Discussion:
RELIGIOUS BELIEF
(too old to reply)
Bill
2005-07-03 19:21:43 UTC
Permalink
What is religion? Historically religious beliefs appear to have begun with
belief in magic, thence religious beliefs and now science.



Religion is a particular system, or a set of systems, in which doctrines,
myths, rituals, sentiments, institutions, and other similar elements are
interconnected into an overall, and frequently, nebulous concept.



It is amazing how humans become enamored and intoxicated with their
particular religions and religious beliefs. Without any objective
reproducible and verifiable evidence they assume their religion is the true
correct religion and that all the others are fakes and heretical.



Most people are constantly indoctrinated in their religion starting in very
early childhood and threatened with severe punishment for question the
existence of their god.



Most rely on ancient, vague and contradictory documents myths and legends as
the foundation of their religious beliefs and practices.



Major religious documents:



Baha'i Sacred writings

Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon

The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.

NO originals exist.

The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints

The Analects - Confuscianism

The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs

Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome

Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism

Qur'an - Islam

The Tanakh - Jewism

Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism

Nag Hammadi - Gnostics

Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong



Here are just the major religions. There are many more minor religions.
Additionally all have different beliefs and factions within their primary
religion.



Christianity

Mormonism
Islam
Hinduism
Judaism
Sikhism
Buddhism
Zoroastrianism



And hundreds of major variations on the beliefs within all these religions.



Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes? None of these documents are objective evidence.
They are all documents written, copied, recopied and modified by errant men
over the centuries. There is no way to determine authenticity or accuracy.
The objective evidence is that they are a mixture of history, myth, folklore
and legends.



Of the BILLIONS of people on this earth, none have verifiably heard from any
of these gods. There are a relatively few that claim they have heard from
THEIR god but these are likely just the imaginings of neurotic believers and
religious fakers.



Of the billions who have died there is no verifiable evidence that any of
them have contacted or communicated with their living children, siblings,
friends or relatives.



The objective evidence is that there are no gods that have created man but
that man has created gods.
jaws
2005-07-03 19:58:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
Of the BILLIONS of people on this earth, none have verifiably heard from any
of these gods. There are a relatively few that claim they have heard from
THEIR god but these are likely just the imaginings of neurotic believers
and religious fakers.
Wrong. I have both seen and spoken to God. He verified that the earth is
flat and was created in 6 days.
fred
2005-07-03 20:06:56 UTC
Permalink
God gave us an imagination powerful enough to "create" gods. This same
imagination likewise creates meaningless religious rituals by which to
worship those gods.

In contrast, the God of the Bible wants us to worship him in faith
(Hebrews 11:6) by accepting his Son Jesus (Revelation 3:20).
Unfortunately, people tend to put their faith in anything but Jesus
Christ these days.
jaws
2005-07-03 20:17:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by fred
God gave us an imagination powerful enough to "create" gods. This same
imagination likewise creates meaningless religious rituals by which to
worship those gods.
In contrast, the God of the Bible wants us to worship him in faith
(Hebrews 11:6) by accepting his Son Jesus (Revelation 3:20).
Unfortunately, people tend to put their faith in anything but Jesus
Christ these days.
ROTFL. And ROFTL some more. What a crock of shit. ROTFL some more, and
splitting my side. My friend, why do people not "tend to put their faith in
anything but Jesus Christ these days." Could it be because people cannot
hear him, cannot see him, cannot smell him, cannot touch him? Could this
be because Jesus, the leader of a band of essene priests in the middle East
in around AD 30 is no actually longer alive? Could this be why? What do
you think? :-)

Sorry mate, but your belief is flawed ... seriously flawed by the *fact*
that your "messiah" is DEAD. Get used to it.

Jaws.
fred
2005-07-03 21:31:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by jaws
Post by fred
God gave us an imagination powerful enough to "create" gods. This same
imagination likewise creates meaningless religious rituals by which to
worship those gods.
In contrast, the God of the Bible wants us to worship him in faith
(Hebrews 11:6) by accepting his Son Jesus (Revelation 3:20).
Unfortunately, people tend to put their faith in anything but Jesus
Christ these days.
ROTFL. And ROFTL some more. What a crock of shit. ROTFL some more, and
splitting my side. My friend, why do people not "tend to put their faith in
anything but Jesus Christ these days." Could it be because people cannot
hear him, cannot see him, cannot smell him, cannot touch him? Could this
be because Jesus, the leader of a band of essene priests in the middle East
in around AD 30 is no actually longer alive? Could this be why? What do
you think? :-)
Sorry mate, but your belief is flawed ... seriously flawed by the *fact*
that your "messiah" is DEAD. Get used to it.
Thank you for your emotional response although it really doesn't tell
me anything.

Believeing in Jesus Christ in faith in not a simple act of the will.
Sure, you or anybody can create a Jesus - or any other god(s) - with
your imagination. But an imaginary Jesus is not the Jesus of your
faith.

Again, nobody has ever become a true believer in Jesus Christ because
they decided to believe in Jesus all of the sudden. Only Jesus' Holy
Spirit can open your mind to who Jesus is. In fact, the Pharisees of
Jesus' time rejected the Holy Spirit's convictions as to who Jesus is,
just as you are doing now. As a consequence, they could not believe in
Jesus regardless that Jesus had been performing miracles in front of
their faces. They couldn't believe in Jesus even if they wanted to.
This is because by denying the Spirit they had burned the only bridge
by which they could put their faith in Jesus. Don't make the same
mistake that the Pharisees did.
Post by jaws
Jaws.
Bill
2005-07-03 21:14:32 UTC
Permalink
Where is your objective evidence that Jesus is god?

where is your objective evidence that Jesus Christ actually existed?

The Bibles are not objective evidence, they are just myths, legends and
men's unsubstantiated opinions.

There not even coherent or intelligent.
Post by fred
God gave us an imagination powerful enough to "create" gods. This same
imagination likewise creates meaningless religious rituals by which to
worship those gods.
In contrast, the God of the Bible wants us to worship him in faith
(Hebrews 11:6) by accepting his Son Jesus (Revelation 3:20).
Unfortunately, people tend to put their faith in anything but Jesus
Christ these days.
jaws
2005-07-03 21:43:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
Where is your objective evidence that Jesus is god?
where is your objective evidence that Jesus Christ actually existed?
The Bibles are not objective evidence, they are just myths, legends and
men's unsubstantiated opinions.
There not even coherent or intelligent.
Don't think you're going to get through to him, Bill. Like most Christians
he is hiding behind an anti-logic wall.
fred
2005-07-04 02:29:41 UTC
Permalink
Look who's talking. You essentially justified your assertions with an
"it's true because I said so". In other words, you are believing in
your assertions by faith as much as I believe in Jesus Christ by faith.
fred
2005-07-04 02:27:10 UTC
Permalink
No christian has ever become a believer because some other christian
was able to provide the objective evidence that you want. In fact,
regardless that the Pharisees saw Jesus performing miracles they
nonetheless rejected the convictions of the Holy Spirit that Jesus is
Lord. And without the power of the Holy Spirit you cannot accept who
Jesus is even if you wanted to.

Also, regarding your remark that the Bible is just a bunch of writings
- yes it is. But Christians have been saying for the last 2000+ years
that their belief in Jesus is based on faith anyway.
jd
2005-07-10 11:25:32 UTC
Permalink
Yet God did not leave himself without witness, for he did good by giving you
rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, satisfying your hearts with food and
gladness. From one ancestor he made all nations to inhabit the whole
earth, and he allotted the times of their existence and the boundaries of
the places where they would live
Ever since the creation of the world his eternal power and divine nature,
invisible though they are, have been understood and seen through the things
he has made. So everyone is without excuse;
(Acts 14:17, 17:26; Romans 1:19)
Post by Bill
Where is your objective evidence that Jesus is god?
where is your objective evidence that Jesus Christ actually existed?
The Bibles are not objective evidence, they are just myths, legends and
men's unsubstantiated opinions.
There not even coherent or intelligent.
Post by fred
God gave us an imagination powerful enough to "create" gods. This same
imagination likewise creates meaningless religious rituals by which to
worship those gods.
In contrast, the God of the Bible wants us to worship him in faith
(Hebrews 11:6) by accepting his Son Jesus (Revelation 3:20).
Unfortunately, people tend to put their faith in anything but Jesus
Christ these days.
Bill
2005-07-10 20:12:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by jd
Yet God did not leave himself without witness, for he did good by giving you
rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, satisfying your hearts with food and
gladness. From one ancestor he made all nations to inhabit the whole
earth, and he allotted the times of their existence and the boundaries of
the places where they would live
Ever since the creation of the world his eternal power and divine nature,
invisible though they are, have been understood and seen through the things
he has made. So everyone is without excuse;
(Acts 14:17, 17:26; Romans 1:19)
Look at the real world around you!

Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body malfunctions?
Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to death or die
of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally innocent children in
this horrible way?

Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally “innocent children”
to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed
brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and
others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others
pauper poor? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate into a
miserable and devastating old age?



Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, poisonous snakes, stinging
and poisonous insects, poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring benevolent
god create animals (including man) that need to painfully kill and eat other
animals to survive?



World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.

World II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all
ages and religious faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more
millions maimed
for life.

The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed 270,000 lives; men, women and innocent
children of all religious persuasions. 100,000 of these were totally
innocent children!

There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th.
and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and
totally

innocent children.

The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and
innocent
children indiscriminately.



Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions
indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and
malnutrition.

These afflicted the young and old, atheists and those of all religious
persuasions.



Meanwhile MAN, not god, has developed defenses and cures for hundreds of
serious diseases. Man has learned to create shelter, heat and cooling,
purify water, world wide electronic communications, power and transportation
systems including flying through the air.


Perhaps your loving and caring god is actually a cruel, heartless, mean and
torturing tyrant. If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you think
he will let us enjoy peace and happiness in his eternal Heaven after death?
And why does he keep all this a secret by preventing communication with our
dead parents, siblings and friends?

If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent god. Nor is he an “Intelligent Designer”. The
objective evidence is that, if there is a god creator, he has NO concern
about the welfare of the creatures on Earth.



The objective evidence is that no god created man but quite the opposite;
that man created gods!
Post by jd
Post by Bill
Where is your objective evidence that Jesus is god?
where is your objective evidence that Jesus Christ actually existed?
The Bibles are not objective evidence, they are just myths, legends and
men's unsubstantiated opinions.
There not even coherent or intelligent.
Post by fred
God gave us an imagination powerful enough to "create" gods. This same
imagination likewise creates meaningless religious rituals by which to
worship those gods.
In contrast, the God of the Bible wants us to worship him in faith
(Hebrews 11:6) by accepting his Son Jesus (Revelation 3:20).
Unfortunately, people tend to put their faith in anything but Jesus
Christ these days.
jd
2005-07-13 15:06:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
Look at the real world around you!
Exactly. It did not happen by accident.
Post by Bill
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
<snip>.....

If you think that these things are horrible evils, then we don't have any
argument. God does not like these either. Your sense of indignation toward
all the suffering and evil in this world is perfectly biblical - you and the
God of the Bible are in agreement.

Why does He let these things happen? The book of Genesis starts out with
Man in a flawless environment. Adam's sin brought a curse upon nature and
our environment. The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23).

By the way, how much money do you donate each week out of your paycheck to
help the poor? How much time do you spend each week in the soup kitchens
serving those less fortunate than you? Have you wrote your Representative
opposing abortion on demand since you hate to hear of babies dying at birth?
If some are born smarter than others, do you give your talents to help those
who cannot help themselves? Did you ever help teach an illiterate person to
read?

We cannot control everything. But, are you obeying God and doing what you
can do every day to make a difference? If not, then you are part of the
problem - just as I am when I don't do these things either.
Post by Bill
Perhaps your loving and caring god is actually a cruel, heartless, mean and
torturing tyrant. If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you think
he will let us enjoy peace and happiness in his eternal Heaven after death?
And why does he keep all this a secret by preventing communication with our
dead parents, siblings and friends?
In the Bible, God does promise to bring an end to all the evil and suffering
someday.
"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more,
neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain anymore, for the former
things have passed away. And he who was seated on the throne said, 'Behold,
I am making all things new'. Also he said, 'Write this down, for these
words are trustworthy and true.' And he said to me, "It is done! I am the
Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give
from the spring of the water of life without payment. " (Revelation 21).

"The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will
lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down
together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near
the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper's
nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the
earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.
...Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf
unstopped; then shall the lame man leap like a deer, and the tongue of the
mute sing for joy." (Isaiah 11 & 56)

God loves you and wants to have a personal relationship with you that
includes fellowship, inner peace, happiness, guidance in life and power to
fulfill His special plan for your life.

The problem is that ""All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God."
(Romans 3:23). The old testament prophet Isaiah wrote "All of us have become
like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are filthy rags." Not
only do our sins offend God, but anything we do to try and earn acceptance
and forgiveness on our own merits is useless.

God is holy. He cannot have a relationship with anyone who falls short of
His righteous character. "The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of
God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23).

God so loved us that He sent the Lord Jesus Christ, His unique Son, to
become God in human flesh to be our Savior. Jesus stepped out of eternity
into time, lived a perfect life as a man and thus qualified to die for the
sins of the world. He then willingly died in our place, paid the full price
and penalty for our sins and salvation, and rose from the dead on the third
day, body and soul, and announced that He is Lord of all. He offers
forgiveness of sins and eternal life as a free gift. God's perfect Justice
against our sin is satisfied in the death and resurrection of His Son, Jesus
Christ. "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might
become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Corinthians 5:21)

The only barrier that stands between you and God is you. You must be
willing to receive the Lord Jesus Christ into your own life as your personal
Lord and Savior.

Jesus gave us this invitation, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If
anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine
with him, and he with Me." (Revelation 3:20) The door represents your will.
You open the door by inviting Jesus Christ to come into your life.
Bill
2005-07-14 21:15:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by jd
Post by Bill
Look at the real world around you!
Exactly. It did not happen by accident.
No, it evolved.
Post by jd
Post by Bill
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
<snip>.....
If you think that these things are horrible evils, then we don't have any
argument. God does not like these either. Your sense of indignation toward
all the suffering and evil in this world is perfectly biblical - you and the
God of the Bible are in agreement.
But why did uor god create such such a vicious world? He did create the
whole Univesre didn't he?
Post by jd
Why does He let these things happen? The book of Genesis starts out with
Man in a flawless environment. Adam's sin brought a curse upon nature and
our environment. The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23).
Why would Adam and Eve eating a piece of fruit create all this vicious
destruction and death
for centuries of for other humans for centuries?

I though your god died on the cross to forgive man's sins?
Post by jd
By the way, how much money do you donate each week out of your paycheck to
help the poor?
Quite a bit.

How much time do you spend each week in the soup kitchens
Post by jd
serving those less fortunate than you? Have you wrote your Representative
opposing abortion on demand since you hate to hear of babies dying at birth?
I am not opposed to early term abortion of embryos. They are not persons
until birth.
Post by jd
If some are born smarter than others, do you give your talents to help those
who cannot help themselves? Did you ever help teach an illiterate person to
read?
We cannot control everything. But, are you obeying God
I don't obey a nonexistent entity.

and doing what you
Post by jd
can do every day to make a difference?
Yes.

If not, then you are part of the
Post by jd
problem - just as I am when I don't do these things either.
Post by Bill
Perhaps your loving and caring god is actually a cruel, heartless, mean
and
Post by Bill
torturing tyrant. If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you think
he will let us enjoy peace and happiness in his eternal Heaven after
death?
Post by Bill
And why does he keep all this a secret by preventing communication with
our
Post by Bill
dead parents, siblings and friends?
In the Bible, God does promise to bring an end to all the evil and suffering
someday.
What is he waiting for?
Post by jd
"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more,
neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain anymore, for the former
things have passed away. And he who was seated on the throne said, 'Behold,
I am making all things new'. Also he said, 'Write this down, for these
words are trustworthy and true.' And he said to me, "It is done! I am the
Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give
from the spring of the water of life without payment. " (Revelation 21).
"The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will
lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down
together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near
the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper's
nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the
earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.
...Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf
unstopped; then shall the lame man leap like a deer, and the tongue of the
mute sing for joy." (Isaiah 11 & 56)
Pure nonsense!
Post by jd
God loves you and wants to have a personal relationship with you that
includes fellowship, inner peace, happiness, guidance in life and power to
fulfill His special plan for your life.
More unsubstantiated nonsense!
Post by jd
The problem is that ""All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God."
(Romans 3:23). The old testament prophet Isaiah wrote "All of us have become
like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are filthy rags."
Not
only do our sins offend God, but anything we do to try and earn acceptance
and forgiveness on our own merits is useless.
God is holy. He cannot have a relationship with anyone who falls short of
His righteous character. "The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of
God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23).
God so loved us that He sent the Lord Jesus Christ, His unique Son, to
become God in human flesh to be our Savior. Jesus stepped out of eternity
into time, lived a perfect life as a man and thus qualified to die for the
sins of the world. He then willingly died in our place, paid the full price
and penalty for our sins and salvation, and rose from the dead on the third
day, body and soul, and announced that He is Lord of all.
If your Jesus paid the full price of our sins how come we are still being
punished?

He offers
Post by jd
forgiveness of sins and eternal life as a free gift. God's perfect Justice
against our sin is satisfied in the death and resurrection of His Son, Jesus
Christ. "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might
become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Corinthians 5:21)
The only barrier that stands between you and God is you. You must be
willing to receive the Lord Jesus Christ into your own life as your personal
Lord and Savior.
Jesus gave us this invitation, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If
anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine
with him, and he with Me." (Revelation 3:20) The door represents your will.
You open the door by inviting Jesus Christ to come into your life.
All pure myth and fables.
David Ragland
2005-07-20 01:36:47 UTC
Permalink
Sounds like you're mad at the God your don't believe in.

Care to discuss this?
Post by Bill
Post by jd
Yet God did not leave himself without witness, for he did good by giving you
rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, satisfying your hearts with food and
gladness. From one ancestor he made all nations to inhabit the whole
earth, and he allotted the times of their existence and the boundaries of
the places where they would live
Ever since the creation of the world his eternal power and divine nature,
invisible though they are, have been understood and seen through the things
he has made. So everyone is without excuse;
(Acts 14:17, 17:26; Romans 1:19)
Look at the real world around you!
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body
malfunctions? Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve
to death or die of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally
innocent children in this horrible way?
Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally "innocent
children"
to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed
brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and
others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others
pauper poor? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate into a
miserable and devastating old age?
Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, poisonous snakes, stinging
and poisonous insects, poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring
benevolent god create animals (including man) that need to painfully kill
and eat other animals to survive?
World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.
World II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all
ages and religious faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more
millions maimed
for life.
The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed 270,000 lives; men, women and
innocent children of all religious persuasions. 100,000 of these were
totally innocent children!
There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th.
and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and
totally
innocent children.
The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and
innocent
children indiscriminately.
Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions
indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and
malnutrition.
These afflicted the young and old, atheists and those of all religious
persuasions.
Meanwhile MAN, not god, has developed defenses and cures for hundreds of
serious diseases. Man has learned to create shelter, heat and cooling,
purify water, world wide electronic communications, power and
transportation systems including flying through the air.
Perhaps your loving and caring god is actually a cruel, heartless, mean
and torturing tyrant. If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you
think he will let us enjoy peace and happiness in his eternal Heaven after
death? And why does he keep all this a secret by preventing communication
with our dead parents, siblings and friends?
If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent god. Nor is he an "Intelligent Designer". The
objective evidence is that, if there is a god creator, he has NO concern
about the welfare of the creatures on Earth.
The objective evidence is that no god created man but quite the opposite;
that man created gods!
Post by jd
Post by Bill
Where is your objective evidence that Jesus is god?
where is your objective evidence that Jesus Christ actually existed?
The Bibles are not objective evidence, they are just myths, legends and
men's unsubstantiated opinions.
There not even coherent or intelligent.
Post by fred
God gave us an imagination powerful enough to "create" gods. This same
imagination likewise creates meaningless religious rituals by which to
worship those gods.
In contrast, the God of the Bible wants us to worship him in faith
(Hebrews 11:6) by accepting his Son Jesus (Revelation 3:20).
Unfortunately, people tend to put their faith in anything but Jesus
Christ these days.
AcesLucky
2005-07-04 01:56:39 UTC
Permalink
Since neither you nor any other person has been able to prove
God, why is YOUR imagination the true god whilst the other's
imagination false?

And...

Eating a cracker while pretending it's god's body and drinking
wine while pretending it's god's blood seems like a meaningless
ritual too, don't you think?

---
Post by fred
God gave us an imagination powerful enough to "create" gods. This same
imagination likewise creates meaningless religious rituals by which to
worship those gods.
In contrast, the God of the Bible wants us to worship him in faith
(Hebrews 11:6) by accepting his Son Jesus (Revelation 3:20).
Unfortunately, people tend to put their faith in anything but Jesus
Christ these days.
fred
2005-07-04 02:34:45 UTC
Permalink
God actually chewed out the ancient Israelites for contemplating God
with their imaginations as opposed to their faith. And the problem
with using faith is that people often substitute their imaginations
instead of using their faith when it comes to dealing with abstract
ideas.
Bill
2005-07-04 15:40:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by fred
God actually chewed out the ancient Israelites for contemplating God
with their imaginations as opposed to their faith. And the problem
with using faith is that people often substitute their imaginations
instead of using their faith when it comes to dealing with abstract
ideas.
Say what !???
fred
2005-07-05 22:14:05 UTC
Permalink
Say Isaiah 65:2
AcesLucky
2005-07-04 19:35:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by fred
God actually chewed out the ancient Israelites for contemplating God
with their imaginations as opposed to their faith. And the problem
with using faith is that people often substitute their imaginations
instead of using their faith when it comes to dealing with abstract
ideas.
Hi Fred. I think you're sarcastically illustrating the point that
there's no difference (but it's almost difficult to catch), so the post
below is for Bill whom I'm sure won't get your post; so it's for his
benefit, okay?

dictionary:

imagine, (verb). Merriam-Webster's Dictionary & Thesaurus
1. to form a mental picture of something not present.
2. THINK, GUESS, <I imagine it will rain>.


thesaurus:

imagine, (v). conceive, picture, conjure up, envisage, envision, see in
one's mind, invent fabricate, formulate, devise, think of, make up,
conceptualize, dream, perceive, dramatize, create.

imagined, (a). not real, insubstantial, thought up; see false 1,2,3,
imaginary.


faith, (Holy Bible) Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things
not seen.


NOW: The evidence of things HOPED FOR (sounds like imagination), but for
which NO evidence can be seen, is what...?

Seems like a perfect case of dramatized mental formulation. It's called
imagination, thought up, formulated, invented, fabricated...
fred
2005-07-05 22:20:56 UTC
Permalink
For clarification, God endowed our minds with both faith and
imagination. However, with respect to contemplating spiritual things
imagination doesn't impress God (Isaiah 65:2) whereas faith does
(Hebrews 11:6). The problem is that people unwittingly use their
imaginations when contemplating God instead of using their faith. This
makes both God and people who worship God look bad.
Mary Walker
2005-07-06 06:32:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by fred
For clarification, God endowed our minds with both faith and
imagination. However, with respect to contemplating spiritual things
imagination doesn't impress God (Isaiah 65:2) whereas faith does
(Hebrews 11:6). The problem is that people unwittingly use their
imaginations when contemplating God instead of using their faith. This
makes both God and people who worship God look bad.
And what planet are you from?
AcesLucky
2005-07-06 11:50:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by fred
For clarification, God endowed our minds with both faith and
imagination. However, with respect to contemplating spiritual things
imagination doesn't impress God (Isaiah 65:2) whereas faith does
(Hebrews 11:6). The problem is that people unwittingly use their
imaginations when contemplating God instead of using their faith. This
makes both God and people who worship God look bad.
Ooops. I thought your post was meant to be sarcastic to show the obvious
flaw in that line of thinking; but now I see you're for real.

Okay. In that case, the post is for you too.

Imagination allows us to explore possibility. It also allows us to
explore fantasy. It allows us to PRETEND all possibilities.

FAITH, on the other hand, is a form of imagination that LIMITS all
possibilities except the one told by the brain washer.

If there be a Devil, its most perfect tool of deception would be faith
because it precludes truth in favor of belief.

If there be a God, however, its most perfect tool for discovery of truth
would be skepticism because truth is not subject to belief; it IS.


Faith closes the mind to possibility because it assumes the thing
believed is the only thing that's right - even when the evidence shows
it's wrong.

Faith precludes learning; it shuts learning down and forces the believer
into a closed mind. Faith is the killer of Man (i.e., Muslims,
Christians, Jews; all killers believing they are God's chosen).

Faith is the mother of superstition; skepticism is the mother of science.

--
"Honesty undermines every religion save one; and that's the TRUTH."
AcesLucky
Pastor Frank
2005-07-04 13:56:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by AcesLucky
Since neither you nor any other person has been able to prove
God, why is YOUR imagination the true god whilst the other's
imagination false?
And...
Eating a cracker while pretending it's god's body and drinking
wine while pretending it's god's blood seems like a meaningless
ritual too, don't you think?
So is singing the national anthem with your hand on your chest etc. etc.
ad infinitum. If you know the meaning of the gesture or ritual, then it
makes sense, conversely if you don't, then it's a "meaningless ritual".
"Don't you think"? Don't think too hard. or it might break your head.
AcesLucky
2005-07-04 23:25:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by AcesLucky
Since neither you nor any other person has been able to prove
God, why is YOUR imagination the true god whilst the other's
imagination false?
And...
Eating a cracker while pretending it's god's body and drinking
wine while pretending it's god's blood seems like a meaningless
ritual too, don't you think?
So is singing the national anthem with your hand on your chest etc. etc.
ad infinitum. If you know the meaning of the gesture or ritual, then it
makes sense, conversely if you don't, then it's a "meaningless ritual".
"Don't you think"? Don't think too hard. or it might break your head.
Okay;

1. why is YOUR imagination the true god whilst the other's false, and
2. what is the meaning of symbolically eating god?

Sincerely,
"Trying not to think too hard as per your instructions."
Eric Brze
2005-07-05 05:30:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by AcesLucky
2. what is the meaning of symbolically eating god?
God is love who gives life. The body of Christ is life. The blood of
Christ is love. It means through Christ we receive the love of God to
have life in God.
Post by AcesLucky
Sincerely,
"Trying not to think too hard as per your instructions."
AcesLucky
2005-07-05 19:12:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
2. what is the meaning of symbolically eating god?
God is love who gives life. The body of Christ is life. The blood of
Christ is love. It means through Christ we receive the love of God to
have life in God.
Post by AcesLucky
Sincerely,
"Trying not to think too hard as per your instructions."
Thank you Eric.

That was a really beautiful description of cannibalism.

Does it work? Do believers in this ritual really live longer than
others? And would you really seek to eat his body and drink his blood in
real life?

You really don't see something wrong with this picture?
Eric Brze
2005-07-05 22:07:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
2. what is the meaning of symbolically eating god?
God is love who gives life. The body of Christ is life. The blood of
Christ is love. It means through Christ we receive the love of God to
have life in God.
Post by AcesLucky
Sincerely,
"Trying not to think too hard as per your instructions."
Thank you Eric.
You are welcome.
Post by AcesLucky
That was a really beautiful description of cannibalism.
It has nothing to do with cannibalism.
Post by AcesLucky
Does it work?
You tell me. I'm not a Catholic. I don't get the privilege to
participate even in Sunday meetings of my local baptism Church, cause
I'm not a protestant either. :-(

:-)

Do believers in this ritual really live longer than
Post by AcesLucky
others? And would you really seek to eat his body and drink his blood in
real life?
Personally, I do seek to receive more love of Christ to have more life
in Christ. I don't want to prolong my physical life on earth one
moment longer than it is necessary, but I am sure that by receiving
more love from Christ, I will have more chance toward freedom.
Post by AcesLucky
You really don't see something wrong with this picture?
Your picture is twisted by the water in the lake. Look up, that is
where the Moon actually is.

:-)
AcesLucky
2005-07-06 12:19:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
2. what is the meaning of symbolically eating god?
God is love who gives life. The body of Christ is life. The blood of
Christ is love. It means through Christ we receive the love of God to
have life in God.
Post by AcesLucky
Sincerely,
"Trying not to think too hard as per your instructions."
Thank you Eric.
You are welcome.
Post by AcesLucky
That was a really beautiful description of cannibalism.
It has nothing to do with cannibalism.
Post by AcesLucky
Does it work?
You tell me. I'm not a Catholic. I don't get the privilege to
participate even in Sunday meetings of my local baptism Church, cause
I'm not a protestant either. :-(
:-)
Do believers in this ritual really live longer than
Post by AcesLucky
others? And would you really seek to eat his body and drink his blood in
real life?
Personally, I do seek to receive more love of Christ to have more life
in Christ. I don't want to prolong my physical life on earth one
moment longer than it is necessary, but I am sure that by receiving
more love from Christ, I will have more chance toward freedom.
Post by AcesLucky
You really don't see something wrong with this picture?
Your picture is twisted by the water in the lake. Look up, that is
where the Moon actually is.
:-)
I like that.

But we did look up. Just the other day we rammed a space probe into a
comet. The objective is to see what's inside of it.

Religion? No. SCIENCE!

Science says, let's find out the truth about the world around us.

Religion says, let's believe in ancient folklore so we can live forever.

Just curious: How do think those ancients would describe a cell-phone or
a walkie-talkie today? Something from God, or the Devil? Don't you see,
prior to science, superstition was the only way they could describe the
world around them. Seriously! Can't you see this?

PS: We know precisely where the Moon is, and we're looking WAY past it.
Bill
2005-07-06 15:54:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
2. what is the meaning of symbolically eating god?
God is love who gives life. The body of Christ is life. The blood of
Christ is love. It means through Christ we receive the love of God to
have life in God.
Post by AcesLucky
Sincerely,
"Trying not to think too hard as per your instructions."
Thank you Eric.
You are welcome.
Post by AcesLucky
That was a really beautiful description of cannibalism.
It has nothing to do with cannibalism.
Post by AcesLucky
Does it work?
You tell me. I'm not a Catholic. I don't get the privilege to
participate even in Sunday meetings of my local baptism Church, cause
I'm not a protestant either. :-(
:-)
Do believers in this ritual really live longer than
Post by AcesLucky
others? And would you really seek to eat his body and drink his blood in
real life?
Personally, I do seek to receive more love of Christ to have more life
in Christ. I don't want to prolong my physical life on earth one
moment longer than it is necessary, but I am sure that by receiving
more love from Christ, I will have more chance toward freedom.
Post by AcesLucky
You really don't see something wrong with this picture?
Your picture is twisted by the water in the lake. Look up, that is
where the Moon actually is.
:-)
I like that.
But we did look up. Just the other day we rammed a space probe into a
comet. The objective is to see what's inside of it.
Religion? No. SCIENCE!
Science says, let's find out the truth about the world around us.
Religion says, let's believe in ancient folklore so we can live forever.
Just curious: How do think those ancients would describe a cell-phone or a
walkie-talkie today? Something from God, or the Devil? Don't you see,
prior to science, superstition was the only way they could describe the
world around them. Seriously! Can't you see this?
PS: We know precisely where the Moon is, and we're looking WAY past it.
I would like to compliment you on making such a logical and meaningful
response.

Unfortunately many religious fanatics do not think or deal in logic but only
in faith and myths.

I suspect that this is caused by their almost panic fear of death and it's
finality. They just must shield themselves from this panic fear by believing
in a wonderful hereafter.
Eric Brze
2005-07-06 19:58:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
2. what is the meaning of symbolically eating god?
God is love who gives life. The body of Christ is life. The blood of
Christ is love. It means through Christ we receive the love of God to
have life in God.
Post by AcesLucky
Sincerely,
"Trying not to think too hard as per your instructions."
Thank you Eric.
You are welcome.
Post by AcesLucky
That was a really beautiful description of cannibalism.
It has nothing to do with cannibalism.
Post by AcesLucky
Does it work?
You tell me. I'm not a Catholic. I don't get the privilege to
participate even in Sunday meetings of my local baptism Church, cause
I'm not a protestant either. :-(
:-)
Do believers in this ritual really live longer than
Post by AcesLucky
others? And would you really seek to eat his body and drink his blood in
real life?
Personally, I do seek to receive more love of Christ to have more life
in Christ. I don't want to prolong my physical life on earth one
moment longer than it is necessary, but I am sure that by receiving
more love from Christ, I will have more chance toward freedom.
Post by AcesLucky
You really don't see something wrong with this picture?
Your picture is twisted by the water in the lake. Look up, that is
where the Moon actually is.
:-)
I like that.
But we did look up.
Not good enough. By looking up, I mean looking up spiritually.

Just the other day we rammed a space probe into a
Post by AcesLucky
comet. The objective is to see what's inside of it.
Religion? No. SCIENCE!
Apples and oranges.
Post by AcesLucky
Science says, let's find out the truth about the world around us.
That's physical/natural truth. It's conditional and temporary.
Post by AcesLucky
Religion says, let's believe in ancient folklore so we can live forever.
Religion deals with the spiritual truth. It's unconditional and
eternal.
Post by AcesLucky
Just curious: How do think those ancients would describe a cell-phone or
a walkie-talkie today? Something from God, or the Devil? Don't you see,
prior to science, superstition was the only way they could describe the
world around them. Seriously! Can't you see this?
I see it. What you describe is something that can happen to any
uneducated or uninformed person, not just the ancients, and it's not
limited to religious people.
Post by AcesLucky
PS: We know precisely where the Moon is, and we're looking WAY past it.
That is not what I meant.
AcesLucky
2005-07-06 23:27:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
2. what is the meaning of symbolically eating god?
God is love who gives life. The body of Christ is life. The blood of
Christ is love. It means through Christ we receive the love of God to
have life in God.
Post by AcesLucky
Sincerely,
"Trying not to think too hard as per your instructions."
Thank you Eric.
You are welcome.
Post by AcesLucky
That was a really beautiful description of cannibalism.
It has nothing to do with cannibalism.
Post by AcesLucky
Does it work?
You tell me. I'm not a Catholic. I don't get the privilege to
participate even in Sunday meetings of my local baptism Church, cause
I'm not a protestant either. :-(
:-)
Do believers in this ritual really live longer than
Post by AcesLucky
others? And would you really seek to eat his body and drink his blood in
real life?
Personally, I do seek to receive more love of Christ to have more life
in Christ. I don't want to prolong my physical life on earth one
moment longer than it is necessary, but I am sure that by receiving
more love from Christ, I will have more chance toward freedom.
Post by AcesLucky
You really don't see something wrong with this picture?
Your picture is twisted by the water in the lake. Look up, that is
where the Moon actually is.
:-)
I like that.
But we did look up.
Not good enough. By looking up, I mean looking up spiritually.
Yes, the spiritual... A Jew, a Muslim, and a Christian, all looking up
to the spiritual truths that keep them killing each other in God's name.

If the spiritual "up" is up there, wouldn't they all be seeing or
hearing the same thing from God? But it's quite the opposite, isn't it?
Post by Eric Brze
Just the other day we rammed a space probe into a
Post by AcesLucky
comet. The objective is to see what's inside of it.
Religion? No. SCIENCE!
Apples and oranges.
I agree. Fiction based on closed-minded belief, vs. fact based on
objective observation. You are certainly correct.
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Science says, let's find out the truth about the world around us.
That's physical/natural truth. It's conditional and temporary.
If you found an UN-natural truth, that's unconditional and permanent,
you've just won a million dollars. Seriously! Just go to
http://www.randi.org to collect. The money is already there.

All you have to do is DEMONSTRATE any of what you stated!
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Religion says, let's believe in ancient folklore so we can live forever.
Religion deals with the spiritual truth. It's unconditional and
eternal.
See above challenge. Do something for the world and demonstrate an
eternal, spiritual truth.
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Just curious: How do think those ancients would describe a cell-phone or
a walkie-talkie today? Something from God, or the Devil? Don't you see,
prior to science, superstition was the only way they could describe the
world around them. Seriously! Can't you see this?
I see it. What you describe is something that can happen to any
uneducated or uninformed person, not just the ancients, and it's not
limited to religious people.
Agreed.
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
PS: We know precisely where the Moon is, and we're looking WAY past it.
That is not what I meant.
Eric Brze
2005-07-07 00:37:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
But we did look up.
Not good enough. By looking up, I mean looking up spiritually.
Yes, the spiritual... A Jew, a Muslim, and a Christian, all looking up
to the spiritual truths that keep them killing each other in God's name.
Truth does not kill life. Truth only saves life. If you see people
killing people in the name of truth, you know their truth is the false
truth.
Post by AcesLucky
If the spiritual "up" is up there, wouldn't they all be seeing or
hearing the same thing from God? But it's quite the opposite, isn't it?
The spiritual "up" is not up there in the sky. It's up in spirit. It's
by the good spirit, we find the truth. If it's the evil spirit, there
can be no truth ever found.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Just the other day we rammed a space probe into a
Post by AcesLucky
comet. The objective is to see what's inside of it.
Religion? No. SCIENCE!
Apples and oranges.
I agree. Fiction based on closed-minded belief, vs. fact based on
objective observation. You are certainly correct.
No, that's not what I meant. It's spiritual vs. physical.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Science says, let's find out the truth about the world around us.
That's physical/natural truth. It's conditional and temporary.
If you found an UN-natural truth, that's unconditional and permanent,
Sorry, unnatural truth is also conditional and temporary. It is not
very different from its natural counterpart except it's unnatural.
Post by AcesLucky
you've just won a million dollars. Seriously! Just go to
http://www.randi.org to collect. The money is already there.
All you have to do is DEMONSTRATE any of what you stated!
Why? what I've stated is not rocket science. There is nothing
difficult to understand.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Religion says, let's believe in ancient folklore so we can live forever.
Religion deals with the spiritual truth. It's unconditional and
eternal.
See above challenge. Do something for the world and demonstrate an
eternal, spiritual truth.
Sorry, it's not for demonstration purpose. It's for saving lives and
making peace. Not for show business.
AcesLucky
2005-07-07 04:07:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
But we did look up.
Not good enough. By looking up, I mean looking up spiritually.
Yes, the spiritual... A Jew, a Muslim, and a Christian, all looking up
to the spiritual truths that keep them killing each other in God's name.
Truth does not kill life. Truth only saves life. If you see people
killing people in the name of truth, you know their truth is the false
truth.
Exactly.
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
If the spiritual "up" is up there, wouldn't they all be seeing or
hearing the same thing from God? But it's quite the opposite, isn't it?
The spiritual "up" is not up there in the sky. It's up in spirit. It's
by the good spirit, we find the truth. If it's the evil spirit, there
can be no truth ever found.
Yes; if "up in spirit" is where "we find the truth", why do the Jews,
Muslims, and Christians seek to kill whoever doesn't see their spiritual
truth? If "up in spirit" is really "true" they'd all see the same truth,
since it's from God; correct?

If it's true, wouldn't it be the same for all? Or are you correct when
you say "If it's the evil spirit, there can be no truth ever found."
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Just the other day we rammed a space probe into a
Post by AcesLucky
comet. The objective is to see what's inside of it.
Religion? No. SCIENCE!
Apples and oranges.
I agree. Fiction based on closed-minded belief, vs. fact based on
objective observation. You are certainly correct.
No, that's not what I meant. It's spiritual vs. physical.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Science says, let's find out the truth about the world around us.
That's physical/natural truth. It's conditional and temporary.
If you found an UN-natural truth, that's unconditional and permanent,
Sorry, unnatural truth is also conditional and temporary. It is not
very different from its natural counterpart except it's unnatural.
It's minor, but my point was that there's no such thing an an un-natural
truth. If it's true, it's natural. (But I'm open to learning more. So by
all means, can you give me an example of an un-natural truth?) If not
don't worry about it; it's very minor. Or a supernatural 'spiritual'
truth would be fine too.
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
you've just won a million dollars. Seriously! Just go to
http://www.randi.org to collect. The money is already there.
All you have to do is DEMONSTRATE any of what you stated!
Why? what I've stated is not rocket science. There is nothing
difficult to understand.
Um. For the money, and to prove everyone wrong, that there ARE
supernatural spiritual truths that AREN'T a figment of your (plural)
imaginations. Do it for the advancement of Humankind. Do it because it's
the right thing to do. Do it so you can be famous. Do it for God and
country. Do it for Bush!
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Religion says, let's believe in ancient folklore so we can live forever.
Religion deals with the spiritual truth. It's unconditional and
eternal.
See above challenge. Do something for the world and demonstrate an
eternal, spiritual truth.
Sorry, it's not for demonstration purpose. It's for saving lives and
making peace. Not for show business.
If it can't be demonstrated, what good is it?
(20 years from now, you'll answer that question honestly.)
Eric Brze
2005-07-07 09:46:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
But we did look up.
Not good enough. By looking up, I mean looking up spiritually.
Yes, the spiritual... A Jew, a Muslim, and a Christian, all looking up
to the spiritual truths that keep them killing each other in God's name.
Truth does not kill life. Truth only saves life. If you see people
killing people in the name of truth, you know their truth is the false
truth.
Exactly.
Good.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
If the spiritual "up" is up there, wouldn't they all be seeing or
hearing the same thing from God? But it's quite the opposite, isn't it?
The spiritual "up" is not up there in the sky. It's up in spirit. It's
by the good spirit, we find the truth. If it's the evil spirit, there
can be no truth ever found.
Yes; if "up in spirit" is where "we find the truth", why do the Jews,
Muslims, and Christians seek to kill whoever doesn't see their spiritual
truth? If "up in spirit" is really "true" they'd all see the same truth,
since it's from God; correct?
Absolutely. They would all see the same truth and lay down their
weapons.
Post by AcesLucky
If it's true, wouldn't it be the same for all? Or are you correct when
you say "If it's the evil spirit, there can be no truth ever found."
Absolutely again. Of course I'm correct. :-)
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Just the other day we rammed a space probe into a
Post by AcesLucky
comet. The objective is to see what's inside of it.
Religion? No. SCIENCE!
Apples and oranges.
I agree. Fiction based on closed-minded belief, vs. fact based on
objective observation. You are certainly correct.
No, that's not what I meant. It's spiritual vs. physical.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Science says, let's find out the truth about the world around us.
That's physical/natural truth. It's conditional and temporary.
If you found an UN-natural truth, that's unconditional and permanent,
Sorry, unnatural truth is also conditional and temporary. It is not
very different from its natural counterpart except it's unnatural.
It's minor, but my point was that there's no such thing an an un-natural
truth. If it's true, it's natural. (But I'm open to learning more. So by
all means, can you give me an example of an un-natural truth?) If not
don't worry about it; it's very minor. Or a supernatural 'spiritual'
truth would be fine too.
Under natural environment, we find natural truth. Under unnatural
environment, we find unnatural truth. There is nothing to be
surprised. The spiritual truth is the truth under all conditions. No
need to go supernatural either.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
you've just won a million dollars. Seriously! Just go to
http://www.randi.org to collect. The money is already there.
All you have to do is DEMONSTRATE any of what you stated!
Why? what I've stated is not rocket science. There is nothing
difficult to understand.
Um. For the money, and to prove everyone wrong, that there ARE
supernatural spiritual truths that AREN'T a figment of your (plural)
imaginations. Do it for the advancement of Humankind. Do it because it's
the right thing to do. Do it so you can be famous. Do it for God and
country. Do it for Bush!
Fuck Bush! Because of him, I will never do it. :-)
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Religion says, let's believe in ancient folklore so we can live forever.
Religion deals with the spiritual truth. It's unconditional and
eternal.
See above challenge. Do something for the world and demonstrate an
eternal, spiritual truth.
Sorry, it's not for demonstration purpose. It's for saving lives and
making peace. Not for show business.
If it can't be demonstrated, what good is it?
(20 years from now, you'll answer that question honestly.)
I'm not sure I can remember this conversation 20 days from now. 20
years? I hope I'm not dead already.
AcesLucky
2005-07-07 11:24:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
But we did look up.
Not good enough. By looking up, I mean looking up spiritually.
Yes, the spiritual... A Jew, a Muslim, and a Christian, all looking up
to the spiritual truths that keep them killing each other in God's name.
Truth does not kill life. Truth only saves life. If you see people
killing people in the name of truth, you know their truth is the false
truth.
Exactly.
Good.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
If the spiritual "up" is up there, wouldn't they all be seeing or
hearing the same thing from God? But it's quite the opposite, isn't it?
The spiritual "up" is not up there in the sky. It's up in spirit. It's
by the good spirit, we find the truth. If it's the evil spirit, there
can be no truth ever found.
Yes; if "up in spirit" is where "we find the truth", why do the Jews,
Muslims, and Christians seek to kill whoever doesn't see their spiritual
truth? If "up in spirit" is really "true" they'd all see the same truth,
since it's from God; correct?
Absolutely. They would all see the same truth and lay down their
weapons.
Post by AcesLucky
If it's true, wouldn't it be the same for all? Or are you correct when
you say "If it's the evil spirit, there can be no truth ever found."
Absolutely again. Of course I'm correct. :-)
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Just the other day we rammed a space probe into a
Post by AcesLucky
comet. The objective is to see what's inside of it.
Religion? No. SCIENCE!
Apples and oranges.
I agree. Fiction based on closed-minded belief, vs. fact based on
objective observation. You are certainly correct.
No, that's not what I meant. It's spiritual vs. physical.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Science says, let's find out the truth about the world around us.
That's physical/natural truth. It's conditional and temporary.
If you found an UN-natural truth, that's unconditional and permanent,
Sorry, unnatural truth is also conditional and temporary. It is not
very different from its natural counterpart except it's unnatural.
It's minor, but my point was that there's no such thing an an un-natural
truth. If it's true, it's natural. (But I'm open to learning more. So by
all means, can you give me an example of an un-natural truth?) If not
don't worry about it; it's very minor. Or a supernatural 'spiritual'
truth would be fine too.
Under natural environment, we find natural truth. Under unnatural
environment, we find unnatural truth. There is nothing to be
surprised. The spiritual truth is the truth under all conditions. No
need to go supernatural either.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
you've just won a million dollars. Seriously! Just go to
http://www.randi.org to collect. The money is already there.
All you have to do is DEMONSTRATE any of what you stated!
Why? what I've stated is not rocket science. There is nothing
difficult to understand.
Um. For the money, and to prove everyone wrong, that there ARE
supernatural spiritual truths that AREN'T a figment of your (plural)
imaginations. Do it for the advancement of Humankind. Do it because it's
the right thing to do. Do it so you can be famous. Do it for God and
country. Do it for Bush!
Fuck Bush! Because of him, I will never do it. :-)
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Religion says, let's believe in ancient folklore so we can live forever.
Religion deals with the spiritual truth. It's unconditional and
eternal.
See above challenge. Do something for the world and demonstrate an
eternal, spiritual truth.
Sorry, it's not for demonstration purpose. It's for saving lives and
making peace. Not for show business.
If it can't be demonstrated, what good is it?
(20 years from now, you'll answer that question honestly.)
I'm not sure I can remember this conversation 20 days from now. 20
years? I hope I'm not dead already.
---
Ok then.

I think we're in major agreement on several issues:

1. There is no spiritual truth that can be demonstrated.
2. Neither Jews, Muslims, nor Christians have any spiritual truth, since
they kill each other.
3. Science seeks truth and often finds it (our tech advances attest).
4. Religion cannot find truth, certainly not yet by faith.
5. Some Christians symbolically eat the body of Christ, but they won't
call it symbolic cannibalism.
6. Symbolic cannibalism doesn't appear to work, since it doesn't give
them the extra life they do it for.
7. God is the eternal source of life. (As a source of Love ??, it
doesn't appear that way.)

And, Oh yea; that thing about Bush.
Apostle Keith Williams
2005-07-07 07:28:41 UTC
Permalink
In order to gain eternal life, we must take up with God.
God likes holiness and righteousness.
God is God over all life, and we are God's offspring.
Seek God, and beware of creeds and doctrines.
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
But we did look up.
Not good enough. By looking up, I mean looking up spiritually.
Yes, the spiritual... A Jew, a Muslim, and a Christian, all looking up
to the spiritual truths that keep them killing each other in God's name.
Truth does not kill life. Truth only saves life. If you see people
killing people in the name of truth, you know their truth is the false
truth.
Post by AcesLucky
If the spiritual "up" is up there, wouldn't they all be seeing or
hearing the same thing from God? But it's quite the opposite, isn't it?
The spiritual "up" is not up there in the sky. It's up in spirit. It's
by the good spirit, we find the truth. If it's the evil spirit, there
can be no truth ever found.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Just the other day we rammed a space probe into a
Post by AcesLucky
comet. The objective is to see what's inside of it.
Religion? No. SCIENCE!
Apples and oranges.
I agree. Fiction based on closed-minded belief, vs. fact based on
objective observation. You are certainly correct.
No, that's not what I meant. It's spiritual vs. physical.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Science says, let's find out the truth about the world around us.
That's physical/natural truth. It's conditional and temporary.
If you found an UN-natural truth, that's unconditional and permanent,
Sorry, unnatural truth is also conditional and temporary. It is not
very different from its natural counterpart except it's unnatural.
Post by AcesLucky
you've just won a million dollars. Seriously! Just go to
http://www.randi.org to collect. The money is already there.
All you have to do is DEMONSTRATE any of what you stated!
Why? what I've stated is not rocket science. There is nothing
difficult to understand.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Religion says, let's believe in ancient folklore so we can live forever.
Religion deals with the spiritual truth. It's unconditional and
eternal.
See above challenge. Do something for the world and demonstrate an
eternal, spiritual truth.
Sorry, it's not for demonstration purpose. It's for saving lives and
making peace. Not for show business.
Bill
2005-07-09 00:45:11 UTC
Permalink
Firstly, of the thousands of god beliefs which is the real god, if any, and
which are fakes?

If there is a real god that created the world, why did he create it so
dysfunctional with millions dying from wars, diseases, natural disasters and
pestilences? Especially why does this god allow millions of innocent
children to die
every years from starvation, disasters and disease? Why does he allow
millions to be born with serious and punishing imperfections?

If there is a real god he certainly appears either grossly incompetent or is
a mean uncaring bastard!
Post by Apostle Keith Williams
In order to gain eternal life, we must take up with God.
God likes holiness and righteousness.
God is God over all life, and we are God's offspring.
Seek God, and beware of creeds and doctrines.
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
But we did look up.
Not good enough. By looking up, I mean looking up spiritually.
Yes, the spiritual... A Jew, a Muslim, and a Christian, all looking up
to the spiritual truths that keep them killing each other in God's name.
Truth does not kill life. Truth only saves life. If you see people
killing people in the name of truth, you know their truth is the false
truth.
Post by AcesLucky
If the spiritual "up" is up there, wouldn't they all be seeing or
hearing the same thing from God? But it's quite the opposite, isn't it?
The spiritual "up" is not up there in the sky. It's up in spirit. It's
by the good spirit, we find the truth. If it's the evil spirit, there
can be no truth ever found.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Just the other day we rammed a space probe into a
Post by AcesLucky
comet. The objective is to see what's inside of it.
Religion? No. SCIENCE!
Apples and oranges.
I agree. Fiction based on closed-minded belief, vs. fact based on
objective observation. You are certainly correct.
No, that's not what I meant. It's spiritual vs. physical.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Science says, let's find out the truth about the world around us.
That's physical/natural truth. It's conditional and temporary.
If you found an UN-natural truth, that's unconditional and permanent,
Sorry, unnatural truth is also conditional and temporary. It is not
very different from its natural counterpart except it's unnatural.
Post by AcesLucky
you've just won a million dollars. Seriously! Just go to
http://www.randi.org to collect. The money is already there.
All you have to do is DEMONSTRATE any of what you stated!
Why? what I've stated is not rocket science. There is nothing
difficult to understand.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Religion says, let's believe in ancient folklore so we can live
forever.
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Religion deals with the spiritual truth. It's unconditional and
eternal.
See above challenge. Do something for the world and demonstrate an
eternal, spiritual truth.
Sorry, it's not for demonstration purpose. It's for saving lives and
making peace. Not for show business.
bckwrds
2005-07-09 03:40:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
Firstly, of the thousands of god beliefs which is the real god, if any,
and which are fakes?
There is only one God, Bill.
Post by Bill
If there is a real god that created the world, why did he create it so
dysfunctional with millions dying from wars, diseases, natural disasters
and pestilences?
God created a perfect world. It's us people who are dysfunctional.
Post by Bill
Especially why does this god allow millions of innocent children to die
every years from starvation, disasters and disease? Why does he allow
millions to be born with serious and punishing imperfections?
Again, this is a people problem. A lot of us are trying to stop
the starvations and other tragedy's. As far as those born with
problems, think of how far we have come! Many diseases are
no longer and we're still working on finding cures for others.
God gave us all a brain....many have chosen to use them.
Post by Bill
If there is a real god he certainly appears either grossly incompetent or
is a mean uncaring bastard!
What has happened in your life, Bill, that you now blame God?
Much has happened in my life that still saddens me but God did
not do the things that are now making me sad. People did the
things that have broken my heart. People who didn't use their
brains. People who only thought of themselves. But I'm still
here, thanks to God.

bckwrds
Bill
2005-07-09 23:54:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by bckwrds
Post by Bill
Firstly, of the thousands of god beliefs which is the real god, if any,
and which are fakes?
There is only one God, Bill.
Post by Bill
If there is a real god that created the world, why did he create it so
dysfunctional with millions dying from wars, diseases, natural disasters
and pestilences?
God created a perfect world. It's us people who are dysfunctional.
Post by Bill
Especially why does this god allow millions of innocent children to die
every years from starvation, disasters and disease? Why does he allow
millions to be born with serious and punishing imperfections?
Again, this is a people problem. A lot of us are trying to stop
the starvations and other tragedy's. As far as those born with
problems, think of how far we have come! Many diseases are
no longer and we're still working on finding cures for others.
God gave us all a brain....many have chosen to use them.
Wow! Men invent and create cures for diseases and you feel compelled to
credit some mythical
guy in the sky.
Post by bckwrds
Post by Bill
If there is a real god he certainly appears either grossly incompetent or
is a mean uncaring bastard!
What has happened in your life, Bill, that you now blame God?
Much has happened in my life that still saddens me but God did
not do the things that are now making me sad. People did the
things that have broken my heart. People who didn't use their
brains. People who only thought of themselves. But I'm still
here, thanks to God.
bckwrds
I'm 80 years old and have been an atheist for 65 of those years.
I have lived a life of comparative wealth and good health.

However, I have seen thousands of others who live lives of shear misery.
I see millions of innocent children suffer from diseases and die each year
while others prosper and ignore the plight of others.

It does not take a genius to see that this world was not created by an all
caring, all
loving, all powerful god. Of all the different god beliefs, if there is a
real god, why does he not
announce directly from his heaven that he is the real god and all the others
are fakes?

It is quite obvious that god did not create man, but that man created gods.
Apostle Keith Williams
2005-07-07 07:39:34 UTC
Permalink
God is the Christian God, and God does judgments on people
who are against Him, and blesses His faithful children.
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
But we did look up.
Not good enough. By looking up, I mean looking up spiritually.
Yes, the spiritual... A Jew, a Muslim, and a Christian, all looking up
to the spiritual truths that keep them killing each other in God's name.
Truth does not kill life. Truth only saves life. If you see people
killing people in the name of truth, you know their truth is the false
truth.
Post by AcesLucky
If the spiritual "up" is up there, wouldn't they all be seeing or
hearing the same thing from God? But it's quite the opposite, isn't it?
The spiritual "up" is not up there in the sky. It's up in spirit. It's
by the good spirit, we find the truth. If it's the evil spirit, there
can be no truth ever found.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Just the other day we rammed a space probe into a
Post by AcesLucky
comet. The objective is to see what's inside of it.
Religion? No. SCIENCE!
Apples and oranges.
I agree. Fiction based on closed-minded belief, vs. fact based on
objective observation. You are certainly correct.
No, that's not what I meant. It's spiritual vs. physical.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Science says, let's find out the truth about the world around us.
That's physical/natural truth. It's conditional and temporary.
If you found an UN-natural truth, that's unconditional and permanent,
Sorry, unnatural truth is also conditional and temporary. It is not
very different from its natural counterpart except it's unnatural.
Post by AcesLucky
you've just won a million dollars. Seriously! Just go to
http://www.randi.org to collect. The money is already there.
All you have to do is DEMONSTRATE any of what you stated!
Why? what I've stated is not rocket science. There is nothing
difficult to understand.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Religion says, let's believe in ancient folklore so we can live forever.
Religion deals with the spiritual truth. It's unconditional and
eternal.
See above challenge. Do something for the world and demonstrate an
eternal, spiritual truth.
Sorry, it's not for demonstration purpose. It's for saving lives and
making peace. Not for show business.
Eric Brze
2005-07-07 09:32:02 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 03:39:34 -0400, "Apostle Keith Williams"
Post by Apostle Keith Williams
God is the Christian God, and God does judgments on people
who are against Him, and blesses His faithful children.
By Christian God, I suppose you mean Christ, right? Christ is my God.
There is no other.
Post by Apostle Keith Williams
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
But we did look up.
Not good enough. By looking up, I mean looking up spiritually.
Yes, the spiritual... A Jew, a Muslim, and a Christian, all looking up
to the spiritual truths that keep them killing each other in God's name.
Truth does not kill life. Truth only saves life. If you see people
killing people in the name of truth, you know their truth is the false
truth.
Post by AcesLucky
If the spiritual "up" is up there, wouldn't they all be seeing or
hearing the same thing from God? But it's quite the opposite, isn't it?
The spiritual "up" is not up there in the sky. It's up in spirit. It's
by the good spirit, we find the truth. If it's the evil spirit, there
can be no truth ever found.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Just the other day we rammed a space probe into a
Post by AcesLucky
comet. The objective is to see what's inside of it.
Religion? No. SCIENCE!
Apples and oranges.
I agree. Fiction based on closed-minded belief, vs. fact based on
objective observation. You are certainly correct.
No, that's not what I meant. It's spiritual vs. physical.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Science says, let's find out the truth about the world around us.
That's physical/natural truth. It's conditional and temporary.
If you found an UN-natural truth, that's unconditional and permanent,
Sorry, unnatural truth is also conditional and temporary. It is not
very different from its natural counterpart except it's unnatural.
Post by AcesLucky
you've just won a million dollars. Seriously! Just go to
http://www.randi.org to collect. The money is already there.
All you have to do is DEMONSTRATE any of what you stated!
Why? what I've stated is not rocket science. There is nothing
difficult to understand.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Religion says, let's believe in ancient folklore so we can live
forever.
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Religion deals with the spiritual truth. It's unconditional and
eternal.
See above challenge. Do something for the world and demonstrate an
eternal, spiritual truth.
Sorry, it's not for demonstration purpose. It's for saving lives and
making peace. Not for show business.
Bill
2005-07-09 00:50:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Brze
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 03:39:34 -0400, "Apostle Keith Williams"
Post by Apostle Keith Williams
God is the Christian God, and God does judgments on people
who are against Him, and blesses His faithful children.
By Christian God, I suppose you mean Christ, right? Christ is my God.
There is no other.
There are thousands of god beliefs.

How do you know your god is the real god???

If Christ is the real god why doesn't he smite all the false gods or at
least anounce from
his heaven that he is the real god and all the others are fakes?

The reason is that all gods were creations of man.
Post by Eric Brze
Post by Apostle Keith Williams
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
But we did look up.
Not good enough. By looking up, I mean looking up spiritually.
Yes, the spiritual... A Jew, a Muslim, and a Christian, all looking up
to the spiritual truths that keep them killing each other in God's name.
Truth does not kill life. Truth only saves life. If you see people
killing people in the name of truth, you know their truth is the false
truth.
Post by AcesLucky
If the spiritual "up" is up there, wouldn't they all be seeing or
hearing the same thing from God? But it's quite the opposite, isn't it?
The spiritual "up" is not up there in the sky. It's up in spirit. It's
by the good spirit, we find the truth. If it's the evil spirit, there
can be no truth ever found.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Just the other day we rammed a space probe into a
Post by AcesLucky
comet. The objective is to see what's inside of it.
Religion? No. SCIENCE!
Apples and oranges.
I agree. Fiction based on closed-minded belief, vs. fact based on
objective observation. You are certainly correct.
No, that's not what I meant. It's spiritual vs. physical.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Science says, let's find out the truth about the world around us.
That's physical/natural truth. It's conditional and temporary.
If you found an UN-natural truth, that's unconditional and permanent,
Sorry, unnatural truth is also conditional and temporary. It is not
very different from its natural counterpart except it's unnatural.
Post by AcesLucky
you've just won a million dollars. Seriously! Just go to
http://www.randi.org to collect. The money is already there.
All you have to do is DEMONSTRATE any of what you stated!
Why? what I've stated is not rocket science. There is nothing
difficult to understand.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Religion says, let's believe in ancient folklore so we can live
forever.
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Religion deals with the spiritual truth. It's unconditional and
eternal.
See above challenge. Do something for the world and demonstrate an
eternal, spiritual truth.
Sorry, it's not for demonstration purpose. It's for saving lives and
making peace. Not for show business.
Eric Brze
2005-07-09 08:24:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
Post by Eric Brze
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 03:39:34 -0400, "Apostle Keith Williams"
Post by Apostle Keith Williams
God is the Christian God, and God does judgments on people
who are against Him, and blesses His faithful children.
By Christian God, I suppose you mean Christ, right? Christ is my God.
There is no other.
There are thousands of god beliefs.
Yet, there are only two beliefs. The belief in the true God, and the
belief in the false god.
Post by Bill
How do you know your god is the real god???
That's according to my own spiritual practice.
Post by Bill
If Christ is the real god why doesn't he smite all the false gods or at
least anounce from
his heaven that he is the real god and all the others are fakes?
Because the Truth is self-evident. There is no need to do any of that.
Post by Bill
The reason is that all gods were creations of man.
There is a difference between the various beliefs and God himself. The
beliefs are supposed to point to God. God himself is not a belief.
Bill
2005-07-10 20:14:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Brze
Post by Bill
Post by Eric Brze
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 03:39:34 -0400, "Apostle Keith Williams"
Post by Apostle Keith Williams
God is the Christian God, and God does judgments on people
who are against Him, and blesses His faithful children.
By Christian God, I suppose you mean Christ, right? Christ is my God.
There is no other.
There are thousands of god beliefs.
Yet, there are only two beliefs. The belief in the true God, and the
belief in the false god.
Post by Bill
How do you know your god is the real god???
That's according to my own spiritual practice.
Post by Bill
If Christ is the real god why doesn't he smite all the false gods or at
least anounce from
his heaven that he is the real god and all the others are fakes?
Because the Truth is self-evident. There is no need to do any of that.
Post by Bill
The reason is that all gods were creations of man.
There is a difference between the various beliefs and God himself. The
beliefs are supposed to point to God. God himself is not a belief.
Sure, he is pure fiction created by man!
Pastor Frank
2005-07-06 10:46:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
2. what is the meaning of symbolically eating god?
God is love who gives life. The body of Christ is life. The blood of
Christ is love. It means through Christ we receive the love of God to
have life in God.
Post by AcesLucky
Sincerely,
"Trying not to think too hard as per your instructions."
Thank you Eric.
That was a really beautiful description of cannibalism.
Does it work? Do believers in this ritual really live longer than others?
And would you really seek to eat his body and drink his blood in real
life?
You really don't see something wrong with this picture?
I'm sure we all can see "something wrong" with your head, to even think
and talk that way. See below

Pastor Frank

Jesus in Jn:3:6: That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that
which is born of the Spirit is spirit
AcesLucky
2005-07-07 04:20:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
2. what is the meaning of symbolically eating god?
God is love who gives life. The body of Christ is life. The blood of
Christ is love. It means through Christ we receive the love of God to
have life in God.
Post by AcesLucky
Sincerely,
"Trying not to think too hard as per your instructions."
Thank you Eric.
That was a really beautiful description of cannibalism.
Does it work? Do believers in this ritual really live longer than others?
And would you really seek to eat his body and drink his blood in real
life?
You really don't see something wrong with this picture?
I'm sure we all can see "something wrong" with your head, to even think
and talk that way. See below
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Jn:3:6: That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that
which is born of the Spirit is spirit
Okay, but... what does it have to do with anything we're talking about?

PS: Can you show me something (anything) born of spirit?
Apostle Keith Williams
2005-07-07 09:33:17 UTC
Permalink
I am born of the Spirit of God. That word "born" is not only from the
Greek word genao which means
to produce an offspring, but also describes how God gives living Spirit from
Himself to a person,
making a joined inside tandem of both my spirit and a "Raindrop" of God's
Spirit.
When you get this experience,
you can see that the emperors and philosopher leaders of the tares' Bible
misled us; even so much
that people think born again is a commitment, rather than a momentary Spirit
baptism from God or
His Son invisible, powerful, and supernatural. It feels like a momentary
water submersion but dry
Spirit of God; and God's Holy Spirit stays inside, rather than come and go
like before we were given
God's Holy Spirit baptism. We don't have to continue to be misled,
remaining pseudo Christians,
having never experienced the Holy Spirit baptism, which is the real "born
again" experience.
After you have felt God's Holy Spirit fill your body, ask for the Holy
Spirit baptism like in Acts 1:5.
You don't have to remain a partial Christian. Jeremiah 31:33 says "into
our inward parts".
God's new covenant law is in God's Spirit. The Bible is so misleading, some
think the Holy Spirit is
God's love; when God is the Holy Spirit. God is like a big raincloud; and
the Holy Spirit in me is a
Raindrop of God. Millions have received this second or third Blessing and
are truly born of the
Holy Spirit of God. Beware of the philosophers' deceived people who want
to keep you back.
Go for it. Get that blessing. Go to that other church where they are
getting blessed like in
St Mark 16:17-20, Joel 2:28-30, and Isaiah 44:3. Go get your blessing too.
It is also
the greatest feeling. More than a belief is available. Get it now.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
2. what is the meaning of symbolically eating god?
God is love who gives life. The body of Christ is life. The blood of
Christ is love. It means through Christ we receive the love of God to
have life in God.
Post by AcesLucky
Sincerely,
"Trying not to think too hard as per your instructions."
Thank you Eric.
That was a really beautiful description of cannibalism.
Does it work? Do believers in this ritual really live longer than others?
And would you really seek to eat his body and drink his blood in real
life?
You really don't see something wrong with this picture?
I'm sure we all can see "something wrong" with your head, to even think
and talk that way. See below
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Jn:3:6: That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that
which is born of the Spirit is spirit
Okay, but... what does it have to do with anything we're talking about?
PS: Can you show me something (anything) born of spirit?
AcesLucky
2005-07-07 11:34:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Apostle Keith Williams
I am born of the Spirit of God. That word "born" is not only from the
Greek word genao which means
to produce an offspring, but also describes how God gives living Spirit from
Himself to a person,
making a joined inside tandem of both my spirit and a "Raindrop" of God's
Spirit.
Uh, Pastor Frank said:

"Pastor Frank

Jesus in Jn:3:6: That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that
which is born of the Spirit is spirit"


So which of you is talking nonsense? You both talk from the same book
and yet you contradict each other.

Oh, I get it!

Never mind.
Post by Apostle Keith Williams
When you get this experience,
you can see that the emperors and philosopher leaders of the tares' Bible
misled us; even so much
that people think born again is a commitment, rather than a momentary Spirit
baptism from God or
His Son invisible, powerful, and supernatural. It feels like a momentary
water submersion but dry
Spirit of God; and God's Holy Spirit stays inside, rather than come and go
like before we were given
God's Holy Spirit baptism. We don't have to continue to be misled,
remaining pseudo Christians,
having never experienced the Holy Spirit baptism, which is the real "born
again" experience.
After you have felt God's Holy Spirit fill your body, ask for the Holy
Spirit baptism like in Acts 1:5.
You don't have to remain a partial Christian. Jeremiah 31:33 says "into
our inward parts".
God's new covenant law is in God's Spirit. The Bible is so misleading, some
think the Holy Spirit is
God's love; when God is the Holy Spirit. God is like a big raincloud; and
the Holy Spirit in me is a
Raindrop of God. Millions have received this second or third Blessing and
are truly born of the
Holy Spirit of God. Beware of the philosophers' deceived people who want
to keep you back.
Go for it. Get that blessing. Go to that other church where they are
getting blessed like in
St Mark 16:17-20, Joel 2:28-30, and Isaiah 44:3. Go get your blessing too.
It is also
the greatest feeling. More than a belief is available. Get it now.
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Eric Brze
Post by AcesLucky
2. what is the meaning of symbolically eating god?
God is love who gives life. The body of Christ is life. The blood of
Christ is love. It means through Christ we receive the love of God to
have life in God.
Post by AcesLucky
Sincerely,
"Trying not to think too hard as per your instructions."
Thank you Eric.
That was a really beautiful description of cannibalism.
Does it work? Do believers in this ritual really live longer than
others?
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by AcesLucky
And would you really seek to eat his body and drink his blood in real
life?
You really don't see something wrong with this picture?
I'm sure we all can see "something wrong" with your head, to even
think
Post by AcesLucky
Post by Pastor Frank
and talk that way. See below
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Jn:3:6: That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that
which is born of the Spirit is spirit
Okay, but... what does it have to do with anything we're talking about?
PS: Can you show me something (anything) born of spirit?
Pastor Frank
2005-07-11 19:24:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Apostle Keith Williams
I am born of the Spirit of God. That word "born" is not only from the
Greek word genao which means
to produce an offspring, but also describes how God gives living Spirit from
Himself to a person,
making a joined inside tandem of both my spirit and a "Raindrop" of God's
Spirit.
Jesus in Jn:3:6: That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that
which is born of the Spirit is spirit"
So which of you is talking nonsense? You both talk from the same book and
yet you contradict each other.
Oh, I get it!
I don't think you "got it". God is about ideals, and that which
originates from an ideal is spiritual, whereas whatever originates from
physical reality is 'off the flesh' and at enmity with spirituality. There
is no "contradiction" above.

Pastor Frank

"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:
Jesus in Jn:4:24: "GOD IS A SPIRIT, and they that worship him must
worship him in spirit and in truth."
Jesus in John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me,
ye should have known my Father also, and from henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND
HAVE SEEN HIM."
Philip saith unto him: "Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
Jesus saith unto him: "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAS SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER;
and how sayest thou then: Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am
in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak
not of myself, but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."
Jesus in John 12:44-46`Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes
in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees me sees
Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever
believes in me should not abide in darkness."
Jesus in Lk 17:20-21: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of
God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo
there! For, behold, the kingdom of GOD IS WITHIN YOU."
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Acts:17:28: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain
also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Nog
2005-07-04 02:45:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
What is religion? Historically religious beliefs appear to have begun with
belief in magic, thence religious beliefs and now science.
Religion is a particular system, or a set of systems, in which doctrines,
myths, rituals, sentiments, institutions, and other similar elements are
interconnected into an overall, and frequently, nebulous concept.
It is amazing how humans become enamored and intoxicated with their
particular religions and religious beliefs. Without any objective
reproducible and verifiable evidence they assume their religion is the
true correct religion and that all the others are fakes and heretical.
Most people are constantly indoctrinated in their religion starting in
very early childhood and threatened with severe punishment for question
the existence of their god.
Most rely on ancient, vague and contradictory documents myths and legends
as the foundation of their religious beliefs and practices.
Baha'i Sacred writings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
NO originals exist.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
Here are just the major religions. There are many more minor religions.
Additionally all have different beliefs and factions within their primary
religion.
Christianity
Mormonism
Islam
Hinduism
Judaism
Sikhism
Buddhism
Zoroastrianism
And hundreds of major variations on the beliefs within all these religions.
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes? None of these documents are objective evidence.
They are all documents written, copied, recopied and modified by errant
men over the centuries. There is no way to determine authenticity or
accuracy. The objective evidence is that they are a mixture of history,
myth, folklore and legends.
Of the BILLIONS of people on this earth, none have verifiably heard from
any of these gods. There are a relatively few that claim they have heard
from THEIR god but these are likely just the imaginings of neurotic
believers and religious fakers.
Of the billions who have died there is no verifiable evidence that any of
them have contacted or communicated with their living children, siblings,
friends or relatives.
The objective evidence is that there are no gods that have created man but
that man has created gods.
It's all self image. If you appear religious you think you are accepted.
Pastor Frank
2005-07-04 13:48:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
Religion is a particular system, or a set of systems, in which doctrines,
myths, rituals, sentiments, institutions, and other similar elements are
interconnected into an overall, and frequently, nebulous concept.
Yes. To many the difference between doing good and doing evil is a
"nebulous concept", that's why we have so many crooks about, who say: "I'm
no crook". The difference between lying, truth and honesty are moral
parameters defined, demonstrated and promoted only by religions.
--
Pastor Frank

THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
**Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
**31: And the second is alike, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
**Jesus in Mat 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
commandments."
THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST
Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them...."
Bill
2005-07-06 15:59:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill
Religion is a particular system, or a set of systems, in which
doctrines, myths, rituals, sentiments, institutions, and other similar
elements are interconnected into an overall, and frequently, nebulous
concept.
Yes. To many the difference between doing good and doing evil is a
"nebulous concept", that's why we have so many crooks about, who say: "I'm
no crook". The difference between lying, truth and honesty are moral
parameters defined, demonstrated and promoted only by religions.
--
Pastor Frank
An all to typical example of how religous fanatics take words out of context
and then interpret them
to fit their twisted belief system.
Post by Pastor Frank
THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
**Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
**31: And the second is alike, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
**Jesus in Mat 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
commandments."
THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST
Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them...."
Nog
2005-07-04 11:56:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
What is religion? Historically religious beliefs appear to have begun with
belief in magic, thence religious beliefs and now science.
Religion is a particular system, or a set of systems, in which doctrines,
myths, rituals, sentiments, institutions, and other similar elements are
interconnected into an overall, and frequently, nebulous concept.
It is amazing how humans become enamored and intoxicated with their
particular religions and religious beliefs. Without any objective
reproducible and verifiable evidence they assume their religion is the
true correct religion and that all the others are fakes and heretical.
Most people are constantly indoctrinated in their religion starting in
very early childhood and threatened with severe punishment for question
the existence of their god.
Most rely on ancient, vague and contradictory documents myths and legends
as the foundation of their religious beliefs and practices.
Baha'i Sacred writings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
NO originals exist.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
Here are just the major religions. There are many more minor religions.
Additionally all have different beliefs and factions within their primary
religion.
Christianity
Mormonism
Islam
Hinduism
Judaism
Sikhism
Buddhism
Zoroastrianism
And hundreds of major variations on the beliefs within all these religions.
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes? None of these documents are objective evidence.
They are all documents written, copied, recopied and modified by errant
men over the centuries. There is no way to determine authenticity or
accuracy. The objective evidence is that they are a mixture of history,
myth, folklore and legends.
Of the BILLIONS of people on this earth, none have verifiably heard from
any of these gods. There are a relatively few that claim they have heard
from THEIR god but these are likely just the imaginings of neurotic
believers and religious fakers.
Of the billions who have died there is no verifiable evidence that any of
them have contacted or communicated with their living children, siblings,
friends or relatives.
The objective evidence is that there are no gods that have created man but
that man has created gods.
Abra cadabra alakazam, poof, you are a pile of shit.

It takes blind faith to believe in hearsay and magic.
Pastor Frank
2005-07-04 13:29:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
What is religion? Historically religious beliefs appear to have begun
with belief in magic, thence religious beliefs and now science.
"Now science"? What has science to do with religion? Religions are
Philosophy, value systems, all more or less similar. Most religions share
their beliefs about what is good and what is evil, which actions are
beneficial and which injurious.
Science doesn't deal with good and evil, therefore there is no
connection between religion and science.

Pastor Frank

THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
**Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
**31: And the second is alike, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
**Jesus in Mat 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
commandments."
THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST
Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them...."
Nog
2005-07-04 22:50:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill
What is religion? Historically religious beliefs appear to have begun
with belief in magic, thence religious beliefs and now science.
"Now science"? What has science to do with religion? Religions are
Philosophy, value systems, all more or less similar. Most religions share
their beliefs about what is good and what is evil, which actions are
beneficial and which injurious.
Science doesn't deal with good and evil, therefore there is no
connection between religion and science.
Pastor Frank
THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
**Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
**31: And the second is alike, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
**Jesus in Mat 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
commandments."
THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST
Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them...."
Written by middle eastern brainless psychotics who like to blow themselves
up. Same people 2000 years ago.
Pastor Frank
2005-07-05 11:15:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nog
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill
What is religion? Historically religious beliefs appear to have begun
with belief in magic, thence religious beliefs and now science.
"Now science"? What has science to do with religion? Religions are
Philosophy, value systems, all more or less similar. Most religions share
their beliefs about what is good and what is evil, which actions are
beneficial and which injurious.
Science doesn't deal with good and evil, therefore there is no
connection between religion and science.
THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
**Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
**31: And the second is alike, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
**Jesus in Mat 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
commandments."
THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST
Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them...."
Written by middle eastern brainless psychotics who like to blow themselves
up. Same people 2000 years ago.
That itself is a "brainless" comment, for you don't know what you would
do to an invading enemy, and using which excuse to do it.
Bill
2005-07-06 16:07:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Bill
What is religion? Historically religious beliefs appear to have begun
with belief in magic, thence religious beliefs and now science.
"Now science"? What has science to do with religion? Religions are
Philosophy, value systems, all more or less similar. Most religions share
their beliefs about what is good and what is evil, which actions are
beneficial and which injurious.
You are correct. Religions are opinions unsubstantiated by any facts.
Post by Pastor Frank
Science doesn't deal with good and evil, therefore there is no
connection between religion and science.
Science deals with real life facts, saves lives, improves lifes comforts,
improves law
enforcement and public safety. Science deals with the real world. Religion
deals with myth
folklore and legend.

I'll take science any day.
Post by Pastor Frank
Pastor Frank
THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
**Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
**31: And the second is alike, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
**Jesus in Mat 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
commandments."
THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST
Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them...."
C***@bigsecret.com
2005-07-09 17:13:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
What is religion? Historically religious beliefs appear to have begun with
belief in magic, thence religious beliefs and now science.
Religion is a particular system, or a set of systems, in which doctrines,
myths, rituals, sentiments, institutions, and other similar elements are
interconnected into an overall, and frequently, nebulous concept.
This is not CHRISTIANITY...
Christianity is a political system designed by God Almighty
that men have traded for their flawed political and godless system.
Christianity is not just religion, it is more than religion.
Post by Bill
It is amazing how humans become enamored and intoxicated with their
particular religions and religious beliefs. Without any objective
reproducible and verifiable evidence they assume their religion is the true
correct religion and that all the others are fakes and heretical.
Most people are constantly indoctrinated in their religion starting in very
early childhood and threatened with severe punishment for question the
existence of their god.
Most rely on ancient, vague and contradictory documents myths and legends as
the foundation of their religious beliefs and practices.
Baha'i Sacred writings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
NO originals exist.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
Here are just the major religions. There are many more minor religions.
Additionally all have different beliefs and factions within their primary
religion.
Christianity
Mormonism
Islam
Hinduism
Judaism
Sikhism
Buddhism
Zoroastrianism
And hundreds of major variations on the beliefs within all these religions.
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes? None of these documents are objective evidence.
They are all documents written, copied, recopied and modified by errant men
over the centuries. There is no way to determine authenticity or accuracy.
The objective evidence is that they are a mixture of history, myth, folklore
and legends.
Of the BILLIONS of people on this earth, none have verifiably heard from any
of these gods. There are a relatively few that claim they have heard from
THEIR god but these are likely just the imaginings of neurotic believers and
religious fakers.
Of the billions who have died there is no verifiable evidence that any of
them have contacted or communicated with their living children, siblings,
friends or relatives.
The objective evidence is that there are no gods that have created man but
that man has created gods.
Bill
2005-07-10 00:02:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by C***@bigsecret.com
Post by Bill
What is religion? Historically religious beliefs appear to have begun with
belief in magic, thence religious beliefs and now science.
Religion is a particular system, or a set of systems, in which doctrines,
myths, rituals, sentiments, institutions, and other similar elements are
interconnected into an overall, and frequently, nebulous concept.
This is not CHRISTIANITY...
Christianity is a political system designed by God Almighty
that men have traded for their flawed political and godless system.
Christianity is not just religion, it is more than religion.
There is NO - NADA objective varifiable evidence that JESUS CHRISt ever
actually existed much less than he was some god.

You have your head stuck in myths and legends instead of varifiable facts.
Post by C***@bigsecret.com
Post by Bill
It is amazing how humans become enamored and intoxicated with their
particular religions and religious beliefs. Without any objective
reproducible and verifiable evidence they assume their religion is the true
correct religion and that all the others are fakes and heretical.
Most people are constantly indoctrinated in their religion starting in very
early childhood and threatened with severe punishment for question the
existence of their god.
Most rely on ancient, vague and contradictory documents myths and legends as
the foundation of their religious beliefs and practices.
Baha'i Sacred writings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
NO originals exist.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
Here are just the major religions. There are many more minor religions.
Additionally all have different beliefs and factions within their primary
religion.
Christianity
Mormonism
Islam
Hinduism
Judaism
Sikhism
Buddhism
Zoroastrianism
And hundreds of major variations on the beliefs within all these religions.
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes? None of these documents are objective evidence.
They are all documents written, copied, recopied and modified by errant men
over the centuries. There is no way to determine authenticity or accuracy.
The objective evidence is that they are a mixture of history, myth, folklore
and legends.
Of the BILLIONS of people on this earth, none have verifiably heard from any
of these gods. There are a relatively few that claim they have heard from
THEIR god but these are likely just the imaginings of neurotic believers and
religious fakers.
Of the billions who have died there is no verifiable evidence that any of
them have contacted or communicated with their living children, siblings,
friends or relatives.
The objective evidence is that there are no gods that have created man but
that man has created gods.
C***@bigsecret.com
2005-07-12 22:59:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
Post by C***@bigsecret.com
Post by Bill
What is religion? Historically religious beliefs appear to have begun with
belief in magic, thence religious beliefs and now science.
Religion is a particular system, or a set of systems, in which doctrines,
myths, rituals, sentiments, institutions, and other similar elements are
interconnected into an overall, and frequently, nebulous concept.
This is not CHRISTIANITY...
Christianity is a political system designed by God Almighty
that men have traded for their flawed political and godless system.
Christianity is not just religion, it is more than religion.
There is NO - NADA objective varifiable evidence that JESUS CHRISt ever
actually existed much less than he was some god.
You have your head stuck in myths and legends instead of varifiable facts.
It could be that you don't know what verifiable facts mean.
It could also means THAT it is beyond what you can comprehend.
You labore from the wong assumption that you know it all
and you are the standard for verifiable facts or truth.
YOU ARE THE JERK.
Post by Bill
Post by C***@bigsecret.com
Post by Bill
It is amazing how humans become enamored and intoxicated with their
particular religions and religious beliefs. Without any objective
reproducible and verifiable evidence they assume their religion is the true
correct religion and that all the others are fakes and heretical.
Most people are constantly indoctrinated in their religion starting in very
early childhood and threatened with severe punishment for question the
existence of their god.
Most rely on ancient, vague and contradictory documents myths and legends as
the foundation of their religious beliefs and practices.
Baha'i Sacred writings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
NO originals exist.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
Here are just the major religions. There are many more minor religions.
Additionally all have different beliefs and factions within their primary
religion.
Christianity
Mormonism
Islam
Hinduism
Judaism
Sikhism
Buddhism
Zoroastrianism
And hundreds of major variations on the beliefs within all these religions.
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes? None of these documents are objective evidence.
They are all documents written, copied, recopied and modified by errant men
over the centuries. There is no way to determine authenticity or accuracy.
The objective evidence is that they are a mixture of history, myth, folklore
and legends.
Of the BILLIONS of people on this earth, none have verifiably heard from any
of these gods. There are a relatively few that claim they have heard from
THEIR god but these are likely just the imaginings of neurotic believers and
religious fakers.
Of the billions who have died there is no verifiable evidence that any of
them have contacted or communicated with their living children, siblings,
friends or relatives.
The objective evidence is that there are no gods that have created man but
that man has created gods.
Bill
2005-07-14 21:19:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by C***@bigsecret.com
Post by Bill
Post by C***@bigsecret.com
Post by Bill
What is religion? Historically religious beliefs appear to have begun with
belief in magic, thence religious beliefs and now science.
Religion is a particular system, or a set of systems, in which doctrines,
myths, rituals, sentiments, institutions, and other similar elements are
interconnected into an overall, and frequently, nebulous concept.
This is not CHRISTIANITY...
Christianity is a political system designed by God Almighty
that men have traded for their flawed political and godless system.
Christianity is not just religion, it is more than religion.
There is NO - NADA objective varifiable evidence that JESUS CHRISt ever
actually existed much less than he was some god.
You have your head stuck in myths and legends instead of varifiable facts.
It could be that you don't know what verifiable facts mean.
It could also means THAT it is beyond what you can comprehend.
You labore from the wong assumption that you know it all
and you are the standard for verifiable facts or truth.
YOU ARE THE JERK.
Have you ever tried to offer some facts, evidence or logical arguement
instead of engaging in
dumb rhetoric and name calling? You are showing off your ignorence.
Post by C***@bigsecret.com
Post by Bill
Post by C***@bigsecret.com
Post by Bill
It is amazing how humans become enamored and intoxicated with their
particular religions and religious beliefs. Without any objective
reproducible and verifiable evidence they assume their religion is the true
correct religion and that all the others are fakes and heretical.
Most people are constantly indoctrinated in their religion starting in very
early childhood and threatened with severe punishment for question the
existence of their god.
Most rely on ancient, vague and contradictory documents myths and
legends
as
the foundation of their religious beliefs and practices.
Baha'i Sacred writings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
NO originals exist.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
Here are just the major religions. There are many more minor religions.
Additionally all have different beliefs and factions within their primary
religion.
Christianity
Mormonism
Islam
Hinduism
Judaism
Sikhism
Buddhism
Zoroastrianism
And hundreds of major variations on the beliefs within all these religions.
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes? None of these documents are objective evidence.
They are all documents written, copied, recopied and modified by
errant
men
over the centuries. There is no way to determine authenticity or accuracy.
The objective evidence is that they are a mixture of history, myth, folklore
and legends.
Of the BILLIONS of people on this earth, none have verifiably heard
from
any
of these gods. There are a relatively few that claim they have heard from
THEIR god but these are likely just the imaginings of neurotic
believers
and
religious fakers.
Of the billions who have died there is no verifiable evidence that any of
them have contacted or communicated with their living children, siblings,
friends or relatives.
The objective evidence is that there are no gods that have created man but
that man has created gods.
fred
2005-07-12 23:51:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
Post by C***@bigsecret.com
Post by Bill
What is religion? Historically religious beliefs appear to have begun with
belief in magic, thence religious beliefs and now science.
Religion is a particular system, or a set of systems, in which doctrines,
myths, rituals, sentiments, institutions, and other similar elements are
interconnected into an overall, and frequently, nebulous concept.
This is not CHRISTIANITY...
Christianity is a political system designed by God Almighty
that men have traded for their flawed political and godless system.
Christianity is not just religion, it is more than religion.
There is NO - NADA objective varifiable evidence that JESUS CHRISt ever
actually existed much less than he was some god.
Although there is very little evidence about Jesus Christ, christians
have been upfront for the last 2000+ years that their belief in Jesus
Christ is based on faith anyway.

So what's your point?
Post by Bill
You have your head stuck in myths and legends instead of varifiable facts.
You're problem is that Jesus is neither conclusively verifiable or
refutable anyway. Again, christians base their belief in Jesus on
faith.
Post by Bill
Post by C***@bigsecret.com
Post by Bill
It is amazing how humans become enamored and intoxicated with their
particular religions and religious beliefs. Without any objective
reproducible and verifiable evidence they assume their religion is the true
correct religion and that all the others are fakes and heretical.
Yes. Based on what this Scriptures say, undisciplined beliefs have
always been a major problem. But that's why God gave us the
Scriptures, so that we could discipline our wild imaginations.
Post by Bill
Post by C***@bigsecret.com
Post by Bill
Most people are constantly indoctrinated in their religion starting in very
early childhood and threatened with severe punishment for question the
existence of their god.
I don't agree with the part where you say that children are threatened
with severe punishment for questioning the existance of their god. I
think you're blowing hot air. But it's your credibility.
Post by Bill
Post by C***@bigsecret.com
Post by Bill
Most rely on ancient, vague and contradictory documents myths and legends as
the foundation of their religious beliefs and practices.
This is a very suspicious generalization. I suspect that you have been
brainwashed as much as you claim that children have been brainwashed
about questioning God. In fact, you are probably projecting yourself
into these imaginary children of yours.

Also, do you have web pages which show the exhaustive work of your
studies concerning the problems with the ancient documents that you
alluded to above? If not then, hey, why not?
Post by Bill
Post by C***@bigsecret.com
Post by Bill
Baha'i Sacred writings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
NO originals exist.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
Here are just the major religions. There are many more minor religions.
Additionally all have different beliefs and factions within their primary
religion.
Christianity
Mormonism
Islam
Hinduism
Judaism
Sikhism
Buddhism
Zoroastrianism
And hundreds of major variations on the beliefs within all these religions.
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes? None of these documents are objective evidence.
They are all documents written, copied, recopied and modified by errant men
over the centuries. There is no way to determine authenticity or accuracy.
The objective evidence is that they are a mixture of history, myth, folklore
and legends.
What do you mean there is no way to determine authenticity or accuracy?
I think that you've brainwashed yourself to believe that their isn't.
When a "born again" Christian invites Jesus into their spiritual heart
(Revelation 3:20) then Jesus in Spirit renews that person on the
inside. Galatians 5:19-24 shows a list of before/after character
traits that should manifest in a true believer.
Post by Bill
Post by C***@bigsecret.com
Post by Bill
Of the BILLIONS of people on this earth, none have verifiably heard from any
of these gods. There are a relatively few that claim they have heard from
THEIR god but these are likely just the imaginings of neurotic believers and
religious fakers.
God has communicated with you through his Scriptures. And you have
answered God back by condemning both him and his Scriptures. You
continue to resist the Spirit's convictions on your spiritual heart.
Otherwise you would know that God communicates to people by means of
inspirations and convictions that he impresses on your spritual heart
(Matthew 16:13-17, Luke 17:20-21).
Post by Bill
Post by C***@bigsecret.com
Post by Bill
Of the billions who have died there is no verifiable evidence that any of
them have contacted or communicated with their living children, siblings,
friends or relatives.
Ecclesiastes 9:6 indicates that after you die then you have no more
business here on earth.
Post by Bill
Post by C***@bigsecret.com
Post by Bill
The objective evidence is that there are no gods that have created man but
that man has created gods.
You are denying the ordered universe as evidence of God. Romans 1:20
says that you are without excuse for doing so.

Finally, you implied that you had a knowledge of problems with ancient
documents but you don't seem to know the Scriptures. You're evidently
just a slave to your undisciplined imagination and the garbage that
christian-hating people have fed you.

John 3:16
Revelation 3:20
Apostle Keith Williams
2005-07-10 00:20:15 UTC
Permalink
There is how to know the true living God.
Believe there is God, and decide to be faithful to God.
Do to other people as you would people do to you.
Be merciful to the poor, and give to them.
Pray saying: Lord Jesus, save me.
Follow the Spirit of God, and refuse evil mischief behavior.
God is Christian, and the Lord Jesus Christ is His only begotten Son.
God has made Jesus Christ Lord over all of us.
Post by C***@bigsecret.com
Post by Bill
What is religion? Historically religious beliefs appear to have begun with
belief in magic, thence religious beliefs and now science.
Religion is a particular system, or a set of systems, in which doctrines,
myths, rituals, sentiments, institutions, and other similar elements are
interconnected into an overall, and frequently, nebulous concept.
This is not CHRISTIANITY...
Christianity is a political system designed by God Almighty
that men have traded for their flawed political and godless system.
Christianity is not just religion, it is more than religion.
Post by Bill
It is amazing how humans become enamored and intoxicated with their
particular religions and religious beliefs. Without any objective
reproducible and verifiable evidence they assume their religion is the true
correct religion and that all the others are fakes and heretical.
Most people are constantly indoctrinated in their religion starting in very
early childhood and threatened with severe punishment for question the
existence of their god.
Most rely on ancient, vague and contradictory documents myths and legends as
the foundation of their religious beliefs and practices.
Baha'i Sacred writings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
NO originals exist.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
Here are just the major religions. There are many more minor religions.
Additionally all have different beliefs and factions within their primary
religion.
Christianity
Mormonism
Islam
Hinduism
Judaism
Sikhism
Buddhism
Zoroastrianism
And hundreds of major variations on the beliefs within all these religions.
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes? None of these documents are objective evidence.
They are all documents written, copied, recopied and modified by errant men
over the centuries. There is no way to determine authenticity or accuracy.
The objective evidence is that they are a mixture of history, myth, folklore
and legends.
Of the BILLIONS of people on this earth, none have verifiably heard from any
of these gods. There are a relatively few that claim they have heard from
THEIR god but these are likely just the imaginings of neurotic believers and
religious fakers.
Of the billions who have died there is no verifiable evidence that any of
them have contacted or communicated with their living children, siblings,
friends or relatives.
The objective evidence is that there are no gods that have created man but
that man has created gods.
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