THE CONDUCT OF ONES LIFE

[Bill M]

There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although there may
be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove the 'actual
origin of life'. Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.

For those that want to believe in god and their religion there is a
compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes. They should not base their
lives on church leadership or the
opinions, claims, myths and fables of ancient poorly educated mystics. They
should rely
on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.

For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the evidence of science
and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on hopes and dreams!

And whether we believe in some god creator or only in life itself we must
remember that modern man is totally
dependent on society. Just visualize yourself naked in a huge wilderness.
Could you even survive, much less
prosper, for a significant period of time? None of us can survive or thrive
independently. Whether we like it
or not, our survival and prosperity are totally dependent on and supported
by greater society.

Our prosperity is dependent on and limited by the prosperity of our greater
society

[Richo]

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although there may
be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove the 'actual
origin of life'.

Curiosity wants to be satisied as to how it happened -- "God did it"
doesnt work as an explanation and will never satisfy those of us with
any curiosity - we want reasonable and believable explanations - not
"proof".

Post by Bill M
Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.

Well said Bill.
Congratulations.

Post by Bill M
For those that want to believe in god and their religion there is a
compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes.

Aparently not.
You have started back on your baseless assertions again Bill.

Mark.

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Richo

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although there may
be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove the 'actual
origin of life'.

Curiosity wants to be satisied as to how it happened -- "God did it"
doesnt work as an explanation and will never satisfy those of us with
any curiosity - we want reasonable and believable explanations - not
"proof".

"God did it", is the only logical explanation you will get. You just
haven't found the basic assumption yet, which makes this possible.

[JEM]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 01:32:29 +0800, "Pastor Frank"

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Richo

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although there may
be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove the 'actual
origin of life'.

Curiosity wants to be satisied as to how it happened -- "God did it"
doesnt work as an explanation and will never satisfy those of us with
any curiosity - we want reasonable and believable explanations - not
"proof".

"God did it", is the only logical explanation you will get. You just
haven't found the basic assumption yet, which makes this possible.

It is not a logical assumption. It is not based on any reality.
The basic assumption I think you are depending on is the most
illogical belief of and in fantasy.

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although there
may be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove the
'actual origin of life'. Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion there is a
compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes. They should not base
their lives on church leadership or the
opinions, claims, myths and fables of ancient poorly educated mystics.
They should rely
on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the evidence of science
and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on hopes and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is all about.
Why would you want to rob people of their hopes and dreams? You are such a
party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition does indeed not
exist and is merely your personal and private straw man. Now believe us
already, or if you can't, then believe how holy scripture defines the word
"God". See below

Pastor Frank

"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:
Jesus in Jn:4:24: "GOD IS A SPIRIT, and they that worship him must
worship him in spirit and in truth."
Jesus in John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me,
ye should have known my Father also, and from henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND
HAVE SEEN HIM."
Philip saith unto him: "Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
Jesus saith unto him: "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAS SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER;
and how sayest thou then: Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am
in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak
not of myself, but the FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN ME, HE DOETH THE WORKS."
Jesus in Jn:10:30: I and my Father are one.
Jesus in John 12:44-46`Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes
in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees me sees
Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever
believes in me should not abide in darkness."
Jesus in Lk 17:20-21: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of
God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo
there! For, behold, the kingdom of GOD IS WITHIN YOU."
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Jesus in Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one
another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples,
if ye have love one to another.
Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye love one another,
as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down
his life for his friends.
Acts:17:28: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain
also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Proverbs 10:22 God is nearer than our own soul, closer than our most
secret thoughts.

[Pangur Ban]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although there may
be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove the
'actual origin of life'. Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion there is a
compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes. They should not base
their lives on church leadership or the
opinions, claims, myths and fables of ancient poorly educated mystics. They
should rely
on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the evidence of science
and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on hopes and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is all about.

Your "better tomorrow" comes only after death. Instead of sitting and
praying for a better tomorrow, would it not be better to get up off
one's knees and DO something to provide a better tomorrow here and now?
Join a clean-up crew for keeping a stretch of road or highway clean;
join Habitat for Humanity; volunteer for any group in your community
which needs volunteers; open a church soup kitchen for the hungry - ANY
hungry (not just select hungry which is what the local Baptist church
does) - and don't make prayer a requirement for a meal; etc,

Post by Pastor Frank
Why would you want to rob people of their hopes and dreams? You are such a
party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition does indeed not
exist and is merely your personal and private straw man. Now believe us
already,

Typical fundamentalist demand .... BELIEVE as I do!

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although there
may be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove the
'actual origin of life'. Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion there is a
compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes. They should not base
their lives on church leadership or the
opinions, claims, myths and fables of ancient poorly educated mystics.
They should rely on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the evidence of
science and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on hopes and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is all about.

Your "better tomorrow" comes only after death. Instead of sitting and
praying for a better tomorrow, would it not be better to get up off one's
knees and DO something to provide a better tomorrow here and now? Join a
clean-up crew for keeping a stretch of road or highway clean; join
Habitat for Humanity; volunteer for any group in your community which
needs volunteers; open a church soup kitchen for the hungry - ANY hungry
(not just select hungry which is what the local Baptist church does) - and
don't make prayer a requirement for a meal; etc,

You are wrong on all counts. "after death" indeed!!!! Check out how many
feeding stations of the poor there are manned by Christians and compare that
with atheist feeding stations manned by atheists.

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank
Why would you want to rob people of their hopes and dreams? You are such
a party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition does indeed
not exist and is merely your personal and private straw man. Now believe
us already,

Typical fundamentalist demand .... BELIEVE as I do!

That's the way it is in a free society. We all can advocate, promote,
advertise and sell freely. If you don't like it, go to Communist China,
where they don't allow any un-authorized god-speak of any sort.

[Pangur Ban]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although there
may be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove the
'actual origin of life'. Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion there is a
compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes. They should not base
their lives on church leadership or the
opinions, claims, myths and fables of ancient poorly educated mystics.
They should rely on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the evidence of
science and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on hopes and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is all about.

Your "better tomorrow" comes only after death. Instead of sitting and
praying for a better tomorrow, would it not be better to get up off one's
knees and DO something to provide a better tomorrow here and now? Join a
clean-up crew for keeping a stretch of road or highway clean; join Habitat
for Humanity; volunteer for any group in your community which needs
volunteers; open a church soup kitchen for the hungry - ANY hungry (not
just select hungry which is what the local Baptist church does) - and don't
make prayer a requirement for a meal; etc,

You are wrong on all counts. "after death" indeed!!!! Check out how many
feeding stations of the poor there are manned by Christians and compare that
with atheist feeding stations manned by atheists.

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank
Why would you want to rob people of their hopes and dreams? You are such a
party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition does indeed
not exist and is merely your personal and private straw man. Now believe
us already,

Typical fundamentalist demand .... BELIEVE as I do!

That's the way it is in a free society. We all can advocate, promote,
advertise and sell freely.

Your product isn't doing too well .... rejected at the polls, declining
church attendance ... instead of demanding people buy your product,
perhaps you need to improve it and retrain the sellers (Haggard
perhaps?).

[Al Klein]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 17:02:06 -0700, Pangur Ban

Post by Pangur Ban
Your product isn't doing too well .... rejected at the polls, declining
church attendance ... instead of demanding people buy your product,
perhaps you need to improve it and retrain the sellers (Haggard
perhaps?).

Or get some who use the product themselves?

[Pangur Ban]

Post by Al Klein
On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 17:02:06 -0700, Pangur Ban

Post by Pangur Ban
Your product isn't doing too well .... rejected at the polls, declining
church attendance ... instead of demanding people buy your product,
perhaps you need to improve it and retrain the sellers (Haggard
perhaps?).

Or get some who use the product themselves?

If the sellers are retrained, the sheep (a small but vocal minority)
will follow. :-)

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although
there may be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove the
'actual origin of life'. Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion there is a
compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes. They should not base
their lives on church leadership or the
opinions, claims, myths and fables of ancient poorly educated mystics.
They should rely on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the evidence of
science and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on hopes and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is all about.

Your "better tomorrow" comes only after death. Instead of sitting and
praying for a better tomorrow, would it not be better to get up off
one's knees and DO something to provide a better tomorrow here and now?
Join a clean-up crew for keeping a stretch of road or highway clean;
join Habitat for Humanity; volunteer for any group in your community
which needs volunteers; open a church soup kitchen for the hungry - ANY
hungry (not just select hungry which is what the local Baptist church
does) - and don't make prayer a requirement for a meal; etc,

You are wrong on all counts. "after death" indeed!!!! Check out how
many feeding stations of the poor there are manned by Christians and
compare that with atheist feeding stations manned by atheists.

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank
Why would you want to rob people of their hopes and dreams? You are
such a party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition does
indeed not exist and is merely your personal and private straw man. Now
believe us already,

Typical fundamentalist demand .... BELIEVE as I do!

That's the way it is in a free society. We all can advocate, promote,
advertise and sell freely.

Your product isn't doing too well .... rejected at the polls, declining
church attendance ... instead of demanding people buy your product,
perhaps you need to improve it and retrain the sellers (Haggard perhaps?).

Our "product" is doing just fine and there is no "demand" that anyone
buy into religion, it must always be a free choice. Most adore idealistic
people, and atheism has no ideals and therefore will never appeal to many.

[Pangur Ban]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although there
may be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove the
'actual origin of life'. Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion there is a
compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes. They should not base
their lives on church leadership or the
opinions, claims, myths and fables of ancient poorly educated mystics.
They should rely on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the evidence of
science and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on hopes and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is all about.

Your "better tomorrow" comes only after death. Instead of sitting and
praying for a better tomorrow, would it not be better to get up off one's
knees and DO something to provide a better tomorrow here and now? Join a
clean-up crew for keeping a stretch of road or highway clean; join
Habitat for Humanity; volunteer for any group in your community which
needs volunteers; open a church soup kitchen for the hungry - ANY hungry
(not just select hungry which is what the local Baptist church does) -
and don't make prayer a requirement for a meal; etc,

You are wrong on all counts. "after death" indeed!!!! Check out how
many feeding stations of the poor there are manned by Christians and
compare that with atheist feeding stations manned by atheists.

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank
Why would you want to rob people of their hopes and dreams? You are such
a party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition does indeed
not exist and is merely your personal and private straw man. Now believe
us already,

Typical fundamentalist demand .... BELIEVE as I do!

That's the way it is in a free society. We all can advocate, promote,
advertise and sell freely.

Your product isn't doing too well .... rejected at the polls, declining
church attendance ... instead of demanding people buy your product, perhaps
you need to improve it and retrain the sellers (Haggard perhaps?).

Our "product" is doing just fine

Oh, yes. Sure. *pat* on head ... keep believing that in the face of
reality. Your two major celebrations of your religion for the majority
of people is food, gifts, and eggs.... the religious message ignored.
How sad. This should be a major signal that the tenets of your
religion need serious overhauling as the man-added to god's basic
message has obscured that message to the point of non-recognition of
it. Love ye one another... but where is the love in the exclusion of
gays, the attempted intrusions into personal lives and personal
decisions, the silly attempts to have the symbols of your religion
plastered in public areas where they are either offensive to the
non-christians in this country or are ignored as irrelevant by the
majority of the public? Go back to the basics ... love and acceptance
... and not just in words, but in deeds too.

Post by Pastor Frank
and there is no "demand" that anyone buy
into religion

Your words: "Now believe us already,...."

Post by Pastor Frank
, it must always be a free choice. Most adore idealistic people,

You consider yourself idealistic? You think you are adored? What
hubris!

Post by Pastor Frank
and atheism has no ideals and therefore will never appeal to many.

Religion does not engender ideals ... look at the crimes which are
reported in the press committed by christians... including pastors and
priests. Where are their ideals? Don't presume there are motes in
atheist eyes till you remove the beams from christianity's.

[Ben Goren]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Why would you want to rob people of their hopes and
dreams? You are such a party-pooper, Bill!!!! And we keep
telling you, that the god of your definition does indeed
not exist and is merely your personal and private straw
man. Now believe us already,

Typical fundamentalist demand .... BELIEVE as I do!

That's the way it is in a free society. We all can advocate,
promote, advertise and sell freely.

Your product isn't doing too well .... rejected at the polls,
declining church attendance ... instead of demanding people
buy your product, perhaps you need to improve it and retrain
the sellers (Haggard perhaps?).

Our "product" is doing just fine

Oh, yes. Sure. *pat* on head ... keep believing that in the
face of reality. Your two major celebrations of your religion
for the majority of people is food, gifts, and eggs.... the
religious message ignored.

Au contraire! Those are /exactly/ the religious messages. It's
just that they're the religious messages of the original holidays
that the Christians stole from.

How sad. This should be a major signal that the tenets of your
religion need serious overhauling as the man-added to god's
basic message has obscured that message to the point of
non-recognition of it. Love ye one another... but where is the
love in the exclusion of gays, the attempted intrusions into
personal lives and personal decisions, the silly attempts to
have the symbols of your religion plastered in public areas
where they are either offensive to the non-christians in this
country or are ignored as irrelevant by the majority of the
public? Go back to the basics ... love and acceptance ... and
not just in words, but in deeds too.
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and
mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea,
and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I
came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law
against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of
me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not
worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is
not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth
his life for my sake shall find it.

I could continue at great length, but you get the point. There's
Jesus's love of the gnashing of teeth that he'll be dispensing in
Hell to all those who don't grovel properly at his feet. There's
his whole ``you're either with me or against me'' attitude (and
those very words). There's his command (by way of a parable) that
his followers kill every single heretic they find. There's the
literal Armageddon that he'll bring when he comes back. There's
his support for and praise of slavery (the centurion's slave that
Jesus refused to free). And on and on and on....

And don't make the mistrake that Christianity is about love of
all mankind, either. You'd be hard pressed to find a more
anti-Semitic book than the New Testament; those ``Pharisees''
were nothing more than the rank-and-file Rabbis. The vicious
distortion of the Jewish legal process portrayed in the trial is
especially nasty. And gender equality? Forget it. Paul hated women
and homosexuals with a passion that's plainly obvious to anybody
who reads his writing. And, again, on and on and on and on....

What Christians tell you about love in their religion is a
boldfaced lie. Even those rare few pleasant-sounding excerpts,
such as the Sermon on the Mount, are filled with a really, really
nasty subcurrent.

Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and
persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you
falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in
heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before
you.

``Suffer, you miserable bastards, and don't you dare do anything
to better your lot, if you know what's good for you.'' Mother
Theresa's /modus operandus/ in a nutshell.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one
jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all
be fulfilled.

That ``law'' is the Pentatuch, which is /really/ nasty. You can
rape unwed girls and get away with it; you can torture your slaves
all you want as long as you don't do it on Saturday; women have
the exact same status as livestock; death by torture for the
silliest little offenses; and more.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall
exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall
in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

``Don't worry, we'll be keeping all those filthy Jews out of our
club.''

25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the
way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the
judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be
cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out
thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Can you say ``battered wife syndrome''? I knew you could.

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust
after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

And let's hear it for sexual repression!

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it
from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members
should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into
hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it
from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members
should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into
hell.

Woah, dude! Ix-nay on the elf-say utilation-may!

32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife,
saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit
adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced
committeth adultery.

The other side of the spousal abuse coin.

Really, it's most distressing that this bullshit is held up as the
utmost example of ``lovingkindness.'' Anybody who made this speech
today would be shouted down as a racist, sexist, sociopathic
power-hungry bigot -- and most rightly so.

Cheers,

b&

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although
there may be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove the
'actual origin of life'. Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion there is a
compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes. They should not
base their lives on church leadership or the
opinions, claims, myths and fables of ancient poorly educated
mystics. They should rely on current objective verifiable
'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the evidence of
science and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on hopes and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is all about.

Your "better tomorrow" comes only after death. Instead of sitting and
praying for a better tomorrow, would it not be better to get up off
one's knees and DO something to provide a better tomorrow here and
now? Join a clean-up crew for keeping a stretch of road or highway
clean; join Habitat for Humanity; volunteer for any group in your
community which needs volunteers; open a church soup kitchen for the
hungry - ANY hungry (not just select hungry which is what the local
Baptist church does) - and don't make prayer a requirement for a meal;
etc,

You are wrong on all counts. "after death" indeed!!!! Check out how
many feeding stations of the poor there are manned by Christians and
compare that with atheist feeding stations manned by atheists.

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank
Why would you want to rob people of their hopes and dreams? You are
such a party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition does
indeed not exist and is merely your personal and private straw man.
Now believe us already,

Typical fundamentalist demand .... BELIEVE as I do!

That's the way it is in a free society. We all can advocate,
promote, advertise and sell freely.

Your product isn't doing too well .... rejected at the polls, declining
church attendance ... instead of demanding people buy your product,
perhaps you need to improve it and retrain the sellers (Haggard perhaps?).

Our "product" is doing just fine

Oh, yes. Sure. *pat* on head ... keep believing that in the face of
reality. Your two major celebrations of your religion for the majority of
people is food, gifts, and eggs.... the religious message ignored. How
sad. This should be a major signal that the tenets of your religion need
serious overhauling as the man-added to god's basic message has obscured
that message to the point of non-recognition of it. Love ye one
another... but where is the love in the exclusion of gays, the attempted
intrusions into personal lives and personal decisions, the silly attempts
to have the symbols of your religion plastered in public areas where they
are either offensive to the non-christians in this country or are ignored
as irrelevant by the majority of the public? Go back to the basics ...
love and acceptance ... and not just in words, but in deeds too.

Post by Pastor Frank
and there is no "demand" that anyone buy into religion

Your words: "Now believe us already,...."

Why not finish the sentence? I.e. "Believe us already, that the god of
your definition does indeed NOT exist". You should be glad for the
confirmation. But then complaining eternally is atheist doctrine, and most
atheists would rather be dead, than affirm or support anything nor anyone.

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank
, it must always be a free choice. Most adore idealistic people,

You consider yourself idealistic? You think you are adored? What hubris!

Post by Pastor Frank
and atheism has no ideals and therefore will never appeal to many.

Religion does not engender ideals ... look at the crimes which are
reported in the press committed by christians... including pastors and
priests. Where are their ideals? Don't presume there are motes in
atheist eyes till you remove the beams from christianity's.
--
Pangur Ban - nonchristian theist

[Pangur Ban]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although
there may be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove the
'actual origin of life'. Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion there is a
compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes. They should not
base their lives on church leadership or the
opinions, claims, myths and fables of ancient poorly educated
mystics. They should rely on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the evidence of
science and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on hopes and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is all about.

Your "better tomorrow" comes only after death. Instead of sitting and
praying for a better tomorrow, would it not be better to get up off
one's knees and DO something to provide a better tomorrow here and now?
Join a clean-up crew for keeping a stretch of road or highway clean;
join Habitat for Humanity; volunteer for any group in your community
which needs volunteers; open a church soup kitchen for the hungry - ANY
hungry (not just select hungry which is what the local Baptist church
does) - and don't make prayer a requirement for a meal; etc,

You are wrong on all counts. "after death" indeed!!!! Check out how
many feeding stations of the poor there are manned by Christians and
compare that with atheist feeding stations manned by atheists.

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank
Why would you want to rob people of their hopes and dreams? You are
such a party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition does
indeed not exist and is merely your personal and private straw man.
Now believe us already,

Typical fundamentalist demand .... BELIEVE as I do!

That's the way it is in a free society. We all can advocate,
promote, advertise and sell freely.

Your product isn't doing too well .... rejected at the polls, declining
church attendance ... instead of demanding people buy your product,
perhaps you need to improve it and retrain the sellers (Haggard perhaps?).

Our "product" is doing just fine

Oh, yes. Sure. *pat* on head ... keep believing that in the face of
reality. Your two major celebrations of your religion for the majority of
people is food, gifts, and eggs.... the religious message ignored. How
sad. This should be a major signal that the tenets of your religion need
serious overhauling as the man-added to god's basic message has obscured
that message to the point of non-recognition of it. Love ye one another...
but where is the love in the exclusion of gays, the attempted intrusions
into personal lives and personal decisions, the silly attempts to have the
symbols of your religion plastered in public areas where they are either
offensive to the non-christians in this country or are ignored as
irrelevant by the majority of the public? Go back to the basics ... love
and acceptance ... and not just in words, but in deeds too.

Post by Pastor Frank
and there is no "demand" that anyone buy into religion

Your words: "Now believe us already,...."

Why not finish the sentence? I.e. "Believe us already, that the god of
your definition does indeed NOT exist". You should be glad for the
confirmation. But then complaining eternally is atheist doctrine, and most
atheists would rather be dead, than affirm or support anything nor anyone.

Your sentence was "Now believe us already, or if you can't, then
believe how holy scripture defines the word "God".

You are demanding that if people, atheists or theists, don't believe
you personally, they must believe your book of fables, myths, history,
pure invention,etc. - 99% of which obscures the tenets of the Divine
One (emphasis on ONE as in one God) .... the One of which yours is just
a facet.

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank
, it must always be a free choice. Most adore idealistic people,

You consider yourself idealistic? You think you are adored? What hubris!

Post by Pastor Frank
and atheism has no ideals and therefore will never appeal to many.

Religion does not engender ideals ... look at the crimes which are reported
in the press committed by christians... including pastors and priests.
Where are their ideals? Don't presume there are motes in atheist eyes till
you remove the beams from christianity's.
-- Pangur Ban - nonchristian theist

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although
there may be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove
the 'actual origin of life'. Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion there is
a compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes. They should not
base their lives on church leadership or the
opinions, claims, myths and fables of ancient poorly educated
mystics. They should rely on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the evidence of
science and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on hopes
and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is all about.

Your "better tomorrow" comes only after death. Instead of sitting
and praying for a better tomorrow, would it not be better to get up
off one's knees and DO something to provide a better tomorrow here
and now? Join a clean-up crew for keeping a stretch of road or
highway clean; join Habitat for Humanity; volunteer for any group
in your community which needs volunteers; open a church soup kitchen
for the hungry - ANY hungry (not just select hungry which is what
the local Baptist church does) - and don't make prayer a requirement
for a meal; etc,

You are wrong on all counts. "after death" indeed!!!! Check out
how many feeding stations of the poor there are manned by Christians
and compare that with atheist feeding stations manned by atheists.

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank
Why would you want to rob people of their hopes and dreams? You are
such a party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition does
indeed not exist and is merely your personal and private straw man.
Now believe us already,

Typical fundamentalist demand .... BELIEVE as I do!

That's the way it is in a free society. We all can advocate,
promote, advertise and sell freely.

Your product isn't doing too well .... rejected at the polls,
declining church attendance ... instead of demanding people buy your
product, perhaps you need to improve it and retrain the sellers
(Haggard perhaps?).

Our "product" is doing just fine

Oh, yes. Sure. *pat* on head ... keep believing that in the face of
reality. Your two major celebrations of your religion for the majority
of people is food, gifts, and eggs.... the religious message ignored.
How sad. This should be a major signal that the tenets of your religion
need serious overhauling as the man-added to god's basic message has
obscured that message to the point of non-recognition of it. Love ye
one another... but where is the love in the exclusion of gays, the
attempted intrusions into personal lives and personal decisions, the
silly attempts to have the symbols of your religion plastered in public
areas where they are either offensive to the non-christians in this
country or are ignored as irrelevant by the majority of the public? Go
back to the basics ... love and acceptance ... and not just in words,
but in deeds too.

Post by Pastor Frank
and there is no "demand" that anyone buy into religion

Your words: "Now believe us already,...."

Why not finish the sentence? I.e. "Believe us already, that the god
of your definition does indeed NOT exist". You should be glad for the
confirmation. But then complaining eternally is atheist doctrine, and
most atheists would rather be dead, than affirm or support anything nor
anyone.

Your sentence was "Now believe us already, or if you can't, then believe
how holy scripture defines the word "God".
You are demanding that if people, atheists or theists, don't believe you
personally, they must believe your book of fables, myths, history, pure
invention,etc. - 99% of which obscures the tenets of the Divine One
(emphasis on ONE as in one God) .... the One of which yours is just a
facet.

LOL There you are calling yourself a theist, yet do nothing but trash
other theist's beliefs. Tell us already why YOUR particular god should be so
superior to ours, or keep your peace already.

[Ben Goren]

LOL There you are calling yourself a theist, yet do nothing
but trash other theist's beliefs. Tell us already why YOUR
particular god should be so superior to ours, or keep your
peace already.

Now *this* should be entertaining: an argument over who's got the
best imaginary friend!

Cheers,

b&

[Pangur Ban]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although
there may be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove
the 'actual origin of life'. Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion there is a
compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes. They should not
base their lives on church leadership or the
opinions, claims, myths and fables of ancient poorly educated
mystics. They should rely on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the evidence of
science and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on hopes
and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is all about.

Your "better tomorrow" comes only after death. Instead of sitting
and praying for a better tomorrow, would it not be better to get up
off one's knees and DO something to provide a better tomorrow here
and now? Join a clean-up crew for keeping a stretch of road or
highway clean; join Habitat for Humanity; volunteer for any group in
your community which needs volunteers; open a church soup kitchen for
the hungry - ANY hungry (not just select hungry which is what the
local Baptist church does) - and don't make prayer a requirement for
a meal; etc,

You are wrong on all counts. "after death" indeed!!!! Check out
how many feeding stations of the poor there are manned by Christians
and compare that with atheist feeding stations manned by atheists.

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank
Why would you want to rob people of their hopes and dreams? You are
such a party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition does
indeed not exist and is merely your personal and private straw man.
Now believe us already,

Typical fundamentalist demand .... BELIEVE as I do!

That's the way it is in a free society. We all can advocate,
promote, advertise and sell freely.

Your product isn't doing too well .... rejected at the polls, declining
church attendance ... instead of demanding people buy your product,
perhaps you need to improve it and retrain the sellers (Haggard perhaps?).

Our "product" is doing just fine

Oh, yes. Sure. *pat* on head ... keep believing that in the face of
reality. Your two major celebrations of your religion for the majority
of people is food, gifts, and eggs.... the religious message ignored. How
sad. This should be a major signal that the tenets of your religion need
serious overhauling as the man-added to god's basic message has obscured
that message to the point of non-recognition of it. Love ye one
another... but where is the love in the exclusion of gays, the attempted
intrusions into personal lives and personal decisions, the silly attempts
to have the symbols of your religion plastered in public areas where they
are either offensive to the non-christians in this country or are ignored
as irrelevant by the majority of the public? Go back to the basics ...
love and acceptance ... and not just in words, but in deeds too.

Post by Pastor Frank
and there is no "demand" that anyone buy into religion

Your words: "Now believe us already,...."

Why not finish the sentence? I.e. "Believe us already, that the god of
your definition does indeed NOT exist". You should be glad for the
confirmation. But then complaining eternally is atheist doctrine, and most
atheists would rather be dead, than affirm or support anything nor anyone.

Your sentence was "Now believe us already, or if you can't, then believe
how holy scripture defines the word "God".
You are demanding that if people, atheists or theists, don't believe you
personally, they must believe your book of fables, myths, history, pure
invention,etc. - 99% of which obscures the tenets of the Divine One
(emphasis on ONE as in one God) .... the One of which yours is just a
facet.

LOL There you are calling yourself a theist, yet do nothing but trash
other theist's beliefs. Tell us already why YOUR particular god should be so
superior to ours, or keep your peace already.

Trying to imply something I have not said will not work. I addressed
my comments about beliefs to YOU, personally. I have no problem with
the the majority of theists' beliefs; I do condemn your errant
interpretations and your personal usage of your religion to try to gain
power and control over others. Christians had the beginnings of a
religion which would have been admirable - then it was twisted,
perverted, and trashed by several centuries of men adding their own
agendas and personal beliefs to it; hence my statement that your book
is full of myths, history, fables, and pure invention. As a monotheist
I find the attempts to make a man named Jesus a co-equal or even
replacement of god unacceptable.

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life.
Although there may be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove
the 'actual origin of life'. Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion there
is a compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes. They should
not base their lives on church leadership or the
opinions, claims, myths and fables of ancient poorly educated
mystics. They should rely on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the evidence
of science and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on hopes
and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is
all about.

Your "better tomorrow" comes only after death. Instead of sitting
and praying for a better tomorrow, would it not be better to get
up off one's knees and DO something to provide a better tomorrow
here and now? Join a clean-up crew for keeping a stretch of road
or highway clean; join Habitat for Humanity; volunteer for any
group in your community which needs volunteers; open a church soup
kitchen for the hungry - ANY hungry (not just select hungry which
is what the local Baptist church does) - and don't make prayer a
requirement for a meal; etc,

You are wrong on all counts. "after death" indeed!!!! Check out
how many feeding stations of the poor there are manned by
Christians and compare that with atheist feeding stations manned by
atheists.

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank
Why would you want to rob people of their hopes and dreams? You
are such a party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition does
indeed not exist and is merely your personal and private straw
man. Now believe us already,

Typical fundamentalist demand .... BELIEVE as I do!

That's the way it is in a free society. We all can advocate,
promote, advertise and sell freely.

Your product isn't doing too well .... rejected at the polls,
declining church attendance ... instead of demanding people buy your
product, perhaps you need to improve it and retrain the sellers
(Haggard perhaps?).

Our "product" is doing just fine

Oh, yes. Sure. *pat* on head ... keep believing that in the face of
reality. Your two major celebrations of your religion for the
majority of people is food, gifts, and eggs.... the religious message
ignored. How sad. This should be a major signal that the tenets of
your religion need serious overhauling as the man-added to god's basic
message has obscured that message to the point of non-recognition of
it. Love ye one another... but where is the love in the exclusion of
gays, the attempted intrusions into personal lives and personal
decisions, the silly attempts to have the symbols of your religion
plastered in public areas where they are either offensive to the
non-christians in this country or are ignored as irrelevant by the
majority of the public? Go back to the basics ... love and acceptance
... and not just in words, but in deeds too.

Post by Pastor Frank
and there is no "demand" that anyone buy into religion

Your words: "Now believe us already,...."

Why not finish the sentence? I.e. "Believe us already, that the god
of your definition does indeed NOT exist". You should be glad for the
confirmation. But then complaining eternally is atheist doctrine, and
most atheists would rather be dead, than affirm or support anything nor
anyone.

Your sentence was "Now believe us already, or if you can't, then believe
how holy scripture defines the word "God".
You are demanding that if people, atheists or theists, don't believe you
personally, they must believe your book of fables, myths, history, pure
invention,etc. - 99% of which obscures the tenets of the Divine One
(emphasis on ONE as in one God) .... the One of which yours is just a
facet.

LOL There you are calling yourself a theist, yet do nothing but trash
other theist's beliefs. Tell us already why YOUR particular god should be
so superior to ours, or keep your peace already.

Trying to imply something I have not said will not work. I addressed my
comments about beliefs to YOU, personally. I have no problem with the
the majority of theists' beliefs; I do condemn your errant
interpretations and your personal usage of your religion to try to gain
power and control over others. Christians had the beginnings of a
religion which would have been admirable - then it was twisted, perverted,
and trashed by several centuries of men adding their own agendas and
personal beliefs to it; hence my statement that your book is full of
myths, history, fables, and pure invention. As a monotheist I find the
attempts to make a man named Jesus a co-equal or even replacement of god
unacceptable.
Pangur Ban - nonchristian theist

Now that is YOUR religion, which we don't relentlessly attack as you
attack ours. Will you allow us to have our own religious beliefs, based on
the Christian NT Bible, or do you demand we adopt yours based on nothing
more than your own imagination?
If so, you would better start preaching the glories of YOUR God soon, or
you will never get any converts.

[Pangur Ban]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although
there may be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove
the 'actual origin of life'. Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion there is
a compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes. They should not
base their lives on church leadership or the
opinions, claims, myths and fables of ancient poorly educated
mystics. They should rely on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the evidence
of science and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on hopes
and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is
all about.

Your "better tomorrow" comes only after death. Instead of sitting
and praying for a better tomorrow, would it not be better to get up
off one's knees and DO something to provide a better tomorrow here
and now? Join a clean-up crew for keeping a stretch of road or
highway clean; join Habitat for Humanity; volunteer for any group
in your community which needs volunteers; open a church soup
kitchen for the hungry - ANY hungry (not just select hungry which
is what the local Baptist church does) - and don't make prayer a
requirement for a meal; etc,

You are wrong on all counts. "after death" indeed!!!! Check out
how many feeding stations of the poor there are manned by Christians
and compare that with atheist feeding stations manned by atheists.

Post by Pangur Ban

Post by Pastor Frank
Why would you want to rob people of their hopes and dreams? You
are such a party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition does
indeed not exist and is merely your personal and private straw
man. Now believe us already,

Typical fundamentalist demand .... BELIEVE as I do!

That's the way it is in a free society. We all can advocate,
promote, advertise and sell freely.

Your product isn't doing too well .... rejected at the polls,
declining church attendance ... instead of demanding people buy your
product, perhaps you need to improve it and retrain the sellers
(Haggard perhaps?).

Our "product" is doing just fine

Oh, yes. Sure. *pat* on head ... keep believing that in the face of
reality. Your two major celebrations of your religion for the majority
of people is food, gifts, and eggs.... the religious message ignored.
How sad. This should be a major signal that the tenets of your
religion need serious overhauling as the man-added to god's basic
message has obscured that message to the point of non-recognition of
it. Love ye one another... but where is the love in the exclusion of
gays, the attempted intrusions into personal lives and personal
decisions, the silly attempts to have the symbols of your religion
plastered in public areas where they are either offensive to the
non-christians in this country or are ignored as irrelevant by the
majority of the public? Go back to the basics ... love and acceptance
... and not just in words, but in deeds too.

Post by Pastor Frank
and there is no "demand" that anyone buy into religion

Your words: "Now believe us already,...."

Why not finish the sentence? I.e. "Believe us already, that the god
of your definition does indeed NOT exist". You should be glad for the
confirmation. But then complaining eternally is atheist doctrine, and
most atheists would rather be dead, than affirm or support anything nor
anyone.

Your sentence was "Now believe us already, or if you can't, then believe
how holy scripture defines the word "God".
You are demanding that if people, atheists or theists, don't believe you
personally, they must believe your book of fables, myths, history, pure
invention,etc. - 99% of which obscures the tenets of the Divine One
(emphasis on ONE as in one God) .... the One of which yours is just a
facet.

LOL There you are calling yourself a theist, yet do nothing but trash
other theist's beliefs. Tell us already why YOUR particular god should be
so superior to ours, or keep your peace already.

Trying to imply something I have not said will not work. I addressed my
comments about beliefs to YOU, personally. I have no problem with the the
majority of theists' beliefs; I do condemn your errant interpretations and
your personal usage of your religion to try to gain power and control over
others. Christians had the beginnings of a religion which would have been
admirable - then it was twisted, perverted, and trashed by several
centuries of men adding their own agendas and personal beliefs to it;
hence my statement that your book is full of myths, history, fables, and
pure invention. As a monotheist I find the attempts to make a man named
Jesus a co-equal or even replacement of god unacceptable.
Pangur Ban - nonchristian theist

Now that is YOUR religion, which we don't relentlessly attack as you
attack ours.

How can your co-religionists - or are you using the royal "we"? - as
you have NO idea what it is except it is nonchristian and monotheistic.

Post by Pastor Frank
Will you allow us to have our own religious beliefs, based on
the Christian NT Bible, or do you demand we adopt yours based on nothing more
than your own imagination?

PLEASE do not adopt mine! I love it as it is - you (personally) would
find some way to pervert it.

PF, I have no problem with folks being christians; most of them are
decent, generous, kind, moral folks...... somehow despite the efforts
of some pastors they have managed to hold to the foundations of
christianity (some of which are my foundations too). I have problems
with pastors who teach some of the most atrocious ideas which they
claim are based on scripture. Rape and bigotry just to name two.

Look at this quote; READ it slowly and carefully for what I am saying,
not what yogi THINK I am saying. There is no attack on christianity in
it.

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Pangur Ban
Your two major celebrations of your religion for the majority
of people is food, gifts, and eggs.... the religious message ignored.
How sad. This should be a major signal that the tenets of your
religion need serious overhauling as the man-added to god's basic
message has obscured that message to the point of non-recognition of
it. Love ye one another... but where is the love in the exclusion of
gays, the attempted intrusions into personal lives and personal
decisions, the silly attempts to have the symbols of your religion
plastered in public areas where they are either offensive to the
non-christians in this country or are ignored as irrelevant by the
majority of the public? Go back to the basics ... love and acceptance
... and not just in words, but in deeds too.

See? It is a suggestion to back to the basics of christianity: LOVE
YE ONE ANOTHER ..... and Jesus included the tax collectors, the
prostitutes, the poor, and though the bible doesn't say so (not that I
remember anyway) I would wager that gays and criminals and murderers
and abortionists and who-knows-else were in the crowds who heard his
words. He turned away no one ....... christianity needs to go back to
that.

Post by Pastor Frank
If so, you would better start preaching the glories of YOUR God soon, or
you will never get any converts.

I do not want any. My religion is what I think religion should be ...
a private and personal relationship with my deity. No need for
pastors, priests, reverends, bishops, etc.; they are hold-overs from
when the majority of people were illiterate. No need to go around
preaching, no airing my beliefs, no wearing insignia, no bumper-sticker
on my vehicle,etc. Simply, I live my religion - not talk it. Just me
and my deity.

[Ben Goren]

But then complaining eternally is atheist doctrine, and most
atheists would rather be dead, than affirm or support anything
nor anyone.

Yet *more* nasty slanderous bullshit from a Christian pastor. And
people wonder why Christers have such a nasty reputation 'round
these parts....

I have no death wish -- quite the contrary. The irrational part
of me hopes to live healthily long enough to outpace modern
medicine's advancements in life expectancy, effectively achieving
immortality as Ray Kurzweil likes to predict.

I affirm and support the Constitution of the United States. Under
the right circumstances, I'd even sacrifice my life to defend it
and the people it protects.

There's plenty more that I affirm and support, all the way down to
the hummingbirds who do their damndest to go through more sugar
than I suspect is physically possible.

Now, can we get an apology, or do I have to go all BAAWA on your
sorry ass? Again?

Cheers,

b&

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Ben Goren

But then complaining eternally is atheist doctrine, and most
atheists would rather be dead, than affirm or support anything
nor anyone.

Yet *more* nasty slanderous bullshit from a Christian pastor. And
people wonder why Christers have such a nasty reputation 'round
these parts....
I have no death wish -- quite the contrary. The irrational part
of me hopes to live healthily long enough to outpace modern
medicine's advancements in life expectancy, effectively achieving
immortality as Ray Kurzweil likes to predict.
I affirm and support the Constitution of the United States. Under
the right circumstances, I'd even sacrifice my life to defend it
and the people it protects.
There's plenty more that I affirm and support, all the way down to
the hummingbirds who do their damndest to go through more sugar
than I suspect is physically possible.
Now, can we get an apology, or do I have to go all BAAWA on your
sorry ass? Again?
Cheers,
b&

The subject above is about the quality one's conduct. Christ is about
being humane as being the prime quality defining a good person. Nothing you
say above deals with character qualities. Therefore you are non sequitur.

[Ben Goren]

Post by Pastor Frank

But then complaining eternally is atheist doctrine, and most
atheists would rather be dead, than affirm or support anything nor anyone.

Yet *more* nasty slanderous bullshit from a Christian
pastor. And people wonder why Christers have such a nasty
reputation 'round these parts....
I have no death wish -- quite the contrary. The irrational
part of me hopes to live healthily long enough to outpace
modern medicine's advancements in life expectancy, effectively
achieving immortality as Ray Kurzweil likes to predict.
I affirm and support the Constitution of the United
States. Under the right circumstances, I'd even sacrifice my
life to defend it and the people it protects.
There's plenty more that I affirm and support, all the way down
to the hummingbirds who do their damndest to go through more
sugar than I suspect is physically possible.
Now, can we get an apology, or do I have to go all BAAWA on
your sorry ass? Again?

The subject above is about the quality one's conduct.

Oh, I see. You're one of those assholes who think that the
Constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper, that it has
nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of one's conduct.

You goddamned filthy sonofabitch motherfucking traitor. Do you
have any fucking /clue/ just how much blood, sweat, and tears have
gone into that piece of paper? How it's done more to bring
about heaven on Earth in two hundred years than your vitriolic
hate-filled Bible has in ten times as long?

Fuck off, eat shit, and die a most unspeakable death, Christer
scum.

Post by Pastor Frank
Christ is about being humane as being the prime quality defining
a good person.

Let's examine what your Christ says about being humane, shall we?

Luke 14:26 If any /man/ come to me, and hate not his father, and
mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea,
and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should
reign over them, bring hither, and slay /them/ before me.

Matthew 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that
gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out
into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of
teeth. (This just before refusing to free a slave from Roman
oppression.)

So, your ``humane'' love god is really a hate god who not only
wants his followers to hate and kill everybody around them, but
will personally see to the eternal torture of pretty much every
single human being when it comes right down to it.

Look, asshole, you wouldn't recognize a ``prime quality defining a
good person'' if it were written on a piece of paper. You'd just
wipe your ass with it.

Post by Pastor Frank
Nothing you say above deals with character qualities. Therefore
you are non sequitur.

You've done /far/ more than enough to demonstrate your own
character qualities. Yet I'd still rather be a non sequitur than a
traitor.

Go to hell, you filthy pile of shit.

b&

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Ben Goren

Post by Pastor Frank

But then complaining eternally is atheist doctrine, and most
atheists would rather be dead, than affirm or support anything nor anyone.

Yet *more* nasty slanderous bullshit from a Christian
pastor. And people wonder why Christers have such a nasty
reputation 'round these parts....
I have no death wish -- quite the contrary. The irrational
part of me hopes to live healthily long enough to outpace
modern medicine's advancements in life expectancy, effectively
achieving immortality as Ray Kurzweil likes to predict.
I affirm and support the Constitution of the United
States. Under the right circumstances, I'd even sacrifice my
life to defend it and the people it protects.
There's plenty more that I affirm and support, all the way down
to the hummingbirds who do their damndest to go through more
sugar than I suspect is physically possible.
Now, can we get an apology, or do I have to go all BAAWA on
your sorry ass? Again?

The subject above is about the quality one's conduct.

Oh, I see. You're one of those assholes who think that the
Constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper, that it has
nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of one's conduct.
You goddamned filthy sonofabitch motherfucking traitor. Do you
have any fucking /clue/ just how much blood, sweat, and tears have
gone into that piece of paper? How it's done more to bring
about heaven on Earth in two hundred years than your vitriolic
hate-filled Bible has in ten times as long?
Fuck off, eat shit, and die a most unspeakable death, Christer
scum.

Post by Pastor Frank
Christ is about being humane as being the prime quality defining
a good person.

Let's examine what your Christ says about being humane, shall we?
Luke 14:26 If any /man/ come to me, and hate not his father, and
mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea,
and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should
reign over them, bring hither, and slay /them/ before me.
Matthew 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that
gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out
into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of
teeth. (This just before refusing to free a slave from Roman
oppression.)
So, your ``humane'' love god is really a hate god who not only
wants his followers to hate and kill everybody around them, but
will personally see to the eternal torture of pretty much every
single human being when it comes right down to it.
Look, asshole, you wouldn't recognize a ``prime quality defining a
good person'' if it were written on a piece of paper. You'd just
wipe your ass with it.

Post by Pastor Frank
Nothing you say above deals with character qualities. Therefore
you are non sequitur.

You've done /far/ more than enough to demonstrate your own
character qualities. Yet I'd still rather be a non sequitur than a
traitor.
Go to hell, you filthy pile of shit.

You can tell all that to Jesus personally when you stand in front of His
throne on judgment day. I can already hear all the demons of hell screeching
with glee at the thought of you giving heck to Jesus, the Lamb of God.

[Ben Goren]

You can tell all that to Jesus personally when you stand in
front of His throne on judgment day. I can already hear all the
demons of hell screeching with glee at the thought of you
giving heck to Jesus, the Lamb of God.

And, at last, we see revealed why /true/ Christians like Pastor
Frank are such vile, despicable, and miserable wretches.

For Jesus is most emphatically *NOT* a love god, despite repeated
Christian claims to the contrary.

Jesus is, instead, exactly what he appears to be: Lord and Master
of the Demons of Hell, the ultimate boogie-man who positively
drools at the mere thought of getting his blood-soaked claws into
some fresh meat.

Fuck off and die, demon ass-licker Frank. It's bad enough that
you're too much of an ignorant git to tell fantasy from
history...but it takes the most depraved kind of sociopath to
worship the incarnation of pure evil -- and an even worse one to
then drape the garments of a ``love'' god over the perversion.

Cheers,

b&

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Ben Goren

You can tell all that to Jesus personally when you stand in
front of His throne on judgment day. I can already hear all the
demons of hell screeching with glee at the thought of you
giving heck to Jesus, the Lamb of God.

And, at last, we see revealed why /true/ Christians like Pastor
Frank are such vile, despicable, and miserable wretches.
For Jesus is most emphatically *NOT* a love god, despite repeated
Christian claims to the contrary.
Jesus is, instead, exactly what he appears to be: Lord and Master
of the Demons of Hell, the ultimate boogie-man who positively
drools at the mere thought of getting his blood-soaked claws into
some fresh meat.
Fuck off and die, demon ass-licker Frank. It's bad enough that
you're too much of an ignorant git to tell fantasy from
history...but it takes the most depraved kind of sociopath to
worship the incarnation of pure evil -- and an even worse one to
then drape the garments of a ``love'' god over the perversion.
Cheers,

Another contrarian on the lose? How is it you know so much about what
Jesus IS NOT, but so clueless about what Jesus IS? But then you are typical
atheist in sneering at those who die in the name of love, i.e. a mother who
gives her life to save her child, or a soldier giving his life to save his
country, or even Jesus who gave His innocent life to save us abominable and
blaspheming sinners, ...and yes, that includes YOU. See below

Pastor Frank

**Jesus in Mk:2:17: When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are
whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to
call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
**Jesus in Lk:9:56: For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives,
but to save them.
**Jesus Mt:18:11: For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
**Jesus in Jn:12:47: And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge
him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
**Jesus in Mt:11:28-30 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened,
and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am
gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my
yoke is easy and my burden is light."

[Ben Goren]

You can tell all that to Jesus personally when you stand in
front of His throne on judgment day. I can already hear all
the demons of hell screeching with glee at the thought of you
giving heck to Jesus, the Lamb of God.

And, at last, we see revealed why /true/ Christians like Pastor
Frank are such vile, despicable, and miserable wretches. For
Jesus is most emphatically *NOT* a love god, despite repeated
Christian claims to the contrary.
Jesus is, instead, exactly what he appears to be: Lord
and Master of the Demons of Hell, the ultimate boogie-man
who positively drools at the mere thought of getting his
blood-soaked claws into some fresh meat.
Fuck off and die, demon ass-licker Frank. It's bad enough that
you're too much of an ignorant git to tell fantasy from
history...but it takes the most depraved kind of sociopath to
worship the incarnation of pure evil -- and an even worse one
to then drape the garments of a ``love'' god over the
perversion.

Another contrarian on the lose? How is it you know so much
about what Jesus IS NOT, but so clueless about what Jesus IS?

Look in the mirror, asshole. You wouldn't know a love god from a
sun god from a war god of the underworld.

Hint: you *say* that Jesus is a love god. In *actuality* he's a
sun god. You *behave* as though he's an underworld war god -- and
it's the latter that /really/ gets your hard-on for Jesus
throbbing.

But then you are typical atheist in sneering at those who die in
the name of love, i.e. a mother who gives her life to save her
child, or a soldier giving his life to save his country, or even
Jesus who gave His innocent life to save us abominable and
blaspheming sinners, ...and yes, that includes YOU. See below

Dude, even according to Christian mythology Jesus didn't die for
anybody's sins. He went slumming for a while, slept in the day his
trip was over, and made a last stop to say ``nice hangin' wit
y'all'' before heading back uptown.

And, even if I'm to take you at face value, do you have any
fucking clue what you're saying?

No, of course not.

Because what you're saying is that Jesus killed himself to save us
from his own wrath.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and
mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea,
and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

You sure got that one down -- so full of hate that you positively
cackle with glee at the prospect of what Jesus's demons are gonna
do to me at his ``loving'' command.

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I
came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law
against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of
me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not
worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is
not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth
his life for my sake shall find it.

Sure would explain all those good Christian soldiers, marching off
to war, eh?

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should
reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Yup. Evil war god of the underworld. But who're his enemies?

Matthew 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that
gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Do I *really* need to say anything more, other than to tell you to
take that goddamned fucking cross of yours and shove it up your
ass? (Sideways, naturally.)

Now do us all a favor and go run off to Jesus.

Cheers,

b&

[Bill M]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although there
may be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove the
'actual origin of life'. Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion there is a
compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes. They should not base
their lives on church leadership or the
opinions, claims, myths and fables of ancient poorly educated mystics.
They should rely
on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the evidence of
science and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on hopes and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is all about.
Why would you want to rob people of their hopes and dreams? You are such a
party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition does indeed
not exist and is merely your personal and private straw man. Now believe
us already, or if you can't, then believe how holy scripture defines the
word "God". See below

Why do assume 'your' claimed Holy Scripture correctly defines and/or
substantiates 'your' god beliefs?

Get an education. There are thousands of different god beliefs. How do you
know yours is correct?

"Hopes and dreams' as you claim do not prove which, if any, of these god
beliefs is true!

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Bill M

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although there
may be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove the
'actual origin of life'. Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion there is a
compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes. They should not base
their lives on church leadership or the
opinions, claims, myths and fables of ancient poorly educated mystics.
They should rely
on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the evidence of
science and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on hopes and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is all about.
Why would you want to rob people of their hopes and dreams? You are such
a party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition does indeed
not exist and is merely your personal and private straw man. Now believe
us already, or if you can't, then believe how holy scripture defines the
word "God". See below

Why do assume 'your' claimed Holy Scripture correctly defines and/or
substantiates 'your' god beliefs?
Get an education. There are thousands of different god beliefs. How do you
know yours is correct?
"Hopes and dreams' as you claim do not prove which, if any, of these god
beliefs is true!

Haven't got enough smarts to make a decision from among all those 'god
beliefs"? What makes you think god disbelief is the best choice? I bet you
are a pedestrian, for people like you can't make up their minds which car is
the best among all the brands available.
We Christian CAN make up our minds, for we have hopes and dreams and are
not afraid to be wrong occasionally.

[Bill M]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although there
may be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove the
'actual origin of life'. Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion there is a
compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes. They should not base
their lives on church leadership or the
opinions, claims, myths and fables of ancient poorly educated mystics.
They should rely
on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the evidence of
science and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on hopes and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is all
about. Why would you want to rob people of their hopes and dreams? You
are such a party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition does indeed
not exist and is merely your personal and private straw man. Now believe
us already, or if you can't, then believe how holy scripture defines the
word "God". See below

Why do assume 'your' claimed Holy Scripture correctly defines and/or
substantiates 'your' god beliefs?
Get an education. There are thousands of different god beliefs. How do
you know yours is correct?
"Hopes and dreams' as you claim do not prove which, if any, of these god
beliefs is true!

Haven't got enough smarts to make a decision from among all those 'god
beliefs"?

No Frank. I have enough smarts to not base my beliefs and decisions on
myths and fables!

Post by Pastor Frank
What makes you think god disbelief is the best choice?

Because there is NO - NADA objective verifiable evidence for the existence
of ANY gods,
including yours. When I come to a street crossing I do not just stand there
and fear to cross because I can't
see a car coming but there just might be an invisible car coming.

Post by Pastor Frank
I bet you are a pedestrian, for people like you can't make up their minds
which car is the best among all the brands available.

No, I'm a realist and do not make decisons based on myths, fables and false
hopes.

Post by Pastor Frank
We Christian CAN make up our minds, for we have hopes and dreams and
are not afraid to be wrong occasionally.

Congratulations on your honesty. You make your decisions based on "hopes and
dreams" and nothing
more!

[Pastor Frank]

Post by Bill M

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M
There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of life. Although
there may be many opinions
on the origin of life we may never be able to establish or prove the
'actual origin of life'. Life and how we
should live it enjoyably is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion there is a
compelling need to prove
their gods actual existence, commands and wishes. They should not base
their lives on church leadership or the
opinions, claims, myths and fables of ancient poorly educated mystics.
They should rely
on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the evidence of
science and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on hopes and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is all
about. Why would you want to rob people of their hopes and dreams? You
are such a party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition does indeed
not exist and is merely your personal and private straw man. Now
believe us already, or if you can't, then believe how holy scripture
defines the word "God". See below

Why do assume 'your' claimed Holy Scripture correctly defines and/or
substantiates 'your' god beliefs?
Get an education. There are thousands of different god beliefs. How do
you know yours is correct?
"Hopes and dreams' as you claim do not prove which, if any, of these god
beliefs is true!

Haven't got enough smarts to make a decision from among all those 'god
beliefs"?

No Frank. I have enough smarts to not base my beliefs and decisions on
myths and fables!

Any evidence that they are myths and fables?

Post by Bill M

Post by Pastor Frank
What makes you think god disbelief is the best choice?

Because there is NO - NADA objective verifiable evidence for the existence
of ANY gods, including yours.

Thanks for proving my point yet again. You don't read messages, or you
can't remember any. So many answering your inane copy and pastes, explained
to you innumerable times, that our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16)
and there is plenty of evidence for the existence of love, especially Jesus
Christ laying down His innocent life for the benefit of those neither
worthy, nor deserving of His love and care, or for that matter, deserving of
anyone's love and care.

Post by Bill M
When I come to a street crossing I do not just stand there and fear to
cross because I can't
see a car coming but there just might be an invisible car coming.

Post by Pastor Frank
I bet you are a pedestrian, for people like you can't make up their minds
which car is the best among all the brands available.

No, I'm a realist and do not make decisons based on myths, fables and
false hopes.

Tell us then what evidence do you have, that your choices in the market
place are always the best ones?

Post by Bill M

Post by Pastor Frank
We Christian CAN make up our minds, for we have hopes and dreams and
are not afraid to be wrong occasionally.

Congratulations on your honesty. You make your decisions based on "hopes
and dreams" and nothing more!

People without hopes and dreams to realise are dead already, though they
may be unaware of it as yet. Our hopes and dreams are embodied in Jesus
Christ who is alive in our hearts and minds..

[Bill M]

Post by Pastor Frank
Thanks for proving my point yet again. You don't read messages, or you
can't remember any. So many answering your inane copy and pastes,
explained to you innumerable times, that our Christian "God is love" (1
John 4:8,16) and there is plenty of evidence for the existence of love,
especially Jesus Christ laying down His innocent life for the benefit of
those neither worthy, nor deserving of His love and care, or for that
matter, deserving of anyone's love and care.

This is evidence of your gods love??? And why did you cut and past 91 John
4.8,16)?



Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Floods,
Wars, Earth Quakes, Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and
serious body malfunctions? There are 12,000 known diseases that affect and
punish mankind indiscriminately. Why does he permit millions of both young
and old to starve to death or die of miserable diseases? Why punish millions
of INNOCENT CHILDREN in this horrible way?


Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally "innocent children"
to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed
brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and
others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others
pauper poor? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate into a
miserable and devastating old age regardless of their religious affiliation?



God supposedly created the world like it is to punish man for Adam and Eve's
'original sin'. Why does he also punish supposedly innocent animals with
thousands of diseases, birth defects, starvation and to be eaten alive by
other animals?



Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, Wolves, poisonous snakes,
stinging and poisonous insects, poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring
benevolent god create animals (including man) that need to painfully kill
and eat other animals to survive?



World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.

World II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all
ages and religious faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more
millions maimed for life.

The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed the lives of 200,000 men, women and
children of all religious persuasions. Over 100,000 of these were totally
INNOCENT children!

There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th.
and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and
totally innocent children.

The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and
innocent children indiscriminately.



Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions
indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and
malnutrition.

These indiscriminately afflicted the young and old, atheists and those of
all religious persuasions.



Meanwhile MAN, not god, has developed defenses and cures for hundreds of
serious diseases. Man has learned to create shelter, heat and cooling,
purify water, world wide electronic communications, power and transportation
systems including flying through the air.

Man has created a wonderful medical and drug system and improved housing and
food production. The result of MAN'S inventiveness has

DOUBLED the average life span. None this was created by any gods.


Perhaps your loving and caring god is actually a cruel, heartless, mean and
torturing tyrant. If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you think
he will let us enjoy peace and eternal happiness in his Heaven? And why does
he keep all this a secret by preventing communication with our dead parents,
siblings and friends?



There are thousands of religious and god beliefs but NO OJECTIVE VERIFIABLE
EVIDENCE for the actual existence of ANY gods. ALL god beliefs are based on
the 'opinions' of errant men.



If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent god. Nor is he an "Intelligent Designer". The
objective evidence is if there is a god creator, he has NO concern about the
welfare of the creatures on Earth.



The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the opposite;
that man created gods!

[Ben Goren]

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M

There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of
life. Although there may be many opinions on the origin of
life we may never be able to establish or prove the 'actual
origin of life'. Life and how we should live it enjoyably
is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion
there is a compelling need to prove their gods actual
existence, commands and wishes. They should not base their
lives on church leadership or the opinions, claims, myths
and fables of ancient poorly educated mystics. They should
rely on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the
evidence of science and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on
hopes and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is
all about. Why would you want to rob people of their hopes
and dreams? You are such a party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition
does indeed not exist and is merely your personal and
private straw man. Now believe us already, or if you can't,
then believe how holy scripture defines the word "God". See
below

Why do assume 'your' claimed Holy Scripture correctly defines
and/or substantiates 'your' god beliefs?
Get an education. There are thousands of different god
beliefs. How do you know yours is correct?
"Hopes and dreams' as you claim do not prove which, if any,
of these god beliefs is true!

Haven't got enough smarts to make a decision from among all
those 'god beliefs"?

No Frank. I have enough smarts to not base my beliefs and
decisions on myths and fables!

Any evidence that they are myths and fables?

Um...yeah. Like the entire Bible, for starters.

The only place you'll find unicorns, talking snakes and shrubbery,
and magic spells gone wild are in myths and fables. It's only in
myths and fables where you get prophecies that yet-to-be-born
babies will usurp the king. Or that a god impregnates a virgin in
order to fulfill said prophecy. Or where the hero raises the dead
and turns water into wine and walks on water and....

If you can't tell that the Bible is an archetypal example of
nothing but ``myths and fables,'' then you just simply haven't a
fucking clue as to the difference between fact and fantasy.

Post by Pastor Frank

What makes you think god disbelief is the best choice?

Because there is NO - NADA objective verifiable evidence for
the existence of ANY gods, including yours.

Thanks for proving my point yet again. You don't read messages,
or you can't remember any. So many answering your inane copy and
pastes, explained to you innumerable times, that our Christian
"God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and there is plenty of evidence
for the existence of love, especially Jesus Christ laying down
His innocent life for the benefit of those neither worthy, nor
deserving of His love and care, or for that matter, deserving of
anyone's love and care.

This would be the same ``love god'' whose disciples are commanded
to hate their families and their selves? Who instructed his
disciples to kill all heretics? Who's such a raging anti-Semite
that he condemned all Jews to Hell in his most famous
``peacemaking'' speech? Who will personally see to the eternal
torture of everybody who failed to kiss his ass in just the right
way? Who came not to bring peace but a sword -- and who'll bring
one motherfucking sonofabitch huge sword with him when he brings
Armageddon? Who loves slavery more than he loves slaves? Who....

Thanks...but no. I can do just fine without that kind of ``love,''
thankyouverymuch.

Post by Pastor Frank

When I come to a street crossing I do not just stand there and
fear to cross because I can't see a car coming but there just
might be an invisible car coming.

I bet you are a pedestrian, for people like you can't make up
their minds which car is the best among all the brands
available.

No, I'm a realist and do not make decisons based on myths,
fables and false hopes.

Tell us then what evidence do you have, that your choices in the
market place are always the best ones?

Look all around you. Look in front of you, at the screen on which
you're reading these words. All you see was built not from faith
and religion, but from science and technology.

Every single time that faith and reason have collided, every time
without fail, reason has triumphed.

Without science and technology, you'd be dead at best, miserable
at worst. Without faith and religion...you'd be free.

Post by Pastor Frank

We Christian CAN make up our minds, for we have hopes and
dreams and are not afraid to be wrong occasionally.

Congratulations on your honesty. You make your decisions based
on "hopes and dreams" and nothing more!

People without hopes and dreams to realise are dead already,
though they may be unaware of it as yet.

And who says that Christers have a monopoly on hopes and
dreams? Such arrogance is truly despicable, though it's a
near-universal trait amongst Christers.

Post by Pastor Frank
Our hopes and dreams are embodied in Jesus Christ who is alive
in our hearts and minds..

That's nice.

When you realize that a preschooler's hopes and dreams are
embodied in Santa Claus who is alive in her heart and mind, you'll
realize just what an idiot you've been.

Cheers,

b&

[Bill M]

Amen!

Post by Ben Goren

Post by Pastor Frank

Post by Bill M

There is NO COMPELLING need to prove the origin of
life. Although there may be many opinions on the origin of
life we may never be able to establish or prove the 'actual
origin of life'. Life and how we should live it enjoyably
is what is important.
For those that want to believe in god and their religion
there is a compelling need to prove their gods actual
existence, commands and wishes. They should not base their
lives on church leadership or the opinions, claims, myths
and fables of ancient poorly educated mystics. They should
rely on current objective verifiable 'evidence'.
For those who wish to conduct their lives based on the
evidence of science and the real world should educate
themselves on the facts and evidence of real life - not on
hopes and dreams!

"Hopes and dreams" of a better tomorrow is what religion is
all about. Why would you want to rob people of their hopes
and dreams? You are such a party-pooper, Bill!!!!
And we keep telling you, that the god of your definition
does indeed not exist and is merely your personal and
private straw man. Now believe us already, or if you can't,
then believe how holy scripture defines the word "God". See
below

Why do assume 'your' claimed Holy Scripture correctly defines
and/or substantiates 'your' god beliefs?
Get an education. There are thousands of different god
beliefs. How do you know yours is correct?
"Hopes and dreams' as you claim do not prove which, if any,
of these god beliefs is true!

Haven't got enough smarts to make a decision from among all
those 'god beliefs"?

No Frank. I have enough smarts to not base my beliefs and
decisions on myths and fables!

Any evidence that they are myths and fables?

Um...yeah. Like the entire Bible, for starters.
The only place you'll find unicorns, talking snakes and shrubbery,
and magic spells gone wild are in myths and fables. It's only in
myths and fables where you get prophecies that yet-to-be-born
babies will usurp the king. Or that a god impregnates a virgin in
order to fulfill said prophecy. Or where the hero raises the dead
and turns water into wine and walks on water and....
If you can't tell that the Bible is an archetypal example of
nothing but ``myths and fables,'' then you just simply haven't a
fucking clue as to the difference between fact and fantasy.

Post by Pastor Frank

What makes you think god disbelief is the best choice?

Because there is NO - NADA objective verifiable evidence for
the existence of ANY gods, including yours.

Thanks for proving my point yet again. You don't read messages,
or you can't remember any. So many answering your inane copy and
pastes, explained to you innumerable times, that our Christian
"God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and there is plenty of evidence
for the existence of love, especially Jesus Christ laying down
His innocent life for the benefit of those neither worthy, nor
deserving of His love and care, or for that matter, deserving of
anyone's love and care.

This would be the same ``love god'' whose disciples are commanded
to hate their families and their selves? Who instructed his
disciples to kill all heretics? Who's such a raging anti-Semite
that he condemned all Jews to Hell in his most famous
``peacemaking'' speech? Who will personally see to the eternal
torture of everybody who failed to kiss his ass in just the right
way? Who came not to bring peace but a sword -- and who'll bring
one motherfucking sonofabitch huge sword with him when he brings
Armageddon? Who loves slavery more than he loves slaves? Who....
Thanks...but no. I can do just fine without that kind of ``love,''
thankyouverymuch.

Post by Pastor Frank

When I come to a street crossing I do not just stand there and
fear to cross because I can't see a car coming but there just
might be an invisible car coming.

I bet you are a pedestrian, for people like you can't make up
their minds which car is the best among all the brands
available.

No, I'm a realist and do not make decisons based on myths,
fables and false hopes.

Tell us then what evidence do you have, that your choices in the
market place are always the best ones?

Look all around you. Look in front of you, at the screen on which
you're reading these words. All you see was built not from faith
and religion, but from science and technology.
Every single time that faith and reason have collided, every time
without fail, reason has triumphed.
Without science and technology, you'd be dead at best, miserable
at worst. Without faith and religion...you'd be free.

Post by Pastor Frank

We Christian CAN make up our minds, for we have hopes and
dreams and are not afraid to be wrong occasionally.

Congratulations on your honesty. You make your decisions based
on "hopes and dreams" and nothing more!

People without hopes and dreams to realise are dead already,
though they may be unaware of it as yet.

And who says that Christers have a monopoly on hopes and
dreams? Such arrogance is truly despicable, though it's a
near-universal trait amongst Christers.

Post by Pastor Frank
Our hopes and dreams are embodied in Jesus Christ who is alive
in our hearts and minds..

That's nice.
When you realize that a preschooler's hopes and dreams are
embodied in Santa Claus who is alive in her heart and mind, you'll
realize just what an idiot you've been.
Cheers,
b&
--
EAC Memographer
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
``All but God can prove this sentence true.''
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