OBVIOUS BASIC EVIDENCE

[Bill M]

The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are nothing
more than the creations of man.

There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.

If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is the
'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the false
gods so his creations would not be deceived.

[Christopher A. Lee]

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are nothing
more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is the
'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the false
gods so his creations would not be deceived.

Don't tell us. Tell the idiots like "Jack" who rub their beliefs in
our faces and when told to put up or shut up, do neither and keep
talking complete and utter, question-begging (together with other
fallacies) bollocks.

[Greywolf]

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are nothing
more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is the
'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the false
gods so his creations would not be deceived.

Well one would *think* so, wouldn't one? At *best* all the theists can do is
point to 'irreducible complexity', their 'faith', or the 'offensive' idea
that it is incumbent upon we atheists to prove that 'God' *doesn't* exist.
See how pathetic their position is? That's 'Retardville' stuff. And which
makes me seriously wonder if there isn't something diabolically wrong with
the brains of these people. How *obvious* does it have to get before these
people comprehend that they are simply 'wrong'?

In another post, I posed the silly hypothesis that a certain monkey at the
local zoo was 'God'. Well, we all *know* that the monkey is not 'God' --
except for those who would want to believe that anyway -- no matter *how*
absurd it is. Why is it that the theists can't use the same measure of
certitude that the monkey isn't 'God' when it comes to the 'God' *they*
believe exists? There is no more 'proof' for the monkey being 'God' than
*whatever* the theists propose is 'God'. Think about it. They've got NO more
proof that my little hypothetical monkey friend is 'God' than *anything*
they choose to offer up as 'theirs'. Did I say 'Retardville'?

(Dang! I *know* I offend a lot of people with my often scathing remarks and
demeaning 'style', but, damn-it, I am presently being treated in a brutal
manner by certain members of my community who profess to be 'Christians'.
All their despicable and disgraceful behavior is accomplishing is fostering
an intense hatred of Christians that NO amount of psychological 'therapy'
will *ever* distinguish. And, in time, I will say, 'YOU brought this on you
dirt-bags, You and YOU alone! Phooey on every single one of the vile
bastards! (Sick? Yeah, I know. But you have *no* idea what it is like for me
out here. The MF's!)

And all this because I dared challenge their stupid, misguided beliefs.

Greywolf

[Greywolf]

Post by Greywolf

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are nothing
more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is the
'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the
false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

Well one would *think* so, wouldn't one? At *best* all the theists can do
is point to 'irreducible complexity', their 'faith', or the 'offensive'
idea that it is incumbent upon we atheists to prove that 'God' *doesn't*
exist. See how pathetic their position is? That's 'Retardville' stuff. And
which makes me seriously wonder if there isn't something diabolically
wrong with the brains of these people. How *obvious* does it have to get
before these people comprehend that they are simply 'wrong'?
In another post, I posed the silly hypothesis that a certain monkey at the
local zoo was 'God'. Well, we all *know* that the monkey is not 'God' --
except for those who would want to believe that anyway -- no matter *how*
absurd it is. Why is it that the theists can't use the same measure of
certitude that the monkey isn't 'God' when it comes to the 'God' *they*
believe exists? There is no more 'proof' for the monkey being 'God' than
*whatever* the theists propose is 'God'. Think about it. They've got NO
more proof that my little hypothetical monkey friend is 'God' than
*anything* they choose to offer up as 'theirs'. Did I say 'Retardville'?
(Dang! I *know* I offend a lot of people with my often scathing remarks
and demeaning 'style', but, damn-it, I am presently being treated in a
brutal manner by certain members of my community who profess to be
'Christians'. All their despicable and disgraceful behavior is
accomplishing is fostering an intense hatred of Christians that NO amount
of psychological 'therapy' will *ever* distinguish. And, in time, I will
say, 'YOU brought this on you dirt-bags, You and YOU alone! Phooey on
every single one of the vile bastards! (Sick? Yeah, I know. But you have
*no* idea what it is like for me out here. The MF's!)
And all this because I dared challenge their stupid, misguided beliefs.
Greywolf

I should have used the word 'extinguish' rather than 'distinguish'. I also
failed to add that the depraved and brutal treatment I am subjected to out
here is not based on my atheistic 'stance' alone. I dared stand up to a Tom
Delay-type, mini-'Don'-type character out here who helped my insurance
company make sure they didn't have to pay me a considerable amount of money
that was legally due me. (The MF'r!) Me being an atheist only has made
things easier for his lap-dog puppets *and* his anti-atheist cronies to
treat me like so much dog-meat. (It makes them feel 'spiritually' correct.)
If anyone should wonder *why* they should despise Christian fundamentalists,
seeing how I am being treated by these low-life out here would provide a
substantially good answer.

Greywolf

[Michael Gray]

Post by Greywolf

Post by Greywolf

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are nothing
more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is the
'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the
false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

Well one would *think* so, wouldn't one? At *best* all the theists can do
is point to 'irreducible complexity', their 'faith', or the 'offensive'
idea that it is incumbent upon we atheists to prove that 'God' *doesn't*
exist. See how pathetic their position is? That's 'Retardville' stuff. And
which makes me seriously wonder if there isn't something diabolically
wrong with the brains of these people. How *obvious* does it have to get
before these people comprehend that they are simply 'wrong'?
In another post, I posed the silly hypothesis that a certain monkey at the
local zoo was 'God'. Well, we all *know* that the monkey is not 'God' --
except for those who would want to believe that anyway -- no matter *how*
absurd it is. Why is it that the theists can't use the same measure of
certitude that the monkey isn't 'God' when it comes to the 'God' *they*
believe exists? There is no more 'proof' for the monkey being 'God' than
*whatever* the theists propose is 'God'. Think about it. They've got NO
more proof that my little hypothetical monkey friend is 'God' than
*anything* they choose to offer up as 'theirs'. Did I say 'Retardville'?
(Dang! I *know* I offend a lot of people with my often scathing remarks
and demeaning 'style', but, damn-it, I am presently being treated in a
brutal manner by certain members of my community who profess to be
'Christians'. All their despicable and disgraceful behavior is
accomplishing is fostering an intense hatred of Christians that NO amount
of psychological 'therapy' will *ever* distinguish. And, in time, I will
say, 'YOU brought this on you dirt-bags, You and YOU alone! Phooey on
every single one of the vile bastards! (Sick? Yeah, I know. But you have
*no* idea what it is like for me out here. The MF's!)
And all this because I dared challenge their stupid, misguided beliefs.
Greywolf

I should have used the word 'extinguish' rather than 'distinguish'. I also
failed to add that the depraved and brutal treatment I am subjected to out
here is not based on my atheistic 'stance' alone. I dared stand up to a Tom
Delay-type, mini-'Don'-type character out here who helped my insurance
company make sure they didn't have to pay me a considerable amount of money
that was legally due me. (The MF'r!) Me being an atheist only has made
things easier for his lap-dog puppets *and* his anti-atheist cronies to
treat me like so much dog-meat. (It makes them feel 'spiritually' correct.)
If anyone should wonder *why* they should despise Christian fundamentalists,
seeing how I am being treated by these low-life out here would provide a
substantially good answer.

As if their enabling of other crimes were not enough!

(I have to snip alt.christian.religion from the headers, as my server
does not carry it.)

--

[Greywolf]

Post by Greywolf

Post by Greywolf

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are
nothing more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is
the 'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the
false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

Well one would *think* so, wouldn't one? At *best* all the theists can do
is point to 'irreducible complexity', their 'faith', or the 'offensive'
idea that it is incumbent upon we atheists to prove that 'God' *doesn't*
exist. See how pathetic their position is? That's 'Retardville' stuff.
And which makes me seriously wonder if there isn't something diabolically
wrong with the brains of these people. How *obvious* does it have to get
before these people comprehend that they are simply 'wrong'?
In another post, I posed the silly hypothesis that a certain monkey at
the local zoo was 'God'. Well, we all *know* that the monkey is not
'God' -- except for those who would want to believe that anyway -- no
matter *how* absurd it is. Why is it that the theists can't use the same
measure of certitude that the monkey isn't 'God' when it comes to the
'God' *they* believe exists? There is no more 'proof' for the monkey
being 'God' than *whatever* the theists propose is 'God'. Think about it.
They've got NO more proof that my little hypothetical monkey friend is
'God' than *anything* they choose to offer up as 'theirs'. Did I say
'Retardville'?
(Dang! I *know* I offend a lot of people with my often scathing remarks
and demeaning 'style', but, damn-it, I am presently being treated in a
brutal manner by certain members of my community who profess to be
'Christians'. All their despicable and disgraceful behavior is
accomplishing is fostering an intense hatred of Christians that NO amount
of psychological 'therapy' will *ever* distinguish. And, in time, I will
say, 'YOU brought this on you dirt-bags, You and YOU alone! Phooey on
every single one of the vile bastards! (Sick? Yeah, I know. But you have
*no* idea what it is like for me out here. The MF's!)
And all this because I dared challenge their stupid, misguided beliefs.
Greywolf

I should have used the word 'extinguish' rather than 'distinguish'. I also
failed to add that the depraved and brutal treatment I am subjected to out
here is not based on my atheistic 'stance' alone. I dared stand up to a
Tom Delay-type, mini-'Don'-type character out here who helped my insurance
company make sure they didn't have to pay me a considerable amount of
money that was legally due me. (The MF'r!) Me being an atheist only has
made things easier for his lap-dog puppets *and* his anti-atheist cronies
to treat me like so much dog-meat. (It makes them feel 'spiritually'
correct.) If anyone should wonder *why* they should despise Christian
fundamentalists, seeing how I am being treated by these low-life out here
would provide a substantially good answer.
Greywolf

Well I've *really* made a bang-up mess of this post, haven't I?

It should read: 'There is no more 'proof' for the monkey *not* being 'God'
than *whatever* the theists propose *is* 'God'. Think about it. They've got
NO more proof that my little hypothetical monkey friend *isn't* 'God' than
*anything* they choose to offer up as proof 'theirs', *is*. Did I say
'Retardville'?
Sorry.

Greywolf

[AcesLucky]

Post by Greywolf

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are nothing
more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is the
'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the false
gods so his creations would not be deceived.

Well one would *think* so, wouldn't one? At *best* all the theists can do is
point to 'irreducible complexity', their 'faith', or the 'offensive' idea
that it is incumbent upon we atheists to prove that 'God' *doesn't* exist.
See how pathetic their position is? That's 'Retardville' stuff. And which
makes me seriously wonder if there isn't something diabolically wrong with
the brains of these people. How *obvious* does it have to get before these
people comprehend that they are simply 'wrong'?
In another post, I posed the silly hypothesis that a certain monkey at the
local zoo was 'God'. Well, we all *know* that the monkey is not 'God' --
except for those who would want to believe that anyway -- no matter *how*
absurd it is. Why is it that the theists can't use the same measure of
certitude that the monkey isn't 'God' when it comes to the 'God' *they*
believe exists? There is no more 'proof' for the monkey being 'God' than
*whatever* the theists propose is 'God'. Think about it. They've got NO more
proof that my little hypothetical monkey friend is 'God' than *anything*
they choose to offer up as 'theirs'. Did I say 'Retardville'?
(Dang! I *know* I offend a lot of people with my often scathing remarks and
demeaning 'style', but, damn-it, I am presently being treated in a brutal
manner by certain members of my community who profess to be 'Christians'.
All their despicable and disgraceful behavior is accomplishing is fostering
an intense hatred of Christians that NO amount of psychological 'therapy'
will *ever* distinguish. And, in time, I will say, 'YOU brought this on you
dirt-bags, You and YOU alone! Phooey on every single one of the vile
bastards! (Sick? Yeah, I know. But you have *no* idea what it is like for me
out here. The MF's!)
And all this because I dared challenge their stupid, misguided beliefs.
Greywolf

Try to understand them this way:

Our earlier survival mechanisms were (and for the most part still are)
based on emotion, not logic. Emotional decisions, like fear, were very
successful in keeping our species alive. They are from countless
centuries of both evolutionary and naturally selective processes,
probably inherent in very many species.

A rabbit hears a rustle in the brush...fleeing instinctively makes it
capable of reproduction in the future. Pure survival. If it waited for
more evidence...it might be the wind blowing through a few leaves...or
it could be a fox...would always make it too late if wrong even once!

The emotion to fear and flee and protect itself (evidence or no
evidence) insures survival and procreation.

*Religion* speaks to that emotional survival mechanism, not to our logic
or reason. Logic and reason are luxuries derived from having survived
(thanks to those primitive emotions). We are no longer faced with that
kind of danger, and thinking with our logic and reason, instead of our
feelings, is an evolutionary survival mechanism too, just far more
useful for our current circumstances and development.

So it's not that believers in myth are idiots, but rather they are less
developed in their ability to separate emotional conclusions from
reason. If all you have to do is "believe something" to become immortal,
that speaks directly to the emotional desire to survive; but it is
obviously illogical!

Emotion wins the day, though completely irrational, because it is
virtually hard-wired into our neurology. In a sense, logic is still too
slow. Logic and reason are /developed/. Fear and emotion comes with the
package!

You are simply slightly more developed.

AcesLucky

[Greywolf]

Post by AcesLucky

Post by Greywolf

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are
nothing more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is
the 'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the
false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

Well one would *think* so, wouldn't one? At *best* all the theists can do
is point to 'irreducible complexity', their 'faith', or the 'offensive'
idea that it is incumbent upon we atheists to prove that 'God' *doesn't*
exist. See how pathetic their position is? That's 'Retardville' stuff.
And which makes me seriously wonder if there isn't something diabolically
wrong with the brains of these people. How *obvious* does it have to get
before these people comprehend that they are simply 'wrong'?
In another post, I posed the silly hypothesis that a certain monkey at
the local zoo was 'God'. Well, we all *know* that the monkey is not
'God' -- except for those who would want to believe that anyway -- no
matter *how* absurd it is. Why is it that the theists can't use the same
measure of certitude that the monkey isn't 'God' when it comes to the
'God' *they* believe exists? There is no more 'proof' for the monkey
being 'God' than *whatever* the theists propose is 'God'. Think about it.
They've got NO more proof that my little hypothetical monkey friend is
'God' than *anything* they choose to offer up as 'theirs'. Did I say
'Retardville'?
(Dang! I *know* I offend a lot of people with my often scathing remarks
and demeaning 'style', but, damn-it, I am presently being treated in a
brutal manner by certain members of my community who profess to be
'Christians'. All their despicable and disgraceful behavior is
accomplishing is fostering an intense hatred of Christians that NO amount
of psychological 'therapy' will *ever* distinguish. And, in time, I will
say, 'YOU brought this on you dirt-bags, You and YOU alone! Phooey on
every single one of the vile bastards! (Sick? Yeah, I know. But you have
*no* idea what it is like for me out here. The MF's!)
And all this because I dared challenge their stupid, misguided beliefs.
Greywolf

Our earlier survival mechanisms were (and for the most part still are)
based on emotion, not logic. Emotional decisions, like fear, were very
successful in keeping our species alive. They are from countless centuries
of both evolutionary and naturally selective processes, probably inherent
in very many species.
A rabbit hears a rustle in the brush...fleeing instinctively makes it
capable of reproduction in the future. Pure survival. If it waited for
more evidence...it might be the wind blowing through a few leaves...or it
could be a fox...would always make it too late if wrong even once!
The emotion to fear and flee and protect itself (evidence or no evidence)
insures survival and procreation.
*Religion* speaks to that emotional survival mechanism, not to our logic
or reason. Logic and reason are luxuries derived from having survived
(thanks to those primitive emotions). We are no longer faced with that
kind of danger, and thinking with our logic and reason, instead of our
feelings, is an evolutionary survival mechanism too, just far more useful
for our current circumstances and development.
So it's not that believers in myth are idiots, but rather they are less
developed in their ability to separate emotional conclusions from reason.
If all you have to do is "believe something" to become immortal, that
speaks directly to the emotional desire to survive; but it is obviously
illogical!
Emotion wins the day, though completely irrational, because it is
virtually hard-wired into our neurology. In a sense, logic is still too
slow. Logic and reason are /developed/. Fear and emotion comes with the
package!
You are simply slightly more developed.
AcesLucky

Everything you said makes perfect sense. To buttress that notion a bit, I've
noticed a curious phenomenon when speaking to hardcore Christians. (And this
phenomenon *really* was noticeable when I was confined to an alcoholic
treatment center for a month -- and where I was subjected to an *avalanche*
of religious crap.) The phenomenon is this: Knowing that I am a good
Bible-versed atheist, I start to pin down a 'believer' with some sort of
contrary 'evidence' to either 'the bible contains no mistakes argument' or
some sort of contrary evidence to the statement of 'fact' that 'God' exists.
*Before* I would utter a *word* of my 'contrary evidence', I would see the
'believer' tighten up and start to grimace as if I was going to strike them
with my fist or something. I noticed this reaction any number of times.
Those people were fearful that I was going to 'burst their bubble' in some
way! And on a number of occasions, the person would become visibly *angry*
with me. So I think there is a *great* deal to what you say.

The irony of all this is that these Looney-Tunes are trying to impose their
nonsense on *us*! We're not advocating or 'pushing' atheism on anyone. We're
playing 'defense', not 'offense'. The goofs!

Greywolf

[AcesLucky]

Post by Greywolf

Post by AcesLucky

Post by Greywolf

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are
nothing more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is
the 'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the
false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

Well one would *think* so, wouldn't one? At *best* all the theists can do
is point to 'irreducible complexity', their 'faith', or the 'offensive'
idea that it is incumbent upon we atheists to prove that 'God' *doesn't*
exist. See how pathetic their position is? That's 'Retardville' stuff.
And which makes me seriously wonder if there isn't something diabolically
wrong with the brains of these people. How *obvious* does it have to get
before these people comprehend that they are simply 'wrong'?
In another post, I posed the silly hypothesis that a certain monkey at
the local zoo was 'God'. Well, we all *know* that the monkey is not
'God' -- except for those who would want to believe that anyway -- no
matter *how* absurd it is. Why is it that the theists can't use the same
measure of certitude that the monkey isn't 'God' when it comes to the
'God' *they* believe exists? There is no more 'proof' for the monkey
being 'God' than *whatever* the theists propose is 'God'. Think about it.
They've got NO more proof that my little hypothetical monkey friend is
'God' than *anything* they choose to offer up as 'theirs'. Did I say
'Retardville'?
(Dang! I *know* I offend a lot of people with my often scathing remarks
and demeaning 'style', but, damn-it, I am presently being treated in a
brutal manner by certain members of my community who profess to be
'Christians'. All their despicable and disgraceful behavior is
accomplishing is fostering an intense hatred of Christians that NO amount
of psychological 'therapy' will *ever* distinguish. And, in time, I will
say, 'YOU brought this on you dirt-bags, You and YOU alone! Phooey on
every single one of the vile bastards! (Sick? Yeah, I know. But you have
*no* idea what it is like for me out here. The MF's!)
And all this because I dared challenge their stupid, misguided beliefs.
Greywolf

Our earlier survival mechanisms were (and for the most part still are)
based on emotion, not logic. Emotional decisions, like fear, were very
successful in keeping our species alive. They are from countless centuries
of both evolutionary and naturally selective processes, probably inherent
in very many species.
A rabbit hears a rustle in the brush...fleeing instinctively makes it
capable of reproduction in the future. Pure survival. If it waited for
more evidence...it might be the wind blowing through a few leaves...or it
could be a fox...would always make it too late if wrong even once!
The emotion to fear and flee and protect itself (evidence or no evidence)
insures survival and procreation.
*Religion* speaks to that emotional survival mechanism, not to our logic
or reason. Logic and reason are luxuries derived from having survived
(thanks to those primitive emotions). We are no longer faced with that
kind of danger, and thinking with our logic and reason, instead of our
feelings, is an evolutionary survival mechanism too, just far more useful
for our current circumstances and development.
So it's not that believers in myth are idiots, but rather they are less
developed in their ability to separate emotional conclusions from reason.
If all you have to do is "believe something" to become immortal, that
speaks directly to the emotional desire to survive; but it is obviously
illogical!
Emotion wins the day, though completely irrational, because it is
virtually hard-wired into our neurology. In a sense, logic is still too
slow. Logic and reason are /developed/. Fear and emotion comes with the
package!
You are simply slightly more developed.
AcesLucky

Everything you said makes perfect sense. To buttress that notion a bit, I've
noticed a curious phenomenon when speaking to hardcore Christians. (And this
phenomenon *really* was noticeable when I was confined to an alcoholic
treatment center for a month -- and where I was subjected to an *avalanche*
of religious crap.) The phenomenon is this: Knowing that I am a good
Bible-versed atheist, I start to pin down a 'believer' with some sort of
contrary 'evidence' to either 'the bible contains no mistakes argument' or
some sort of contrary evidence to the statement of 'fact' that 'God' exists.
*Before* I would utter a *word* of my 'contrary evidence', I would see the
'believer' tighten up and start to grimace as if I was going to strike them
with my fist or something. I noticed this reaction any number of times.
Those people were fearful that I was going to 'burst their bubble' in some
way! And on a number of occasions, the person would become visibly *angry*
with me. So I think there is a *great* deal to what you say.
The irony of all this is that these Looney-Tunes are trying to impose their
nonsense on *us*! We're not advocating or 'pushing' atheism on anyone. We're
playing 'defense', not 'offense'. The goofs!
Greywolf

Yes; though that reaction happens often enough on 'both' sides, you are
actually doing the equivalent of attempting to snatch away a child's
security blanket (except this one's for adults). They instinctively
tighten-up their grip *before* the yank, to withstand your attempts.

With atheists, the grimace comes from repeated attempts to explain to
the child that there is no monster in the closet, when the house is
prone to noises of cracking and settling. No amount of "light" turned on
is going to allay those fears when the light goes out.

Some children eventually face those fears and grow up. Some never do.

[Michael Gray]

Post by AcesLucky

Post by Greywolf

Post by AcesLucky

Post by Greywolf

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are
nothing more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is
the 'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the
false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

Well one would *think* so, wouldn't one? At *best* all the theists can do
is point to 'irreducible complexity', their 'faith', or the 'offensive'
idea that it is incumbent upon we atheists to prove that 'God' *doesn't*
exist. See how pathetic their position is? That's 'Retardville' stuff.
And which makes me seriously wonder if there isn't something diabolically
wrong with the brains of these people. How *obvious* does it have to get
before these people comprehend that they are simply 'wrong'?
In another post, I posed the silly hypothesis that a certain monkey at
the local zoo was 'God'. Well, we all *know* that the monkey is not
'God' -- except for those who would want to believe that anyway -- no
matter *how* absurd it is. Why is it that the theists can't use the same
measure of certitude that the monkey isn't 'God' when it comes to the
'God' *they* believe exists? There is no more 'proof' for the monkey
being 'God' than *whatever* the theists propose is 'God'. Think about it.
They've got NO more proof that my little hypothetical monkey friend is
'God' than *anything* they choose to offer up as 'theirs'. Did I say
'Retardville'?
(Dang! I *know* I offend a lot of people with my often scathing remarks
and demeaning 'style', but, damn-it, I am presently being treated in a
brutal manner by certain members of my community who profess to be
'Christians'. All their despicable and disgraceful behavior is
accomplishing is fostering an intense hatred of Christians that NO amount
of psychological 'therapy' will *ever* distinguish. And, in time, I will
say, 'YOU brought this on you dirt-bags, You and YOU alone! Phooey on
every single one of the vile bastards! (Sick? Yeah, I know. But you have
*no* idea what it is like for me out here. The MF's!)
And all this because I dared challenge their stupid, misguided beliefs.
Greywolf

Our earlier survival mechanisms were (and for the most part still are)
based on emotion, not logic. Emotional decisions, like fear, were very
successful in keeping our species alive. They are from countless centuries
of both evolutionary and naturally selective processes, probably inherent
in very many species.
A rabbit hears a rustle in the brush...fleeing instinctively makes it
capable of reproduction in the future. Pure survival. If it waited for
more evidence...it might be the wind blowing through a few leaves...or it
could be a fox...would always make it too late if wrong even once!
The emotion to fear and flee and protect itself (evidence or no evidence)
insures survival and procreation.
*Religion* speaks to that emotional survival mechanism, not to our logic
or reason. Logic and reason are luxuries derived from having survived
(thanks to those primitive emotions). We are no longer faced with that
kind of danger, and thinking with our logic and reason, instead of our
feelings, is an evolutionary survival mechanism too, just far more useful
for our current circumstances and development.
So it's not that believers in myth are idiots, but rather they are less
developed in their ability to separate emotional conclusions from reason.
If all you have to do is "believe something" to become immortal, that
speaks directly to the emotional desire to survive; but it is obviously
illogical!
Emotion wins the day, though completely irrational, because it is
virtually hard-wired into our neurology. In a sense, logic is still too
slow. Logic and reason are /developed/. Fear and emotion comes with the
package!
You are simply slightly more developed.
AcesLucky

Everything you said makes perfect sense. To buttress that notion a bit, I've
noticed a curious phenomenon when speaking to hardcore Christians. (And this
phenomenon *really* was noticeable when I was confined to an alcoholic
treatment center for a month -- and where I was subjected to an *avalanche*
of religious crap.) The phenomenon is this: Knowing that I am a good
Bible-versed atheist, I start to pin down a 'believer' with some sort of
contrary 'evidence' to either 'the bible contains no mistakes argument' or
some sort of contrary evidence to the statement of 'fact' that 'God' exists.
*Before* I would utter a *word* of my 'contrary evidence', I would see the
'believer' tighten up and start to grimace as if I was going to strike them
with my fist or something. I noticed this reaction any number of times.
Those people were fearful that I was going to 'burst their bubble' in some
way! And on a number of occasions, the person would become visibly *angry*
with me. So I think there is a *great* deal to what you say.
The irony of all this is that these Looney-Tunes are trying to impose their
nonsense on *us*! We're not advocating or 'pushing' atheism on anyone. We're
playing 'defense', not 'offense'. The goofs!
Greywolf

Yes; though that reaction happens often enough on 'both' sides, you are
actually doing the equivalent of attempting to snatch away a child's
security blanket (except this one's for adults). They instinctively
tighten-up their grip *before* the yank, to withstand your attempts.
With atheists, the grimace comes from repeated attempts to explain to
the child that there is no monster in the closet, when the house is
prone to noises of cracking and settling. No amount of "light" turned on
is going to allay those fears when the light goes out.
Some children eventually face those fears and grow up. Some never do.

And then become bishops, or get elected President of the United States
of Theocracy.

--

[Greywolf]

Post by Michael Gray

Post by AcesLucky

Post by Greywolf

Post by AcesLucky

Post by Greywolf

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are
nothing more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is
the 'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the
false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

Well one would *think* so, wouldn't one? At *best* all the theists can do
is point to 'irreducible complexity', their 'faith', or the 'offensive'
idea that it is incumbent upon we atheists to prove that 'God' *doesn't*
exist. See how pathetic their position is? That's 'Retardville' stuff.
And which makes me seriously wonder if there isn't something diabolically
wrong with the brains of these people. How *obvious* does it have to get
before these people comprehend that they are simply 'wrong'?
In another post, I posed the silly hypothesis that a certain monkey at
the local zoo was 'God'. Well, we all *know* that the monkey is not
'God' -- except for those who would want to believe that anyway -- no
matter *how* absurd it is. Why is it that the theists can't use the same
measure of certitude that the monkey isn't 'God' when it comes to the
'God' *they* believe exists? There is no more 'proof' for the monkey
being 'God' than *whatever* the theists propose is 'God'. Think about it.
They've got NO more proof that my little hypothetical monkey friend is
'God' than *anything* they choose to offer up as 'theirs'. Did I say
'Retardville'?
(Dang! I *know* I offend a lot of people with my often scathing remarks
and demeaning 'style', but, damn-it, I am presently being treated in a
brutal manner by certain members of my community who profess to be
'Christians'. All their despicable and disgraceful behavior is
accomplishing is fostering an intense hatred of Christians that NO amount
of psychological 'therapy' will *ever* distinguish. And, in time, I will
say, 'YOU brought this on you dirt-bags, You and YOU alone! Phooey on
every single one of the vile bastards! (Sick? Yeah, I know. But you have
*no* idea what it is like for me out here. The MF's!)
And all this because I dared challenge their stupid, misguided beliefs.
Greywolf

Our earlier survival mechanisms were (and for the most part still are)
based on emotion, not logic. Emotional decisions, like fear, were very
successful in keeping our species alive. They are from countless centuries
of both evolutionary and naturally selective processes, probably inherent
in very many species.
A rabbit hears a rustle in the brush...fleeing instinctively makes it
capable of reproduction in the future. Pure survival. If it waited for
more evidence...it might be the wind blowing through a few leaves...or it
could be a fox...would always make it too late if wrong even once!
The emotion to fear and flee and protect itself (evidence or no evidence)
insures survival and procreation.
*Religion* speaks to that emotional survival mechanism, not to our logic
or reason. Logic and reason are luxuries derived from having survived
(thanks to those primitive emotions). We are no longer faced with that
kind of danger, and thinking with our logic and reason, instead of our
feelings, is an evolutionary survival mechanism too, just far more useful
for our current circumstances and development.
So it's not that believers in myth are idiots, but rather they are less
developed in their ability to separate emotional conclusions from reason.
If all you have to do is "believe something" to become immortal, that
speaks directly to the emotional desire to survive; but it is obviously
illogical!
Emotion wins the day, though completely irrational, because it is
virtually hard-wired into our neurology. In a sense, logic is still too
slow. Logic and reason are /developed/. Fear and emotion comes with the
package!
You are simply slightly more developed.
AcesLucky

Everything you said makes perfect sense. To buttress that notion a bit, I've
noticed a curious phenomenon when speaking to hardcore Christians. (And this
phenomenon *really* was noticeable when I was confined to an alcoholic
treatment center for a month -- and where I was subjected to an *avalanche*
of religious crap.) The phenomenon is this: Knowing that I am a good
Bible-versed atheist, I start to pin down a 'believer' with some sort of
contrary 'evidence' to either 'the bible contains no mistakes argument' or
some sort of contrary evidence to the statement of 'fact' that 'God' exists.
*Before* I would utter a *word* of my 'contrary evidence', I would see the
'believer' tighten up and start to grimace as if I was going to strike them
with my fist or something. I noticed this reaction any number of times.
Those people were fearful that I was going to 'burst their bubble' in some
way! And on a number of occasions, the person would become visibly *angry*
with me. So I think there is a *great* deal to what you say.
The irony of all this is that these Looney-Tunes are trying to impose their
nonsense on *us*! We're not advocating or 'pushing' atheism on anyone. We're
playing 'defense', not 'offense'. The goofs!
Greywolf

Yes; though that reaction happens often enough on 'both' sides, you are
actually doing the equivalent of attempting to snatch away a child's
security blanket (except this one's for adults). They instinctively
tighten-up their grip *before* the yank, to withstand your attempts.
With atheists, the grimace comes from repeated attempts to explain to
the child that there is no monster in the closet, when the house is
prone to noises of cracking and settling. No amount of "light" turned on
is going to allay those fears when the light goes out.
Some children eventually face those fears and grow up. Some never do.

And then become bishops, or get elected President of the United States
of Theocracy.
--

Yes. And the President of the United States of Theocracy -- if given half a
chance -- would make our beloved country resemble pre-war Nazi Germany. Take
it from me, I am getting a pretty good picture of how these Nazis ....
ooops, Christians would treat 'professional' non-believers in their Utopia.
And it ain't one bit pretty.

Greywolf

[Greywolf]

Post by AcesLucky

Post by Greywolf

Post by AcesLucky

Post by Greywolf

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are
nothing more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is
the 'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all
the false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

Well one would *think* so, wouldn't one? At *best* all the theists can
do is point to 'irreducible complexity', their 'faith', or the
'offensive' idea that it is incumbent upon we atheists to prove that
'God' *doesn't* exist. See how pathetic their position is? That's
'Retardville' stuff. And which makes me seriously wonder if there isn't
something diabolically wrong with the brains of these people. How
*obvious* does it have to get before these people comprehend that they
are simply 'wrong'?
In another post, I posed the silly hypothesis that a certain monkey at
the local zoo was 'God'. Well, we all *know* that the monkey is not
'God' -- except for those who would want to believe that anyway -- no
matter *how* absurd it is. Why is it that the theists can't use the
same measure of certitude that the monkey isn't 'God' when it comes to
the 'God' *they* believe exists? There is no more 'proof' for the
monkey being 'God' than *whatever* the theists propose is 'God'. Think
about it. They've got NO more proof that my little hypothetical monkey
friend is 'God' than *anything* they choose to offer up as 'theirs'.
Did I say 'Retardville'?
(Dang! I *know* I offend a lot of people with my often scathing remarks
and demeaning 'style', but, damn-it, I am presently being treated in a
brutal manner by certain members of my community who profess to be
'Christians'. All their despicable and disgraceful behavior is
accomplishing is fostering an intense hatred of Christians that NO
amount of psychological 'therapy' will *ever* distinguish. And, in
time, I will say, 'YOU brought this on you dirt-bags, You and YOU
alone! Phooey on every single one of the vile bastards! (Sick? Yeah, I
know. But you have *no* idea what it is like for me out here. The
MF's!)
And all this because I dared challenge their stupid, misguided beliefs.
Greywolf

Our earlier survival mechanisms were (and for the most part still are)
based on emotion, not logic. Emotional decisions, like fear, were very
successful in keeping our species alive. They are from countless
centuries of both evolutionary and naturally selective processes,
probably inherent in very many species.
A rabbit hears a rustle in the brush...fleeing instinctively makes it
capable of reproduction in the future. Pure survival. If it waited for
more evidence...it might be the wind blowing through a few leaves...or
it could be a fox...would always make it too late if wrong even once!
The emotion to fear and flee and protect itself (evidence or no
evidence) insures survival and procreation.
*Religion* speaks to that emotional survival mechanism, not to our logic
or reason. Logic and reason are luxuries derived from having survived
(thanks to those primitive emotions). We are no longer faced with that
kind of danger, and thinking with our logic and reason, instead of our
feelings, is an evolutionary survival mechanism too, just far more
useful for our current circumstances and development.
So it's not that believers in myth are idiots, but rather they are less
developed in their ability to separate emotional conclusions from
reason. If all you have to do is "believe something" to become immortal,
that speaks directly to the emotional desire to survive; but it is
obviously illogical!
Emotion wins the day, though completely irrational, because it is
virtually hard-wired into our neurology. In a sense, logic is still too
slow. Logic and reason are /developed/. Fear and emotion comes with the
package!
You are simply slightly more developed.
AcesLucky

Everything you said makes perfect sense. To buttress that notion a bit,
I've noticed a curious phenomenon when speaking to hardcore Christians.
(And this phenomenon *really* was noticeable when I was confined to an
alcoholic treatment center for a month -- and where I was subjected to an
*avalanche* of religious crap.) The phenomenon is this: Knowing that I am
a good Bible-versed atheist, I start to pin down a 'believer' with some
sort of contrary 'evidence' to either 'the bible contains no mistakes
argument' or some sort of contrary evidence to the statement of 'fact'
that 'God' exists. *Before* I would utter a *word* of my 'contrary
evidence', I would see the 'believer' tighten up and start to grimace as
if I was going to strike them with my fist or something. I noticed this
reaction any number of times. Those people were fearful that I was going
to 'burst their bubble' in some way! And on a number of occasions, the
person would become visibly *angry* with me. So I think there is a
*great* deal to what you say.
The irony of all this is that these Looney-Tunes are trying to impose
their nonsense on *us*! We're not advocating or 'pushing' atheism on
anyone. We're playing 'defense', not 'offense'. The goofs!
Greywolf

Yes; though that reaction happens often enough on 'both' sides, you are
actually doing the equivalent of attempting to snatch away a child's
security blanket (except this one's for adults). They instinctively
tighten-up their grip *before* the yank, to withstand your attempts.
With atheists, the grimace comes from repeated attempts to explain to the
child that there is no monster in the closet, when the house is prone to
noises of cracking and settling. No amount of "light" turned on is going
to allay those fears when the light goes out.
Some children eventually face those fears and grow up. Some never do.

I neglected to get back to this thread for far too long. I apologize.

Dang, if you aren't right again! Unfortunately for me, this irrationality is
turning very deadly for me.

Greywolf

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Greywolf

Post by AcesLucky

Post by Greywolf

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are
nothing more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is
the 'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all
the false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

It's obvious YOUR god does not exist. But why bother advocating a
non-existing god? Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and we know
that love exists, therefore our God exists. Is this logic to complicated for
you?
Ever since I got to know Christ and His love and grace, I have been
selling my other gods. I have therefore a perfectly good and existing
Animist fertility god for sale, called Figa, which not only exists but
obviates Viagra, guaranteed. Want to make me an offer?

Post by Greywolf

Post by AcesLucky

Post by Greywolf
Well one would *think* so, wouldn't one? At *best* all the theists can
do is point to 'irreducible complexity', their 'faith', or the
'offensive' idea that it is incumbent upon we atheists to prove that
'God' *doesn't* exist. See how pathetic their position is? That's
'Retardville' stuff. And which makes me seriously wonder if there isn't
something diabolically wrong with the brains of these people. How
*obvious* does it have to get before these people comprehend that they
are simply 'wrong'?
In another post, I posed the silly hypothesis that a certain monkey at
the local zoo was 'God'. Well, we all *know* that the monkey is not
'God' -- except for those who would want to believe that anyway -- no
matter *how* absurd it is. Why is it that the theists can't use the same
measure of certitude that the monkey isn't 'God' when it comes to the
'God' *they* believe exists? There is no more 'proof' for the monkey
being 'God' than *whatever* the theists propose is 'God'. Think about
it. They've got NO more proof that my little hypothetical monkey friend
is 'God' than *anything* they choose to offer up as 'theirs'. Did I say
'Retardville'?
(Dang! I *know* I offend a lot of people with my often scathing remarks
and demeaning 'style', but, damn-it, I am presently being treated in a
brutal manner by certain members of my community who profess to be
'Christians'. All their despicable and disgraceful behavior is
accomplishing is fostering an intense hatred of Christians that NO
amount of psychological 'therapy' will *ever* distinguish. And, in time,
I will say, 'YOU brought this on you dirt-bags, You and YOU alone!
Phooey on every single one of the vile bastards! (Sick? Yeah, I know.
But you have *no* idea what it is like for me out here. The MF's!)
And all this because I dared challenge their stupid, misguided beliefs.
Greywolf

Why are you so vehement about other people's beliefs, yet not their
disbeliefs? Are you biased? It looks as if you are a true-disbeliever and
are looking for converts.

Post by Greywolf

Post by AcesLucky
Our earlier survival mechanisms were (and for the most part still are)
based on emotion, not logic. Emotional decisions, like fear, were very
successful in keeping our species alive. They are from countless
centuries of both evolutionary and naturally selective processes,
probably inherent in very many species.
A rabbit hears a rustle in the brush...fleeing instinctively makes it
capable of reproduction in the future. Pure survival. If it waited for
more evidence...it might be the wind blowing through a few leaves...or it
could be a fox...would always make it too late if wrong even once!
The emotion to fear and flee and protect itself (evidence or no evidence)
insures survival and procreation.
*Religion* speaks to that emotional survival mechanism, not to our logic
or reason. Logic and reason are luxuries derived from having survived
(thanks to those primitive emotions). We are no longer faced with that
kind of danger, and thinking with our logic and reason, instead of our
feelings, is an evolutionary survival mechanism too, just far more useful
for our current circumstances and development.
So it's not that believers in myth are idiots, but rather they are less
developed in their ability to separate emotional conclusions from reason.
If all you have to do is "believe something" to become immortal, that
speaks directly to the emotional desire to survive; but it is obviously
illogical!
Emotion wins the day, though completely irrational, because it is
virtually hard-wired into our neurology. In a sense, logic is still too
slow. Logic and reason are /developed/. Fear and emotion comes with the
package!
You are simply slightly more developed.
AcesLucky

The problem is that you are perceptually and philosophically challenged
and unable or unwilling to find definitions for proprietary religious words
that make sense to them. It's much easier to find rediculous definitions to
disbelieve in and reject ...the whole process being a religion all by
itself.

Post by Greywolf
Everything you said makes perfect sense. To buttress that notion a bit,
I've noticed a curious phenomenon when speaking to hardcore Christians.
(And this phenomenon *really* was noticeable when I was confined to an
alcoholic treatment center for a month -- and where I was subjected to an
*avalanche* of religious crap.) The phenomenon is this: Knowing that I am
a good Bible-versed atheist, I start to pin down a 'believer' with some
sort of contrary 'evidence' to either 'the bible contains no mistakes
argument' or some sort of contrary evidence to the statement of 'fact'
that 'God' exists. *Before* I would utter a *word* of my 'contrary
evidence', I would see the 'believer' tighten up and start to grimace as
if I was going to strike them with my fist or something. I noticed this
reaction any number of times. Those people were fearful that I was going
to 'burst their bubble' in some way! And on a number of occasions, the
person would become visibly *angry* with me. So I think there is a *great*
deal to what you say.
The irony of all this is that these Looney-Tunes are trying to impose
their nonsense on *us*! We're not advocating or 'pushing' atheism on
anyone. We're playing 'defense', not 'offense'. The goofs!
Greywolf

That's why you the disbeliever have to go to detox, but most of us
believers don't need to anymore. No belief nor disbelief can be "pushed" on
anyone. It's always a matter of choice. "goofs" indeed!!!

[ZenIsWhen]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are
nothing more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is
the 'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all
the false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

It's obvious YOUR god does not exist. But why bother advocating a
non-existing god? Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and we know
that love exists, therefore our God exists. Is this logic to complicated
for you?

YO!
Satan worshipier!

Not only is "God is love = Love is god" illogical, irrational and a totally
stupid claim claim ..............
it is something, many months ago,YOU YOURSELF said you never claim that!

Facts, like that, are why you are nothing more than a blatant, and mentally
corrupt, asshole.
It has nothing to do with christianity".

[Michael Gray]

Post by ZenIsWhen

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are
nothing more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is
the 'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all
the false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

It's obvious YOUR god does not exist. But why bother advocating a
non-existing god? Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and we know
that love exists, therefore our God exists. Is this logic to complicated
for you?

YO!
Satan worshipier!
Not only is "God is love = Love is god" illogical, irrational and a totally
stupid claim claim ..............
it is something, many months ago,YOU YOURSELF said you never claim that!
Facts, like that, are why you are nothing more than a blatant, and mentally
corrupt, asshole.
It has nothing to do with christianity".

What are you talking about?
"nothing more than a blatant, and mentally corrupt, asshole" is an
exact equivalent description of a benchmark Christian.
Most are much worse.

--

[Pastor Frank]

Post by ZenIsWhen

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are
nothing more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is
the 'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all
the false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

It's obvious YOUR god does not exist. But why bother advocating a
non-existing god? Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and we know
that love exists, therefore our God exists. Is this logic to complicated
for you?

YO!
Satan worshipier!
Not only is "God is love = Love is god" illogical, irrational and a
totally stupid claim claim ..............
it is something, many months ago,YOU YOURSELF said you never claim that!

I thought you had done enough trashing and flaming to satisfy you for a
while, and you were to go back to your favourite atheist groups? It may come
as a surprise to you but: A Dollars is green = green is a Dollars, doesn't
work.
But don't break your head over this. I merely quote the Bible, and your
disagreement is with the Bible not with me.

Post by ZenIsWhen
Facts, like that, are why you are nothing more than a blatant, and
mentally corrupt, asshole. It has nothing to do with christianity".

Well, lookahere, Zeni is all ascreech again with impotent hate and
rage!!!! LOL But then you always are, aren't you?
Ask Jesus into your heart and He will not only calm you down, but give
you life eternal.

[ªºª rrock]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by ZenIsWhen

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are
nothing more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is
the 'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all
the false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

It's obvious YOUR god does not exist. But why bother advocating a
non-existing god? Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and we know
that love exists, therefore our God exists. Is this logic to complicated
for you?

YO!
Satan worshipier!
Not only is "God is love = Love is god" illogical, irrational and a
totally stupid claim claim ..............
it is something, many months ago,YOU YOURSELF said you never claim that!

I thought you had done enough trashing and flaming to satisfy you for a
while, and you were to go back to your favourite atheist groups?

All of the Christians thought the same about you, Frank.
Be a good chap and make them all happy, okay? Thanks, oh and by
the way, thanks.

Post by Pastor Frank
It may come
as a surprise to you but: A Dollars is green = green is a Dollars, doesn't
work.
But don't break your head over this. I merely quote the Bible, and your
disagreement is with the Bible not with me.

Post by ZenIsWhen
Facts, like that, are why you are nothing more than a blatant, and
mentally corrupt, asshole. It has nothing to do with christianity".

Well, lookahere, Zeni is all ascreech again with impotent hate and
rage!!!! LOL But then you always are, aren't you?
Ask Jesus into your heart and He will not only calm you down, but give
you life eternal.

[Greywolf]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by ZenIsWhen

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are
nothing more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he
is the 'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite
all the false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

It's obvious YOUR god does not exist. But why bother advocating a
non-existing god? Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and we
know that love exists, therefore our God exists. Is this logic to
complicated for you?

YO!
Satan worshipier!
Not only is "God is love = Love is god" illogical, irrational and a
totally stupid claim claim ..............
it is something, many months ago,YOU YOURSELF said you never claim that!

I thought you had done enough trashing and flaming to satisfy you for a
while, and you were to go back to your favourite atheist groups? It may
come as a surprise to you but: A Dollars is green = green is a Dollars,
doesn't work.
But don't break your head over this. I merely quote the Bible, and your
disagreement is with the Bible not with me.

Post by ZenIsWhen
Facts, like that, are why you are nothing more than a blatant, and
mentally corrupt, asshole. It has nothing to do with christianity".

Well, lookahere, Zeni is all ascreech again with impotent hate and
rage!!!! LOL But then you always are, aren't you?
Ask Jesus into your heart and He will not only calm you down, but give
you life eternal.

Do you realize how truly laughable your last line is. Like Elvis, he was
'seen' alive after his death. Elvis' re-appeared as 'the King' too, you
know. Or did he?

Greywolf

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Greywolf

Post by Pastor Frank
Ask Jesus into your heart and He will not only calm you down, but give
you life eternal.

Do you realize how truly laughable your last line is. Like Elvis, he was
'seen' alive after his death. Elvis' re-appeared as 'the King' too, you
know. Or did he?
Greywolf

Whether it's "laughable" or not all depends on the definition of the
proprietary Christian words used. It's your definitions which make what I
said "laughable".
Once you get tired of chanting the same old atheist mantras, you too
will start to test other possible meanings to what strikes you "laughable".
In time and with some effort, you will see the jigsaw puzzle take shape and
reveal meanings which you never imagined before, but which were very much in
the minds of Biblical authors when they used these words.
All I can say is: Good hunting!!!

[Dubh Ghall]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Greywolf

Post by Pastor Frank
Ask Jesus into your heart and He will not only calm you down, but give
you life eternal.

As opposed to what, Frank?

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Greywolf
Do you realize how truly laughable your last line is. Like Elvis, he was
'seen' alive after his death. Elvis' re-appeared as 'the King' too, you
know. Or did he?
Greywolf

Whether it's "laughable" or not all depends on the definition of the
proprietary Christian words used.

I have asked you this before, Frank: What "proprietary Christian words".

Post by Pastor Frank
It's your definitions which make what I
said "laughable".

How can it be, Frank?
When we talk to you, it is YOUR definition that we are using; We don't have one.

The definitions which you dishonestly attribute to us, are nothing more than
your own straw men, and red herrings.

[Pastor Frank]

On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:13:22 -0400, "Pastor Frank"

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Greywolf

Post by Pastor Frank
Ask Jesus into your heart and He will not only calm you down, but give
you life eternal.

As opposed to what, Frank?

Screeching insanity as in: Jesus in Mt:8:12: But the children of
Satan's kingdom shall be cast into
outer darkness: There shall be wailing (of interminable complaints) and
gnashing of teeth (in frustration and impotent rage).

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Greywolf
Do you realize how truly laughable your last line is. Like Elvis, he was
'seen' alive after his death. Elvis' re-appeared as 'the King' too, you
know. Or did he?
Greywolf

Whether it's "laughable" or not all depends on the definition of the
proprietary Christian words used.

I have asked you this before, Frank: What "proprietary Christian words".

Sorry, but I am not going to waste my time listing and defining
Christian Biblical concepts, only to have you deny or ignore them all.

Post by Pastor Frank
It's your definitions which make what I said "laughable".

How can it be, Frank?
When we talk to you, it is YOUR definition that we are using; We don't have one.
The definitions which you dishonestly attribute to us, are nothing more than
your own straw men, and red herrings.

That's all just lies and atheist dogma. You don't know the definitions
Biblical authors used and you don't want to find out. All you want is
something to disbelieve, for disbelieving is YOUR religion.

[Greywolf]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Greywolf

Post by AcesLucky

Post by Greywolf

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are
nothing more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is
the 'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all
the false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

It's obvious YOUR god does not exist. But why bother advocating a
non-existing god? Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and we know
that love exists, therefore our God exists. Is this logic to complicated
for you?

You, being a relatively intelligent human being, *know* that is a bunch of
crap. You have no proof whatsover for your assertions. You are either
seriously deluded, or enjoy playing 'fly in my soup'. Your claims only goes
to show how far you will go to avoid the truth. It's pathetic.

Post by Pastor Frank
Ever since I got to know Christ and His love and grace,

You meant to say an 'imaginary 'Christ and his non-existent 'love and
grace', didn't you? Why in the world would I say that, you ask? Because
Jesus of Nazareth died some two-thousand years ago. Get over it.

I have been

Post by Pastor Frank
selling my other gods. I have therefore a perfectly good and existing
Animist fertility god for sale, called Figa, which not only exists but
obviates Viagra, guaranteed. Want to make me an offer?

Post by Greywolf

Post by AcesLucky

Post by Greywolf
Well one would *think* so, wouldn't one? At *best* all the theists can
do is point to 'irreducible complexity', their 'faith', or the
'offensive' idea that it is incumbent upon we atheists to prove that
'God' *doesn't* exist. See how pathetic their position is? That's
'Retardville' stuff. And which makes me seriously wonder if there isn't
something diabolically wrong with the brains of these people. How
*obvious* does it have to get before these people comprehend that they
are simply 'wrong'?
In another post, I posed the silly hypothesis that a certain monkey at
the local zoo was 'God'. Well, we all *know* that the monkey is not
'God' -- except for those who would want to believe that anyway -- no
matter *how* absurd it is. Why is it that the theists can't use the
same measure of certitude that the monkey isn't 'God' when it comes to
the 'God' *they* believe exists? There is no more 'proof' for the
monkey being 'God' than *whatever* the theists propose is 'God'. Think
about it. They've got NO more proof that my little hypothetical monkey
friend is 'God' than *anything* they choose to offer up as 'theirs'.
Did I say 'Retardville'?
(Dang! I *know* I offend a lot of people with my often scathing remarks
and demeaning 'style', but, damn-it, I am presently being treated in a
brutal manner by certain members of my community who profess to be
'Christians'. All their despicable and disgraceful behavior is
accomplishing is fostering an intense hatred of Christians that NO
amount of psychological 'therapy' will *ever* distinguish. And, in
time, I will say, 'YOU brought this on you dirt-bags, You and YOU
alone! Phooey on every single one of the vile bastards! (Sick? Yeah, I
know. But you have *no* idea what it is like for me out here. The
MF's!)
And all this because I dared challenge their stupid, misguided beliefs.
Greywolf

Why are you so vehement about other people's beliefs, yet not their
disbeliefs?

Because 'disbelief', in this case, is rooted in truth. Belief in 'God' is
decidedly not. In addition, you 'believers' have a bloody history of killing
'non-believers'. That has got to come to a stop. I am a living example of
what non-believers can come to expect from a truly theocratic Christian
'administration'. You people are 'Nazis' in 'Christian' clothing.

Are you biased?

Noooooooo! I want the Inquisition back in full force. I want a modern
version of the 'Salem Witch Trials' make a return. You sick mother F'rs.
(And I'm talking here about Christian fundamentalists in general.)

It looks as if you are a true-disbeliever and

Post by Pastor Frank
are looking for converts.

You got it wrong, Padre. I'm looking for people to look at their
'belief-system' anew, and in the light of truth.

Greywolf

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Greywolf

Post by AcesLucky
Our earlier survival mechanisms were (and for the most part still are)
based on emotion, not logic. Emotional decisions, like fear, were very
successful in keeping our species alive. They are from countless
centuries of both evolutionary and naturally selective processes,
probably inherent in very many species.
A rabbit hears a rustle in the brush...fleeing instinctively makes it
capable of reproduction in the future. Pure survival. If it waited for
more evidence...it might be the wind blowing through a few leaves...or
it could be a fox...would always make it too late if wrong even once!
The emotion to fear and flee and protect itself (evidence or no
evidence) insures survival and procreation.
*Religion* speaks to that emotional survival mechanism, not to our logic
or reason. Logic and reason are luxuries derived from having survived
(thanks to those primitive emotions). We are no longer faced with that
kind of danger, and thinking with our logic and reason, instead of our
feelings, is an evolutionary survival mechanism too, just far more
useful for our current circumstances and development.
So it's not that believers in myth are idiots, but rather they are less
developed in their ability to separate emotional conclusions from
reason. If all you have to do is "believe something" to become immortal,
that speaks directly to the emotional desire to survive; but it is
obviously illogical!
Emotion wins the day, though completely irrational, because it is
virtually hard-wired into our neurology. In a sense, logic is still too
slow. Logic and reason are /developed/. Fear and emotion comes with the
package!
You are simply slightly more developed.
AcesLucky

The problem is that you are perceptually and philosophically challenged
and unable or unwilling to find definitions for proprietary religious
words that make sense to them. It's much easier to find rediculous
definitions to disbelieve in and reject ...the whole process being a
religion all by itself.

Post by Greywolf
Everything you said makes perfect sense. To buttress that notion a bit,
I've noticed a curious phenomenon when speaking to hardcore Christians.
(And this phenomenon *really* was noticeable when I was confined to an
alcoholic treatment center for a month -- and where I was subjected to an
*avalanche* of religious crap.) The phenomenon is this: Knowing that I am
a good Bible-versed atheist, I start to pin down a 'believer' with some
sort of contrary 'evidence' to either 'the bible contains no mistakes
argument' or some sort of contrary evidence to the statement of 'fact'
that 'God' exists. *Before* I would utter a *word* of my 'contrary
evidence', I would see the 'believer' tighten up and start to grimace as
if I was going to strike them with my fist or something. I noticed this
reaction any number of times. Those people were fearful that I was going
to 'burst their bubble' in some way! And on a number of occasions, the
person would become visibly *angry* with me. So I think there is a
*great* deal to what you say.
The irony of all this is that these Looney-Tunes are trying to impose
their nonsense on *us*! We're not advocating or 'pushing' atheism on
anyone. We're playing 'defense', not 'offense'. The goofs!
Greywolf

That's why you the disbeliever have to go to detox, but most of us
believers don't need to anymore. No belief nor disbelief can be "pushed"
on anyone. It's always a matter of choice. "goofs" indeed!!!

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Greywolf

Post by Pastor Frank
It's obvious YOUR god does not exist. But why bother advocating a
non-existing god? Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and we know
that love exists, therefore our God exists. Is this logic to complicated
for you?

You, being a relatively intelligent human being, *know* that is a bunch of
crap. You have no proof whatsover for your assertions. You are either
seriously deluded, or enjoy playing 'fly in my soup'. Your claims only
goes to show how far you will go to avoid the truth. It's pathetic.

You are totally non sequitur and merely chanting atheist mantras again.
We Christians made a choice to believe in love and care to the death if need
be, a virtue Christ not only taught, but demonstrated.
Why would I need to "prove my assertion"? And why would believing in
love and care to the death if need be "deluded" or "pathetic"?
I think your lost it, when your refuting machine blew a fuse.

[Michael Gray]

Post by Greywolf

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are nothing
more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is the
'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the false
gods so his creations would not be deceived.

Well one would *think* so, wouldn't one? At *best* all the theists can do is
point to 'irreducible complexity', their 'faith', or the 'offensive' idea
that it is incumbent upon we atheists to prove that 'God' *doesn't* exist.
See how pathetic their position is? That's 'Retardville' stuff. And which
makes me seriously wonder if there isn't something diabolically wrong with
the brains of these people. How *obvious* does it have to get before these
people comprehend that they are simply 'wrong'?
In another post, I posed the silly hypothesis that a certain monkey at the
local zoo was 'God'. Well, we all *know* that the monkey is not 'God' --
except for those who would want to believe that anyway -- no matter *how*
absurd it is. Why is it that the theists can't use the same measure of
certitude that the monkey isn't 'God' when it comes to the 'God' *they*
believe exists? There is no more 'proof' for the monkey being 'God' than
*whatever* the theists propose is 'God'.

In fact, you will find that your proposal of a monkey-god has
infinitely more plausibility than their bullshit notions.

You can point to your 'god'.
You have solid evidence that your god exists.

Which is infinitely more than they have.
Plus you have everything that they claim as indications for their god,
that can be transferred to your simian, without any contradiction.

So, given a choice between the two putative 'gods', a rational person
would choose the monkey every time.

The difference is so vast as to be almost mind-boggling!

Post by Greywolf
Think about it. They've got NO more
proof that my little hypothetical monkey friend is 'God' than *anything*
they choose to offer up as 'theirs'. Did I say 'Retardville'?
(Dang! I *know* I offend a lot of people with my often scathing remarks and
demeaning 'style', but, damn-it, I am presently being treated in a brutal
manner by certain members of my community who profess to be 'Christians'.
All their despicable and disgraceful behavior is accomplishing is fostering
an intense hatred of Christians that NO amount of psychological 'therapy'
will *ever* distinguish. And, in time, I will say, 'YOU brought this on you
dirt-bags, You and YOU alone! Phooey on every single one of the vile
bastards! (Sick? Yeah, I know. But you have *no* idea what it is like for me
out here. The MF's!)

In my opinion, you are being too kind to these genocidal maniacs.
I used to be like you, but Bush changed all that.
500,000 dead Iraqi infants.
"It is a price that we are willing to pay" - Madeline Albright

Hanging is too good for these bastards, and the Churches and their
culpable members without whom these bastards would not be in power.

Being "slightly rude" pales by comparison to their active support of
genocide, for that is what most of the church-going public in the US
really are. Knowing accessories to genocide and war crimes.

Their 'screwing you' comes easy to them.

Post by Greywolf
And all this because I dared challenge their stupid, misguided beliefs.
Greywolf

--

[RobH]

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are
nothing more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is
the 'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all
the false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

The religious answer is always the same. They may attempt to tell you
about multitudes of passages, books, documents, etc., none that can ever
prove anything other than they were written by man. In the end they will
just say you must have faith. Then their ultimate kicker is if you don't
have faith, you burn in hell. Humanity is still in it's primitive
stages, as long as it's majority and societal decision makers believe in
made up stories to lead their lives and our cultures. If man could put
these fairy tales into their proper place as myths of primitive man, we
could advance rapidly in to doing everything we can to improve the lives
and well being of human life and all life. But of course many have
alterior motives for advancing their own personal well being by using
the ignorance of others primitive religious beliefs. It's harder to get
people to go on the battlefield if they don't believe they're going to
some magical heaven upon their deaths.

[MarkA]

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are nothing
more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is the
'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the false
gods so his creations would not be deceived.

If you go by the most 'obvious' explanation of the world, the
possibilities boil down to just a few:

God exists, but doesn't care if we worship Him or not.
God doesn't exist.
God is a hyper-intelligent, solitary being who has gone completely insane
from spending trillions of years with nobody at His level with whom to
converse. He amuses Himself by creating Universes containing beings
with rudimentary intelligence, giving them several religions with
conflicting beliefs, then watching them commit wholesale slaughter of
each other in the name of "righteousness". When He gets done with us, He
will move on to pulling the wings off of butterflies and putting cherry
bombs down some frogs' throats.

[Christopher A. Lee]

Post by MarkA

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are nothing
more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is the
'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the false
gods so his creations would not be deceived.

If you go by the most 'obvious' explanation of the world, the
God exists, but doesn't care if we worship Him or not.
God doesn't exist.
God is a hyper-intelligent, solitary being who has gone completely insane
from spending trillions of years with nobody at His level with whom to
converse. He amuses Himself by creating Universes containing beings
with rudimentary intelligence, giving them several religions with
conflicting beliefs, then watching them commit wholesale slaughter of
each other in the name of "righteousness". When He gets done with us, He
will move on to pulling the wings off of butterflies and putting cherry
bombs down some frogs' throats.

Why should one use language that starts off from the implicit
presumption of God, when there is no reason to do so apart from one
the beliefs of one of the thousands of different religions?

[Pastor Frank]

Post by MarkA

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are nothing
more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is the
'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the false
gods so his creations would not be deceived.

If you go by the most 'obvious' explanation of the world, the
God exists, but doesn't care if we worship Him or not.
God doesn't exist.
God is a hyper-intelligent, solitary being who has gone completely insane
from spending trillions of years with nobody at His level with whom to
converse. He amuses Himself by creating Universes containing beings
with rudimentary intelligence, giving them several religions with
conflicting beliefs, then watching them commit wholesale slaughter of
each other in the name of "righteousness". When He gets done with us, He
will move on to pulling the wings off of butterflies and putting cherry
bombs down some frogs' throats.

You are very close to the truth here, but go off the rails in the end,
just to be able to conclude with the appropriate atheist tenet featuring
your disbelief and cynicism. However, were to have God create Himself in the
diminished capacity of human beings, just like a dreamer dreams himself
acting in a populated world of his making, in order to experience life fully
from comedy to tragedy and vice versa, you would be closer to the truth.

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are nothing
more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is the
'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the false
gods so his creations would not be deceived.

That kind of god doesn't exist, Bill. Get used to it already, instead of
keep copy and paste the same posts over and over.

[AcesLucky]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are nothing
more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is the
'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the false
gods so his creations would not be deceived.

That kind of god doesn't exist, Bill. Get used to it already, instead of
keep copy and paste the same posts over and over.

Then what kind of god are YOU talking about? The god in the scriptures
talks, walks, creates and destroys things. What god are you talking about?

[ZenIsWhen]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are nothing
more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is the
'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the
false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

That kind of god doesn't exist, Bill. Get used to it already, instead
of keep copy and paste the same posts over and over.

Oh? You mean like your "god is love - love is god" crap?

[Bill M]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are nothing
more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is the
'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the
false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

That kind of god doesn't exist, Bill. Get used to it already, instead
of keep copy and paste the same posts over and over.

You quite obviouslly have no sensible answer to this post so engage in false
derogatory statements.

I challenge you to come up with ANY prior post of this statement. It
obviouslly is not a cut and past
because of the errors I made.

For your edifiction, this is the 'first' time I have posted this.

[ZenIsWhen]

Post by Bill M

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are
nothing more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is
the 'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the
false gods so his creations would not be deceived.

That kind of god doesn't exist, Bill. Get used to it already, instead
of keep copy and paste the same posts over and over.

You quite obviouslly have no sensible answer to this post so engage in
false derogatory statements.
I challenge you to come up with ANY prior post of this statement. It
obviouslly is not a cut and past
because of the errors I made.
For your edifiction, this is the 'first' time I have posted this.

It doesn't matter - FRANK has the cut and paste (and deranged) responses to
just about any post.

[kathryn]

Post by Bill M
The is obvious and basic evidence that no real gods exist and are nothing
more than the creations of man.
There are thousands of different gods and religious beliefs.
If there was a 'real' god he would anounce from his heaven that he is the
'real' god and all the others are fakes. He would also smite all the false
gods so his creations would not be deceived.

Ahh but because there are so many gods is evidence that there must be a god.