Post by Bill MIt appears there is much more interest and perhaps belief
in Atheism than there is in religion.
Following is the number of posts in these Newsgroups;
ATHEISM 922,000
RELIGION, GODS 12,400
RELIGION,CHRISTIAN 293,000
RELIGION 140,000
RELIGION.ALL.WORLDS 3,000
CHRISTIAN.RELIGION 48,000
There appears to be more interest in Alt.atheism than in
in all the religious groups combined.
It appears atheist are more prevelant on the Internet than the religionists.
Yes, many people are interested in what atheists think. The trouble
is, you can seldom get atheists to offer his or her honest thoughts.
They skirt around the topic, scared they may say the wrong thing which
would undermine their dogmatic skepticism.
The reason people generally don't like the atheist is that they are an
unknown quantity. With Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, (to a
lesser degree) people can look at their religious guidelines and see
what the person stands for and how they supposedly apply their
spiritual beliefs in everyday life.
In addition, many atheists here are extreme, militant atheists and
that draws attention, albeit negative attention, through their hate
filled message.
The moderate theist accepts a moderate atheist, just as a moderate
atheist accepts a moderate theist. It is out of balance, extreme views
that sets one apart.
Problems within society do not come from Muslims...the problems come
from extreme Muslims. Same with all the rest whether Christian or
Atheist...seek balance...seek inner peace within and with all.
As soon as one becomes a dogmatic skeptic or a dogmatic theist, they
are headed for extremism and they put truth on the back burner.
Greywolf brought up a few complaints about Christians that are not
treating him right.
When such theists do not walk the talk they espouse, they probably
need a little help.
After all, we are all human and make mistakes, we get off track and
take the wrong direction once in a while. When this happens give em
some KIND help and let go of the desire of the hate filled message you
are tempted to deliver.
In my own life, I seldom get much success by guiding people on the
right track, but I still work in the right direction, and do not have
expectations of success or failure with my work...I just do it!
Remember, expectations are pre-planned resentments, so work blind when
it comes to expectations.
Even though most atheists are unknown quantities, the atheists have a
set of guidelines to live by if they are secular humanists.
So if you are dealing with an atheist that is rubbing you wrong, ask
them if they are a secular humanist and if so, review the creed of
their 'religion' and the Affirmations of Humanism with them and give
em a little help if need be. We are all here to help each other
out...are we not?
Atheist Creed http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/
An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An Atheist believes
that heaven is something for which we should work now - here on earth
for all men together to enjoy.
An Atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he
must find in himself the inner conviction, and strength to meet life,
to grapple with it, to subdue it and enjoy it.
An Atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a
knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will
help to a life of fulfillment. He seeks to know himself and his fellow
man rather than to know a god. An Atheist believes that a hospital
should be built instead of a church.
An Atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer
said.
An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death.
He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He
wants man to understand and love man.
He wants an ethical way of life. He believes that we cannot rely on a
god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a
hereafter.
He believes that we are our brother's keepers; and are keepers of our
own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the
time is now."
"The Affirmations of Humanism: A Statement of Principles"
� We are committed to the application of reason and science to the
understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems.
� We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to
explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature
for salvation.
� We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute
to the betterment of human life.
� We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is
the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian
elites and repressive majorities.
� We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and
state.
� We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of
resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.
� We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and
with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.
� We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so
that they will be able to help themselves.
� We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race,
religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or
ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of
humanity.
� We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future
generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other
species.
� We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our
creative talents to their fullest.
� We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.
� We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to
fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to
exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and
informed health-care, and to die with dignity.
� We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity,
honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to
critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we
discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.
� We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We
want to nourish reason and compassion.
� We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.
� We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still
to be made in the cosmos.
� We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to
novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking.
� We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of
despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal
significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.
� We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than
despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance,
joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love
instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of
ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.
� We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that
we are capable of as human beings.
Council for Secular Humanism
Buddhists?
They subscribe to The Eightfold Path & The Five Precepts
"The Eightfold Path"
1. Right View
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration
The Five precepts are the 'commandments' more or less for Buddhists.
Although they are not commanded to do a thing. If they wish to live at
peace, then they proceed the best they can - but it is their choice.
"The Five Precepts"
1. Refrain from Killing
2. Refrain from Stealing
3. Refrain from Sexual Misconduct
4. Refrain from False Speech
5. Refrain from the Use of Intoxicants
Christians?
They can be boiled down to 'love thy neighbor as thyself.'
Christians try to avoid the seven deadly sins:
Pride
Lust
Sloth
Greed
Gluttony
Wrath
Envy
Aren't these seven deadly sins good for all of us to avoid in
general...even the atheists???
Additional Christian virtues are comprised of The Corporal Works of
Mercy and The Spiritual Works of Mercy
"The Corporal Works of Mercy"
To feed the hungry
To give drink to the thirsty
To clothe the naked
To harbour the harbourless
To visit the sick
To ransom the captive
To bury the dead
"The Spiritual Works of Mercy"
To instruct the ignorant
To counsel the doubtful
To admonish sinners
To bear wrongs patiently
To forgive offenses willingly
To comfort the afflicted
To pray for the living and the dead
Talk of spiritual studies Al Klein?
Spiritual values and atheists do not generally mix.
You see Al, spiritual work involves what cannot be seen. This 'working
with the invisible' is what distinguishes the corporal from the
spiritual my friend.
I am not always referring to organized religion when I use such terms.
Atheist or not, there are many unseen and supernatural mysteries in
the world. The spiritual studies deals with such mysteries, for the
root of spiritualism is that of the unseen and the force behind it
all.
Yes, spiritual concepts are hard to define, just as the source of the
wind is hard to define. Since spiritual matters deal with the unseen
and the unknown, how can we define them perfectly? If we could do that
they would not be spiritual studies. You can't see why one person is
loving and kind and another person is a fiend of perennial shame, hate
and destruction. Nor can you see what made the hate monger change into
a kind and loving human.
We can describe spiritual concepts and the journey that made the
change possible, but it is impossible to put our finger on it all
exactly. Spiritual growth is a journey that is a never ending, an
imperfect process in this life. But just as we can see the effects of
the wind, while being blind to its source; we can most definitely see
the difference in people that incorporate spiritual values within
their lives when compared to people that live a life devoid of any
spiritual values.
"No man is so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other
counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for
a master." Ben Jonson
No one said we have to 'investigate it all,' but we do have to give it
some thought if we wish to be at peace Al.
A Hindu sage once told me "Just as water floes downhill without effort
but requires outside forces and energy to make it move uphill. So the
human consciousness falls to its lowest levels of the senses without
effort and energies to make our consciousness gravitate to more than
our base desires."
As such without effort the defiance based atheists sinks deeper and
deeper into sickness and tragedy as time goes by. And this ugly life
you have created for yourself Al can be change simply by taking that
first step in the opposite direction that you have been headed in all
your life my friend.
Same advice for Raven, Robibnikoff, Mark K. Bilbo, Michael Gray, Kate,
Floyd, Neil Kelsey, Michelle Milkin, Ghod, Parsifa, Martin, Lucifer,
Syd M, John #1782, Enkidu, Hollis, Gail, Rev. Karl E. Taylor, Martin,
BuddyThunder, NC, Stoney, Medusa, David Silverman aka Sanity's Little
Helper...you can all have a new life this very instant..the only thing
holding you back is your ego. Drop the ego and find peace and joy. I
will be glad to guide any of you on the journey, all you have to do is
to write me direct and we can start immediately. I charge nothing and
expect nothing - I only offer peace to you.
Getting back to the monotheists and trying to figure out Islam?
They are a little tougher to decipher than the Christians or
Buddhists, especially since most of their religion is based in foreign
languages and not translated as readily into the English.
In addition, many extreme factions that bend things to suit their ego
based need. In any case, they have along list of excellent guidelines
to live by. But really the monotheist of Jews, Christians and Islam
all worship the same God of Yahweh. Islam just calls Yahweh by the
name of Allah.
Here are the guidelines from the Qur'an.
1. Respect and honour all human beings irrespective of their
religion,
colour, race, sex, language, status, property, birth, profession/job
and so on [Qur'an17/70]
2. Talk straight, to the point, without any ambiguity or deception
[Qur'an33/70]
3. Choose best words to speak and say them in the best possible way
[Qur'an17/53, 2/83]
4. Do not shout. Speak politely keeping your voice low. [Qur'an31/19]
5. Always speak the truth. Shun words that are deceitful and
ostentatious [Qur'an22/30]
6. Do not confound truth with falsehood [Qur'an2/42]
7. Say with your mouth what is in your heart [Qur'an3/167]
8. Speak in a civilised manner in a language that is recognised by
the
society and is commonly used [Qur'an4/5]
9. When you voice an opinion, be just, even if it is against a
relative [Qur'an6/152]
10. Do not be a bragging boaster [Qur'an31/18]
11. Do not talk, listen or do anything vain [Qur'an23/3, 28/55]
12. Do not participate in any paltry. If you pass near a futile play,
then pass by with dignity [Qur'an25/72]
13. Do not verge upon any immodesty or lewdness whether surreptitious
or overt [Qur'an6/151]
14. If, unintentionally, any misconduct occurs by you, then correct
yourself expeditiously [Qur'an3/134]
15. Do not be contemptuous or arrogant with people [Qur'an31/18]
16. Do not walk haughtily or with conceit [Qur'an17/37, 31/18]
17. Be moderate in thy pace [Qur'an31/19]
18. Walk with humility and sedateness [Qur'an25/63]
19. Keep your gazes lowered devoid of any lecherous leers and
salacious stares [Qur'an24/30-31, 40/19]
20. If you do not have complete knowledge about anything, it is
better
to keep silent. You might think that speaking about something without
full knowledge is a trivial matter. But it might have grave
consequences
[Qur'an24/15-16]
21. When you hear something malicious about someone, keep a
favourable
view about him/her until you attain full knowledge about the matter.
Consider others innocent until they are proven guilty with solid and
truthful evidence [Qur'an24/12-13]
22. Ascertain the truth of any news, lest you smite someone in
ignorance and afterwards repent of what you did [Qur'an49/6]
23. Do not follow blindly any information of which you have no direct
knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception) you
must verify it for yourself. In the Court of your Lord, you will be
held
accountable for your hearing, sight, and the faculty of reasoning
[Qur'an17/36]
24. Never think that you have reached the final stage of knowledge
and
nobody knows more than yourself. Remember! Above everyone endowed
with
knowledge is another endowed with more knowledge [Qur'an12/76]. Even
the Prophet [p.b.u.h] was asked to keep praying, "O My sustainer!
Advance
me in knowledge." [Qur'an20:114]
25. The believers are but a single Brotherhood. Live like members of
one family, brothers and sisters unto one another [Qur'an49/10]
26. Do not make mockery of others or ridicule others [Qur'an49/11]
27. Do not defame others [Qur'an49/11]
28. Do not insult others by nicknames [Qur'an49/11]
29. Avoid suspicion and guesswork. Suspicion and guesswork might
deplete your communal energy [Qur'an49/12]
30. Spy not upon one another [Qur'an49/12]
31. Do not backbite one another [Qur'an49/12]
32. When you meet each other, offer good wishes and blessings for
safety. One who conveys to you a message of safety and security and
also when a courteous greeting is offered to you, meet it with a
greeting
still more courteous or (at least) of equal courtesy [Qur'an4/86]
33. When you enter your own home or the home of somebody else,
compliment the inmates [Qur'an24/61]
34. Do not enter houses other than your own until you have sought
permission; and then greet the inmates and wish them a life of
blessing,purity and pleasure [Qur'an24/27]
35. Treat kindly: Your parents; Relatives; The orphans; And those who
have been left alone in the society [Qur'an4/36]
36. Take care of: The needy, The disabled, Those whose hard earned
income is insufficient to meet their needs; And those whose
businesses have stalled ; And those who have lost their jobs.
[Qur'an4/36]
37. Treat kindly: Your related neighbours, and unrelated neighbours;
Companions by your side in public gatherings, or public
transportation.[Qur'an4/36]
38. Be generous to the needy wayfarer, the homeless son of the
street,and the one who reaches you in a destitute condition
[Qur'an4/36]
39. Be nice to people who work under your care. [Qur'an4/36]
40. Do not follow up what you have given to others to afflict them
with reminders of your generosity [Qur'an2/262]
41. Do not expect a return for your good behaviour, not even thanks
[Qur'an76/9]
42. Cooperate with one another in good deeds and do not cooperate
with
others in evil and bad matters [Qur'an5/2]
43. Do no try to impress people on account of self-proclaimed virtues
[Qur'an53/32]
44. You should enjoin right conduct on others but mend your own ways
first. Actions speak louder than words. You must first practice good
deeds yourself, then preach [Qur'an2/44]
45. Correct yourself and your families first [before trying to
correct
others] [Qur'an66/6]
46. Pardon gracefully if anyone among you who commits a bad deed out
of ignorance, and then repents and amends [Qur'an6/54, 3/134]
47. Divert and sublimate your anger and potentially virulent emotions
to creative energy, and become a source of tranquillity and comfort
to
people [Qur'an3/134]
48. Call people to the Way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful
exhortation. Reason with them most decently [Qur'an16/125]
49. Leave to themselves those who do not give any importance to the
Divine code and have adopted and consider it as mere play and
amusement [Qur'an6/70]
50. Sit not in the company of those who ridicule Divine Law unless
they engage in some other conversation [Qur'an4/140]
51. Do not be jealous of those who are blessed [Qur'an4/54]
52. In your collective life, make rooms for others [Qur'an58/11]
53. When invited to dine, Go at the appointed time. Do not arrive too
early to wait for the preparation of meal or linger after eating to
engage in bootless babble. Such things may cause inconvenience to the
host [Qur'an33/53]
54. Eat and drink [what is lawful] in moderation [Qur'an7/31]
55. Do not squander your wealth senselessly [Qur'an17/26]
56. Fulfil your promises and commitments [Qur'an17/34]
57. Keep yourself clean, pure [Qur'an9/108, 4/43, 5/6]
58. Dress-up in agreeable attire and adorn yourself with exquisite
character from inside out [Qur'an7/26]
59. Seek your provision only by fair endeavour [Qur'an29/17, 2/188]
60. Do not devour the wealth and property of others unjustly, nor
bribe the officials or the judges to deprive others of their
possessions
[Qur'an2/188]
So, as I told you, if you happen upon a person in pain or not living
by their religions creed give em a little help.
Yes, we are all here to help each other out...are we not?
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2