it.
Post by Cyril of England
This wicked Romanish Church has done the complete opposite.
There is only one who is good, not any man nor any organization of men,
but that God is good alone. We all need to give the Romans, methodists,
pentacostals and others loving correction when needed, but such overbroad
condemnation throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not what Jesus
calls for, is it?
Post by Cyril of England
It hated and despised it's enemies over centuries.
It even hated and despised God's people the Jews.
Some haven't been real lovers of Christians, who are also God's people, at
times either.
Post by Cyril of England
The Roman Pontiffs raised up worldly armies to go and fight and destroy
their enemies,
You mean like the invading forces of Islam who were fighting and
destroying the Byzantine Christians for the crime of being Christian
because they hated and despised God's people, the Christians?
they even tortured and murdered the faithful brethren who
Post by Cyril of England
refuse to capitulate to the evil heresies of this fallen sect.
Again, perhaps a wee bit overbroad, specifics lacking.
Post by Cyril of England
The Spanish Inquisition went on for many centuries. From
1478-1834......356
years of error and terror perpetrated by this Romanish church sect, wilfully
refusing to obey Jesus.
Just think if we were living in such an era?
We do; however any such persecution loosely connected to the Roman church
is easily overshaddowed by anti-Christian groups of much more recent
vintage including but not limited to: the holocaust of 6 million
Christians and Jews by the religiously occultists Nazis, the holocaust of
100 million Christians and Jews by the religiously atheistic USSR, the
selling of Christians into slavery in Islamic Africa today as well as the
murder of Christians in Islamic Indonesia today. Was it Roman Catholics
who flew planes into the World Trade Center and sent 3000 to the
holocaust?
Are these latter three things not of much greater weight and more relevant
current urgency than the things you cite that have already been corrected
and repented for 150 years ago assuming your timeline is correct? Why
beat a dead horse who has already corrrected its ways and even admitted
repentance yet turn a blind eye to the atrocities of today? There is
evil all about us today, why are you silent about that and the
organizations which promote it? In that you can make a difference,
endless hatred of past sins repented for bears no fruit of the spirit but
merely feeds the fruits of the flesh. Jesus Christ has forgievn you and
me for our own sins when we repent and sin no more, should we not also
forgive others their repeantant sins in His Image?
There is much to do in the world today, why not focus your energy in a
postive direction for good as even the Catholic Church of today is
attempting to do? No organization of imperfect men is perfect, but you
have a much greater possibility to limit imperfection and promote
perfection by supporting Catholics within their church who are fighting to
restore the church from within rather than ignoring their struggle from
without and spitting on their efforts.
There were many Roman Catholics in the church during the Spanish
Inquisition that stood up and protested, resulting in the Roman church
eventually standing with them and against the Spanish Inquisition. You do
them a great disservice.
Post by Cyril of England
That is the truth and part of the terrible murderous and violent and
irrefutable history of this "beastly" spiritually forsaken and hopelessly
corrupted denomination.
You do perhaps err in ignoring a greater number of positive
accomplishments of the Roman Church in the form of hospitals,
universities, and missionary work which was done spreading the Gospel unto
all nations, healing the sick both physically and spiritually, and
baptising in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
Post by Cyril of England
Therefore be warned......
Rev 18: 5 " Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her
sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues 5 For her sins have reached
unto heaven ".
Wouldn't it be better, assuming your judgement is entirely true which I
doubt, to work for her salvation and restoration rather than her
destruction and condemnation? That is what Christ does for you and I when
we are repentant and strive to sin no more, why not return the favour to
the Roman church in the Image of Christ?
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Michael
2005-08-23 20:33:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by R Dane
While many wait on God and serve him in all churches. Most catholics i
have met know the 10 commandments, who jesus is, and of the reurrection.
And on those basic beliefs, all Christians are solidly united, Thanks be
to the Father for there is only one Body of Christ. We may all argue
endless as to very small differences of belief, but at the end of the day,
the small stuff really doesn't matter.
Post by R Dane
Post by Michael
Post by Cyril of England
LOL. according to some Catholics the Spanish Inquisition never happened.
The Spanish Inquisition did indeed happen, however, the Spainish
government was the greatest benefactor and instigator. The Catholic
church is not without flaws, but even they condenmed the Spanish
Inquisition long before it was mercifully ended. Nor should the Spanish
Inquisition be assumed to be typical of other inquisitions of the church.
It wasn't typical anymore than the 4th Crudsade was typical of the others.
Post by Cyril of England
They don't realise that it shows beyond any doubt, that the Roman Crapulous
Church was forsaken by God centuries ago.
For God hates wilful murderers and liars.
In that we can agree, howeever, to condemn all Roman Catholics for a few
who were not practicing Christianity even after the Roman church
condenmned it is also a bit of a lie as well.
Post by Cyril of England
Jesus told his bonifide brethren to go and LOVE their enemies, and not to
"Resist evil" and they must "love their neighbours".
True, although a bit overbroad and sometimes out of context as you present it.
Post by Cyril of England
This wicked Romanish Church has done the complete opposite.
There is only one who is good, not any man nor any organization of men,
but that God is good alone. We all need to give the Romans, methodists,
pentacostals and others loving correction when needed, but such overbroad
condemnation throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not what Jesus
calls for, is it?
Post by Cyril of England
It hated and despised it's enemies over centuries.
It even hated and despised God's people the Jews.
Some haven't been real lovers of Christians, who are also God's people, at
times either.
Post by Cyril of England
The Roman Pontiffs raised up worldly armies to go and fight and destroy
their enemies,
You mean like the invading forces of Islam who were fighting and
destroying the Byzantine Christians for the crime of being Christian
because they hated and despised God's people, the Christians?
they even tortured and murdered the faithful brethren who
Post by Cyril of England
refuse to capitulate to the evil heresies of this fallen sect.
Again, perhaps a wee bit overbroad, specifics lacking.
Post by Cyril of England
The Spanish Inquisition went on for many centuries. From
1478-1834......356
years of error and terror perpetrated by this Romanish church sect, wilfully
refusing to obey Jesus.
Just think if we were living in such an era?
We do; however any such persecution loosely connected to the Roman church
is easily overshaddowed by anti-Christian groups of much more recent
vintage including but not limited to: the holocaust of 6 million
Christians and Jews by the religiously occultists Nazis, the holocaust of
100 million Christians and Jews by the religiously atheistic USSR, the
selling of Christians into slavery in Islamic Africa today as well as the
murder of Christians in Islamic Indonesia today. Was it Roman Catholics
who flew planes into the World Trade Center and sent 3000 to the
holocaust?
Are these latter three things not of much greater weight and more relevant
current urgency than the things you cite that have already been corrected
and repented for 150 years ago assuming your timeline is correct? Why
beat a dead horse who has already corrrected its ways and even admitted
repentance yet turn a blind eye to the atrocities of today? There is
evil all about us today, why are you silent about that and the
organizations which promote it? In that you can make a difference,
endless hatred of past sins repented for bears no fruit of the spirit but
merely feeds the fruits of the flesh. Jesus Christ has forgievn you and
me for our own sins when we repent and sin no more, should we not also
forgive others their repeantant sins in His Image?
There is much to do in the world today, why not focus your energy in a
postive direction for good as even the Catholic Church of today is
attempting to do? No organization of imperfect men is perfect, but you
have a much greater possibility to limit imperfection and promote
perfection by supporting Catholics within their church who are fighting to
restore the church from within rather than ignoring their struggle from
without and spitting on their efforts.
There were many Roman Catholics in the church during the Spanish
Inquisition that stood up and protested, resulting in the Roman church
eventually standing with them and against the Spanish Inquisition. You do
them a great disservice.
Post by Cyril of England
That is the truth and part of the terrible murderous and violent and
irrefutable history of this "beastly" spiritually forsaken and hopelessly
corrupted denomination.
You do perhaps err in ignoring a greater number of positive
accomplishments of the Roman Church in the form of hospitals,
universities, and missionary work which was done spreading the Gospel unto
all nations, healing the sick both physically and spiritually, and
baptising in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
Post by Cyril of England
Therefore be warned......
Rev 18: 5 " Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her
sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues 5 For her sins have reached
unto heaven ".
Wouldn't it be better, assuming your judgement is entirely true which I
doubt, to work for her salvation and restoration rather than her
destruction and condemnation? That is what Christ does for you and I when
we are repentant and strive to sin no more, why not return the favour to
the Roman church in the Image of Christ?
--
"-----------------"
May God Bless You
Michael
1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
2005-08-23 22:45:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by R Dane
While many wait on God and serve him in all churches. Most catholics i
have met know the 10 commandments, who jesus is, and of the reurrection.
And on those basic beliefs, all Christians are solidly united, Thanks be
to the Father for there is only one Body of Christ. We may all argue
endless as to very small differences of belief, but at the end of the day,
the small stuff really doesn't matter.
What does Jesus have to say about that Michael?
Luke 16:10 "He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in
much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much."
Michael
2005-08-24 16:31:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by Michael
Post by R Dane
While many wait on God and serve him in all churches. Most catholics i
have met know the 10 commandments, who jesus is, and of the reurrection.
And on those basic beliefs, all Christians are solidly united, Thanks be
to the Father for there is only one Body of Christ. We may all argue
endless as to very small differences of belief, but at the end of the day,
the small stuff really doesn't matter.
What does Jesus have to say about that Michael?
Luke 16:10 "He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in
much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much."
Good quote and one in which I agree; however, I wasn't commenting on the
sucessful and unsuccessful striving to be lawful, I was commenting on the
trivial denominational differences such as whether one should be baptised
by sprinkling or submersion, a debate which appears to separate many
Christians, but at the end of the day, really doesn't. For the foot of
the Body may think it was imersed while the head can only see a sprinkling
notwithstanding that that the baptism by water is merely a symbol, without
the baptism by the Spirit, it is form without substance however it may be
done. Some could argue that the only "true" baptism by water could only
be done by John in the Jordan, but they'd be wrong.
--
"-----------------"
May God Bless You
Michael
JCarew
2005-08-24 13:13:12 UTC
Permalink
JMJ

The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition
by Ellen Rice

"The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition," is a 1994 BBC/A&E
production (hardly Catholic organizations,jc). It is a
definite must-see for anyone who wishes to know how
historians now evaluate the Spanish Inquisition since the
opening of an investigation into the Inquisition's archives.
The special includes commentary from historians whose
studies verify that the tale of the darkest hour of the
Church was greatly fabricated.

In its brief sixty-minute presentation, "The Myth of the
Spanish Inquisition" provides only an overview of the
origins and debunking of the myths of torture and genocide.
The documentary definitely succeeds in leaving the viewer
hungry to know more. The long-held beliefs of the audience
are sufficiently weakened by the testimony of experts and
the expose of the making of the myth.

The Inquisition began in 1480. Spain was beginning a
historic reunification of Aragon and Castile. The marriage
of Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castile created a
unified Hispania not seen since Roman times. Afraid that
laws commanding the exile or conversion of Jews were
thwarted by conversos i.e. synagogue-going "Catholics,
" Ferdinand and Isabella commissioned an investigation or
Inquisition. They began the Inquisition hoping that
religious unity would foster political unity, and other
heads of state heralded Spain's labors for the advent of
a unified Christendom. The documentary clearly and boldly
narrates the historical context, which intimates that the
Spanish were not acting odd by their contemporary standards.

The Inquisition Myth, which Spaniards call "The Black
Legend," did not arise in 1480. It began almost 100 years
later, and exactly one year after the Protestant defeat at
the Battle of Muhlberg at the hands of Ferdinand's grandson,
the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. In 1567 a fierce propaganda
campaign began with the publication of a Protestant leaflet
penned by a supposed Inquisition victim named Montanus.
This character (Protestant of course) painted Spaniards as
barbarians who ravished women and sodomized young boys.The
propagandists soon created "hooded fiends" who tortured
their victims in horrible devices like the knife-filled
Iron Maiden (which never was used in Spain). The BBC/A&E
special plainly states a reason for the war of words: the
Protestants fought with words because they could not win
on the battlefield.

The Inquisition had a secular character, although the
crime was heresy. Inquisitors did not have to be clerics,
but they did have to be lawyers. The investigation was
rule-based and carefully kept in check. And most
significantly, historians have declared fraudulent a
supposed Inquisition document claiming the genocide of
millions of heretics.

What is documented is that 3000 to 5000 people died during
the Inquisition's 350 year history. Also documented are the
"Acts of Faith," public sentencings of heretics in town
squares. But the grand myth of thought control by sinister
fiends has been debunked by the archival evidence. The
inquisitors enjoyed a powerful position in the towns, but
it was one constantly jostled by other power brokers. In
the outlying areas, they were understaffed - in those days
it was nearly impossible for 1 or 2 inquisitors to cover
the thousand-mile territory allotted to each team. In the
outlying areas no one cared and no one spoke to them. As
the program documents, the 3,000 to 5,000 documented
executions of the Inquisition pale in comparison to the
150,000 documented witch burnings elsewhere in Europe
over the same centuries.

The approach is purely historical, and therefore does not
delve into ecclesial issues surrounding religious freedom.
But perhaps this is proper. Because the crime was heresy,
the Church is implicated, but the facts show it was a
secular event.

One facet of the Black Legend that evaporates under scrutiny
in this film is the rumor that Philip II, son of Charles V,
killed his son Don Carlos on the advisement of the aging
blind Grand Inquisitor. But without a shred of evidence,
the legend of Don Carlos has been enshrined in a glorious
opera by Verdi.

Discrediting the Black Legend brings up the sticky subject
of revisionism. Re-investigating history is only invalid
if it puts an agenda ahead of reality. The experts - once
true believers in the Inquisition myth - were not out to
do a feminist canonization of Isabella or claim that Tomas
de Torquemada was a Marxist. Henry Kamen of the Higher
Council for Scientific Research in Barcelona said on camera
that researching the Inquisition's archives "demolished
the previous image all of us (historians) had."

And the future of the Black Legend? For many it may continue
to hold more weight than reality. There is the emotional
appeal against the Church. The dissenters of today may
easily imagine Torquemada's beady eyes as a metaphor of the
Church's "dictatorial, controlling, damning" pronouncements.
The myth is also the easiest endorsement of the secular
state: "de-faith" the state and de-criminalize heresy. Who
will be the revisionists in this case? Will the many follow
Montanas' lead in rewriting history? Our 20th century crisis
of man playing God - usurping power over conception, life,
and death - leaves us with no alternative but to qualify
our demythologization of the Inquisition with a reminder:
3,000 to 5,000 victims are 3,000 to 5,000 too many.

Ellen Rice is assistant to the editor of Catholic Dossier

Jim Carew sfo
Michael
2005-08-24 16:33:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by JCarew
JMJ
The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition
by Ellen Rice
"The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition," is a 1994 BBC/A&E
production (hardly Catholic organizations,jc). It is a
definite must-see for anyone who wishes to know how
historians now evaluate the Spanish Inquisition since the
opening of an investigation into the Inquisition's archives.
The special includes commentary from historians whose
studies verify that the tale of the darkest hour of the
Church was greatly fabricated.
In its brief sixty-minute presentation, "The Myth of the
Spanish Inquisition" provides only an overview of the
origins and debunking of the myths of torture and genocide.
The documentary definitely succeeds in leaving the viewer
hungry to know more. The long-held beliefs of the audience
are sufficiently weakened by the testimony of experts and
the expose of the making of the myth.
The Inquisition began in 1480. Spain was beginning a
historic reunification of Aragon and Castile. The marriage
of Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castile created a
unified Hispania not seen since Roman times. Afraid that
laws commanding the exile or conversion of Jews were
thwarted by conversos i.e. synagogue-going "Catholics,
" Ferdinand and Isabella commissioned an investigation or
Inquisition. They began the Inquisition hoping that
religious unity would foster political unity, and other
heads of state heralded Spain's labors for the advent of
a unified Christendom. The documentary clearly and boldly
narrates the historical context, which intimates that the
Spanish were not acting odd by their contemporary standards.
The Inquisition Myth, which Spaniards call "The Black
Legend," did not arise in 1480. It began almost 100 years
later, and exactly one year after the Protestant defeat at
the Battle of Muhlberg at the hands of Ferdinand's grandson,
the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. In 1567 a fierce propaganda
campaign began with the publication of a Protestant leaflet
penned by a supposed Inquisition victim named Montanus.
This character (Protestant of course) painted Spaniards as
barbarians who ravished women and sodomized young boys.The
propagandists soon created "hooded fiends" who tortured
their victims in horrible devices like the knife-filled
Iron Maiden (which never was used in Spain). The BBC/A&E
special plainly states a reason for the war of words: the
Protestants fought with words because they could not win
on the battlefield.
The Inquisition had a secular character, although the
crime was heresy. Inquisitors did not have to be clerics,
but they did have to be lawyers. The investigation was
rule-based and carefully kept in check. And most
significantly, historians have declared fraudulent a
supposed Inquisition document claiming the genocide of
millions of heretics.
What is documented is that 3000 to 5000 people died during
the Inquisition's 350 year history. Also documented are the
"Acts of Faith," public sentencings of heretics in town
squares. But the grand myth of thought control by sinister
fiends has been debunked by the archival evidence. The
inquisitors enjoyed a powerful position in the towns, but
it was one constantly jostled by other power brokers. In
the outlying areas, they were understaffed - in those days
it was nearly impossible for 1 or 2 inquisitors to cover
the thousand-mile territory allotted to each team. In the
outlying areas no one cared and no one spoke to them. As
the program documents, the 3,000 to 5,000 documented
executions of the Inquisition pale in comparison to the
150,000 documented witch burnings elsewhere in Europe
over the same centuries.
The approach is purely historical, and therefore does not
delve into ecclesial issues surrounding religious freedom.
But perhaps this is proper. Because the crime was heresy,
the Church is implicated, but the facts show it was a
secular event.
One facet of the Black Legend that evaporates under scrutiny
in this film is the rumor that Philip II, son of Charles V,
killed his son Don Carlos on the advisement of the aging
blind Grand Inquisitor. But without a shred of evidence,
the legend of Don Carlos has been enshrined in a glorious
opera by Verdi.
Discrediting the Black Legend brings up the sticky subject
of revisionism. Re-investigating history is only invalid
if it puts an agenda ahead of reality. The experts - once
true believers in the Inquisition myth - were not out to
do a feminist canonization of Isabella or claim that Tomas
de Torquemada was a Marxist. Henry Kamen of the Higher
Council for Scientific Research in Barcelona said on camera
that researching the Inquisition's archives "demolished
the previous image all of us (historians) had."
And the future of the Black Legend? For many it may continue
to hold more weight than reality. There is the emotional
appeal against the Church. The dissenters of today may
easily imagine Torquemada's beady eyes as a metaphor of the
Church's "dictatorial, controlling, damning" pronouncements.
The myth is also the easiest endorsement of the secular
state: "de-faith" the state and de-criminalize heresy. Who
will be the revisionists in this case? Will the many follow
Montanas' lead in rewriting history? Our 20th century crisis
of man playing God - usurping power over conception, life,
and death - leaves us with no alternative but to qualify
3,000 to 5,000 victims are 3,000 to 5,000 too many.
Ellen Rice is assistant to the editor of Catholic Dossier
Jim Carew sfo
Great contact to reality for Christophobes who want to emotionally
re-image reality to convorm to their prejudices.
--
"-----------------"
May God Bless You
Michael
Doc Watson
2005-08-21 16:14:39 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 18:43:36 GMT, "Cyril of England"
Post by Cyril of England
They don't realise that it shows beyond any doubt, that the Roman Crapulous
Church was forsaken by God centuries ago.
For God hates wilful murderers and liars.
Roman Crapulous - that's different!
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