Origen of Universe

Post by Bill
One of the most common claims for the existence of gods is the canard that
the Universe couldn't just happen. It had to have a creator.
When you apply the same reasoning to the creator the answer is "he/it always
was and always will be"! It is just as logical to believe the Universe
always was and always will be!
There is objective, verifiable, and reproducible evidence that the Universe
or its energy has existed for some fourteen BILLION years or longer. Perhaps
for ever.
There is NO objective, verifiable, and reproducible evidence that any of the
many gods, claimed by man, actually exist. All we have is subjective non
verifiable evidence produced by man himself.
The Christians claim that after we die we will live on in heaven or hell for
eternity.
My dictionary defines eternity as "Time without beginning or end; infinite
time."
Then it is equally logical to assume that the Universe always was and had no
beginning or end and no need for a creator.
A huge basket of illogic is the Jesus myth which is the very foundation of
the Christian religion.
The story in brief is that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary in a manger in
the middle of winter. He then lived his early life as a child and then as a
carpenter in his adulthood until he took on the role of god and messiah. He
then preached gods doctrines to only a very small portion of the earths
population and left behind NO original physical evidence of his existence or
doctrines for future generations of humans to follow.
To absolve peoples sins, he was flogged and died a painful and humiliating
death on the cross with two convicted criminals. He was then buried and
after three days, rose from the dead and ascended back into his heaven.
Why would god, the creator of the Universe and everything in it, need to be
born from some earthly women in a cold manger in the middle of the winter.
He certainly should have been capable of just appearing on earth to deliver
his message to the whole world instead of just a VERY small part of the
world.
Why did he waste most of his time on earth as a playful child and lowly
carpenter instead of spending this time delivering his message to the WHOLE
world?
Why did he not put his message directly in indestructible media for the
whole world to read and/or hear FOR GENERATIONS to come? Why did he deliver
his message to errant self interested humans to hand copy to media of
limited life which has long since rotted and disappeared?
There are NO ORIGINAL copies of the Bibles. They are all copies of copies
etc. of highly questionable veracity. They were written and hand copied over
1500 years before the invention of the printing press by OVER 40 humans of
unknown and questionable veracity. They appear to be largely abstruse, and
frequently contradictory, myths and legends - not the word of any god.
Why would this all powerful god, creator of the Universe and everything in
it, need to die a humiliating and painful death by being flogged and nailed
to a cross along with two convicted criminals to absolve sins he created in
the first place. Why not just announce from his heaven that he was absolving
these sins and why. What was the need for all the pain, blood and gore?
The real conundrum is why do people base their very lives and futures on
mythical gods instead of objective evidence? Faith! Would one walk out in
front of an on coming speeding automobile based on the faith that the driver
would stop before hitting them?

Hi Bill,

There are some very good points there. You'd think if God had wanted to
pass on his message he would have waited until humans had invented the
radio/TV/Internet and then God/Jesus could have broadcast their message to a
much wider, global audience rather than just preaching to a bunch of
gullible sand niggers :-)

Regards,

Nog

2005-07-25 01:30:14 UTC

¶ If there was a god he could put a god bug in every television that would
automatically turn it on at 7am every morning and spew forth his rhetoric 5
minutes a day. IF there was a GOD, HE COULD do this. Could he not? He or she
or it, whatever. The great computer in the sky?
Incidently, so far, the universe has no edge and no center that can be
detected. The universe that always was and always will be is a good
description for now. I'm satisified.Our sun and this earth will be long gone
before the universe ends if it does.§

Read The Bible

2005-07-25 02:50:14 UTC

Post by Bill
One of the most common claims for the existence of gods is the canard that
the Universe couldn't just happen. It had to have a creator.

Post by Bill
When you apply the same reasoning to the creator the answer is "he/it always
was and always will be"! It is just as logical to believe the Universe
always was and always will be!

By him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in
earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or
principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and
the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou
remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a
vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou
art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

Post by Bill
There is objective, verifiable, and reproducible evidence that the Universe
or its energy has existed for some fourteen BILLION years or longer. Perhaps
for ever.
There is NO objective, verifiable, and reproducible evidence that any of the
many gods, claimed by man, actually exist.

There is none other God but one. For though there be that are called
gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords
many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all
things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all
things, and we by him. Howbeit there is not in every man that
knowledge.

Post by Bill
All we have is subjective non
verifiable evidence produced by man himself.
The Christians claim that after we die we will live on in heaven or hell for
eternity.
My dictionary defines eternity as "Time without beginning or end; infinite
time."
Then it is equally logical to assume that the Universe always was and had no
beginning or end and no need for a creator.
A huge basket of illogic

Christ sent me to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the
cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the
cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved
it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of
the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this
world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after
that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased
God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the
Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach
Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks
foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks,
Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness
of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they
are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are
spiritually discerned.

Post by Bill
is the Jesus myth

We have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto
you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were
eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour
and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent
glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this
voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the
holy mount.

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have
seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have
handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have
seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which
was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) That which we have
seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship
with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son
Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be
full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare
unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we
say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and
do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light,
we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his
Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we
deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins,
he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from
all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a
liar, and his word is not in us.

Post by Bill
which is the very foundation of
the Christian religion.

I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye
have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye
keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in
vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received,
how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that
he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the
scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After
that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the
greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of
all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Post by Bill
The story in brief is that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary in a manger in
the middle of winter. He then lived his early life as a child and then as a
carpenter in his adulthood until he took on the role of god and messiah. He
then preached gods doctrines to only a very small portion of the earths
population and left behind NO original physical evidence of his existence or
doctrines for future generations of humans to follow.
To absolve peoples sins, he was flogged and died a painful and humiliating
death on the cross with two convicted criminals. He was then buried and
after three days, rose from the dead and ascended back into his heaven.
Why would god, the creator of the Universe and everything in it, need to be
born from some earthly women in a cold manger in the middle of the winter.
He certainly should have been capable of just appearing on earth to deliver
his message to the whole world instead of just a VERY small part of the
world.
Why did he waste most of his time on earth as a playful child and lowly
carpenter

We have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of
our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet
without sin.

Post by Bill
instead of spending this time delivering his message to the
WHOLE
world?

Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in
heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing
them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to
every creature.

The gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every
creature which is under heaven.

This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a
witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Post by Bill
Why did he not put his message directly in indestructible media for the
whole world to read and/or hear FOR GENERATIONS to come?

The holy scriptures are able to make thee wise unto salvation through
faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration
of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect,
throughly furnished unto all good works.

All flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass.
The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word
of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel
is preached unto you.

Post by Bill
Why did he
deliver
his message to errant self interested humans to hand copy to media of
limited life which has long since rotted and disappeared?
There are NO ORIGINAL copies of the Bibles. They are all copies of copies
etc. of highly questionable veracity. They were written and hand copied over
1500 years before the invention of the printing press by OVER 40 humans of
unknown and questionable veracity. They appear to be largely abstruse, and
frequently contradictory, myths and legends - not the word of any god.
Why would this all powerful god, creator of the Universe and everything in
it, need to die a humiliating and painful death by being flogged and nailed
to a cross along with two convicted criminals to absolve sins he created in
the first place.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot
be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is
tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when
lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is
finished, bringeth forth death.

God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that
whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting
life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but
that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is
not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because
he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And
this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men
loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For
every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the
light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Post by Bill
Why not just announce from his heaven that he was
absolving
these sins and why. What was the need for all the pain, blood and gore?

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon
the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that
maketh an atonement for the soul.

This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the
remission of sins.

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of
the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise
it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Whereupon
neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses
had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he
took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool,
and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Saying,
This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the
vessels of the ministry. And almost all things are by the law purged
with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. It was
therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should
be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better
sacrifices than these. For Christ is not entered into the holy places
made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven
itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he
should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy
place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have
suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of
the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the
judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto
them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto
salvation.

Post by Bill
The real conundrum is why do people base their very lives and futures on
mythical gods instead of objective evidence? Faith!

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not
seen

Post by Bill
Would one walk out in
front of an on coming speeding automobile based on the faith that the driver
would stop before hitting them?

The devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a
pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God,
cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge
concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at
any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is
written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Post by Nog
¶ If there was a god he could put a god bug in every television that would
automatically turn it on at 7am every morning and spew forth his rhetoric 5
minutes a day. IF there was a GOD, HE COULD do this. Could he not? He or she
or it, whatever. The great computer in the sky?
Incidently, so far, the universe has no edge and no center that can be
detected. The universe that always was and always will be is a good
description for now. I'm satisified.Our sun and this earth will be long gone
before the universe ends if it does.

Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for
the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old
like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner:
but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be
abolished.

SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim

2005-07-25 11:31:25 UTC

quote some bible verses, that's it.

when you can't come up with FACTS to support the existence of your god,
quote some horseshit bible verses.

Why didn't you quote the one about don't plow with an ox and a donkey
together.
we need to hear all of the "wisdom" from the "supreme being".

Bill

2005-07-25 16:33:27 UTC

Post by Bill
One of the most common claims for the existence of gods is the canard that
the Universe couldn't just happen. It had to have a creator.

That which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed
it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the
world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

============================================================

Now this is real CONVINCING EVIDENCE! Evidence of you confused mentality.

============================================================

Post by Bill
When you apply the same reasoning to the creator the answer is "he/it always
was and always will be"! It is just as logical to believe the Universe
always was and always will be!

Post by Bill
All we have is subjective non
verifiable evidence produced by man himself.
The Christians claim that after we die we will live on in heaven or hell for
eternity.
My dictionary defines eternity as "Time without beginning or end; infinite
time."
Then it is equally logical to assume that the Universe always was and
had
no
beginning or end and no need for a creator.
A huge basket of illogic

Post by Bill
is the Jesus myth

Post by Bill
which is the very foundation of
the Christian religion.

Post by Bill
The story in brief is that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary in a manger in
the middle of winter. He then lived his early life as a child and then
as
a
carpenter in his adulthood until he took on the role of god and messiah. He
then preached gods doctrines to only a very small portion of the earths
population and left behind NO original physical evidence of his
existence
or
doctrines for future generations of humans to follow.
To absolve peoples sins, he was flogged and died a painful and humiliating
death on the cross with two convicted criminals. He was then buried and
after three days, rose from the dead and ascended back into his heaven.
Why would god, the creator of the Universe and everything in it, need to be
born from some earthly women in a cold manger in the middle of the winter.
He certainly should have been capable of just appearing on earth to deliver
his message to the whole world instead of just a VERY small part of the
world.
Why did he waste most of his time on earth as a playful child and lowly
carpenter

We have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of
our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet
without sin.

Post by Bill
instead of spending this time delivering his message to the
WHOLE
world?

Post by Bill
Why did he not put his message directly in indestructible media for the
whole world to read and/or hear FOR GENERATIONS to come?

Post by Bill
Why not just announce from his heaven that he was
absolving
these sins and why. What was the need for all the pain, blood and gore?

Post by Bill
The real conundrum is why do people base their very lives and futures on
mythical gods instead of objective evidence? Faith!

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not
seen

Post by Bill
Would one walk out in
front of an on coming speeding automobile based on the faith that the driver
would stop before hitting them?

Bill

2005-07-25 16:31:07 UTC

A very good point. If there was an omnipotent god he certainly could and
should do this.
There are thousands of god beliefs. If there was a real god he could declare
his reality
and authenticity and declare all the others as fakes.

No god clarifies this issue because god doesn ot exist. Gods are the
creations of man.

Post by Nog
Incidently, so far, the universe has no edge and no center that can be
detected. The universe that always was and always will be is a good
description for now. I'm satisified.Our sun and this earth will be long
gone before the universe ends if it does.§

Greywolf

2005-07-25 20:42:17 UTC

Greywolf

Carl Rooker

2005-07-26 02:34:00 UTC

Post by Bill
One of the most common claims for the existence of gods is the canard that
the Universe couldn't just happen. It had to have a creator.

But, we are not claiming many gods, but One God, and that He is the creator
of the universe.

Post by Bill
When you apply the same reasoning to the creator the answer is "he/it always
was and always will be"! It is just as logical to believe the Universe
always was and always will be!

This is where you show skewed logic, or lack any true logic. The Creator of
something is ALWAYS something more than the created.
example; A statue can be very life like, but not alive like it's creator.
By your logic, (lack there of that is), then it's creator can not be alive
either.

When God created the universe, He created a "Space, Time, Coniumuim". To
put it simply, He created matter, space, and time. As the Creator of Time,
He is not subject to time, therefore He has no need of a beginning.

Post by Bill
There is objective, verifiable, and reproducible evidence that the Universe
or its energy has existed for some fourteen BILLION years or longer. Perhaps
for ever.

Actually the length of time the universe has been around will be debated for
a long, long time. But the main point is correct, the universe had a
definate beginning.

Post by Bill
There is NO objective, verifiable, and reproducible evidence that any of the
many gods, claimed by man, actually exist. All we have is subjective non
verifiable evidence produced by man himself.

There is just no evidence that a closed mind like your own will own up to.

Post by Bill
The Christians claim that after we die we will live on in heaven or hell for
eternity.
My dictionary defines eternity as "Time without beginning or end; infinite
time."
Then it is equally logical to assume that the Universe always was and had no
beginning or end and no need for a creator.

Except that you already demonstrated the the universe had a beginning. It
will have an end too. Just because something greater than the universe has
no beginning or end does not mean that it is logical to think the universe
has none as well. There is no logic in your statements.

Post by Bill
A huge basket of illogic is the Jesus myth which is the very foundation of
the Christian religion.

The huge basket of illogic is only in your own limited mind. You are
talking (actually writing) in circles.

First off, He did not preach "gods doctrines", He preached God's Doctrines.

And that very insignificant Life has had far more impact on mankind than you
and your likes ever will.

Post by Bill
To absolve peoples sins, he was flogged and died a painful and humiliating
death on the cross with two convicted criminals. He was then buried and
after three days, rose from the dead and ascended back into his heaven.

Another misrepresentation. His act did not absolve sins. The whole point
of what He went through was that you and I deserved it, but He took it for
us.

Post by Bill
Why would god, the creator of the Universe and everything in it, need to be
born from some earthly women in a cold manger in the middle of the winter.
He certainly should have been capable of just appearing on earth to deliver
his message to the whole world instead of just a VERY small part of the
world.

Because it is not just a message He dilivered. It was God Himself, become
man. He became man in every aspect.

Post by Bill
Why did he waste most of his time on earth as a playful child and lowly
carpenter instead of spending this time delivering his message to the WHOLE
world?

Because He is just a little bit smarter than you are. And, like I said, He
has effected far more than you ever will.

Post by Bill
Why did he not put his message directly in indestructible media for the
whole world to read and/or hear FOR GENERATIONS to come? Why did he deliver
his message to errant self interested humans to hand copy to media of
limited life which has long since rotted and disappeared?

Because it worked.

Post by Bill
There are NO ORIGINAL copies of the Bibles. They are all copies of copies
etc. of highly questionable veracity. They were written and hand copied over
1500 years before the invention of the printing press by OVER 40 humans of
unknown and questionable veracity. They appear to be largely abstruse, and
frequently contradictory, myths and legends - not the word of any god.

Such a pack of lies you tell.

1. No original documents true. However we have far more documentation of
the texts than for any ancient document.
2. We have texts and manuscripts that date back to 100 ad for the NT, and
before Christ for the OT. So many that no serious scholar doubts their
varacity. Even when they doubt their Inspiritation.
3. If you would read any modern textbooks the way you read the Bible, then
nothing could be learned. Fortunately, most people are smarter than that.
The contradictions are in your own head, not the Bible.

Post by Bill
Why would this all powerful god, creator of the Universe and everything in
it, need to die a humiliating and painful death by being flogged and nailed
to a cross along with two convicted criminals to absolve sins he created in
the first place. Why not just announce from his heaven that he was absolving
these sins and why. What was the need for all the pain, blood and gore?

He did not creat the sins. Another lie of yours.

al conundrum is why do people base their very lives and futures on

Post by Bill
mythical gods instead of objective evidence? Faith! Would one walk out in
front of an on coming speeding automobile based on the faith that the driver
would stop before hitting them?

No one believes as you so clearly misrepresent. It is all a fantasy in your
own mind.

God Bless
Carl

SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim

2005-07-26 11:09:00 UTC

what created the "creator"?

christians never answer the question.

if "god" can "always be", then the planet and the stars can "always be".

Bill

2005-07-26 23:32:08 UTC

Post by Bill
One of the most common claims for the existence of gods is the canard that
the Universe couldn't just happen. It had to have a creator.

But, we are not claiming many gods, but One God, and that He is the creator
of the universe.

How is this evidence that ANY god created the Universe???

This is not even skewed logic, but pure hyperbole.

Post by Bill
When you apply the same reasoning to the creator the answer is "he/it

always

Post by Bill
was and always will be"! It is just as logical to believe the Universe
always was and always will be!

You are making statements that I did not make to show evidence of my
illogic. You are
not a very honest Christian.

Post by Carl Rooker
When God created the universe, He created a "Space, Time, Coniumuim". To
put it simply, He created matter, space, and time. As the Creator of Time,
He is not subject to time, therefore He has no need of a beginning.

Your inventing cenarios to fit your illogical beliefs. This is NOT evidence
of anything other
than your unsupported OPINION.

And your OBJECTIVE VARIFIABLE REPRODUCIBLE EVIDENCE for these silly claims
is???

Post by Bill
There is objective, verifiable, and reproducible evidence that the

Universe

Post by Bill
or its energy has existed for some fourteen BILLION years or longer.

Perhaps

Post by Bill
for ever.

Actually the length of time the universe has been around will be debated for
a long, long time. But the main point is correct, the universe had a
definate beginning.

In your OPINION. And whether or not it has existed for 14 BILLION years or
infinity is NO
evidence for or against the existence of your god.

Post by Bill
There is NO objective, verifiable, and reproducible evidence that any of

the

Post by Bill
many gods, claimed by man, actually exist. All we have is subjective non
verifiable evidence produced by man himself.

There is just no evidence that a closed mind like your own will own up to.

This is just a cop out. Where is your OBJECTIVE VARIFIABLE REPRODUCIBLE
evidence???

If you feel that I, and the rest of the readers of this newsgroup, have such
closed
minds that you don't bother to submit your evidence, why are you answering
this post?

Post by Bill
The Christians claim that after we die we will live on in heaven or hell

for

Post by Bill
eternity.
My dictionary defines eternity as "Time without beginning or end; infinite
time."
Then it is equally logical to assume that the Universe always was and had

Post by Bill
beginning or end and no need for a creator.

I demonstrated no such thing. Your the one with the twisted and distorted
logic
trying to prove the existence of your unproven god?

We're still waiting for your OBJECTIVE VARIFIABLE REPRODUCIBLE evidence
for the existence of your god. When do you think you can do this?

Post by Bill
A huge basket of illogic is the Jesus myth which is the very foundation of
the Christian religion.

The huge basket of illogic is only in your own limited mind. You are
talking (actually writing) in circles.

Quite the contrary, you are the one that is writing in circles because you
can't offer any
facts to support your claims and beliefs. All you do is engage in childish
name calling,
dishonesty and hyperbole.

And you think you are a GOOD Christian?!

Post by Bill
The story in brief is that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary in a manger

Post by Bill
the middle of winter. He then lived his early life as a child and then as

Post by Bill
carpenter in his adulthood until he took on the role of god and messiah.

Post by Bill
then preached gods doctrines to only a very small portion of the earths
population and left behind NO original physical evidence of his existence

Post by Bill
doctrines for future generations of humans to follow.

First off, He did not preach "gods doctrines", He preached God's Doctrines.
And that very insignificant Life has had far more impact on mankind than you
and your likes ever will.

Wow - and this is EVIDENCE?!

Another misrepresentation. His act did not absolve sins. The whole point
of what He went through was that you and I deserved it, but He took it for
us.

Unbelievable! Your god creator of the Universe took all this punishment so
we wouldn't
have to be punished by this same god!??? Your god must be an illogical
idiot.

Post by Bill
Why would god, the creator of the Universe and everything in it, need to

Post by Bill
born from some earthly women in a cold manger in the middle of the winter.
He certainly should have been capable of just appearing on earth to

deliver

Post by Bill
his message to the whole world instead of just a VERY small part of the
world.

Because it is not just a message He dilivered. It was God Himself, become
man. He became man in every aspect.

Couldn't answer my question so you dodged around it Carl.

Your not a very honest Christian are you?

Post by Bill
Why did he waste most of his time on earth as a playful child and lowly
carpenter instead of spending this time delivering his message to the

WHOLE

Post by Bill
world?

Because He is just a little bit smarter than you are. And, like I said, He
has effected far more than you ever will.

You dodged my question because you can't answer it. Why don't you be honest
like a good Christian is supposed to be?

How can this non existent ghost in the sky be smarter than anyone?

Post by Bill
Why did he not put his message directly in indestructible media for the
whole world to read and/or hear FOR GENERATIONS to come? Why did he

deliver

Post by Bill
his message to errant self interested humans to hand copy to media of
limited life which has long since rotted and disappeared?

Because it worked.

Carl stop and think for just a minute. If it worked, why are there so many
people on
these news groups debating the validity of your god, Christian religions and
the Bibles?

Post by Bill
There are NO ORIGINAL copies of the Bibles. They are all copies of copies
etc. of highly questionable veracity. They were written and hand copied

over

Post by Bill
1500 years before the invention of the printing press by OVER 40 humans of
unknown and questionable veracity. They appear to be largely abstruse, and
frequently contradictory, myths and legends - not the word of any god.

Such a pack of lies you tell.

And what is your EVIDENCE that this silly accusation is true?
If you can't back up your accusations with proof, it is you that are the
liar - can't you see that Carl???

Post by Carl Rooker
1. No original documents true. However we have far more documentation of
the texts than for any ancient document.

So? How is this evidence for their veracity???

Post by Carl Rooker
2. We have texts and manuscripts that date back to 100 ad for the NT, and
before Christ for the OT. So many that no serious scholar doubts their
varacity. Even when they doubt their Inspiritation.

The books of the Bible are loaded with inconsistencies and impossible myths.
Only religious fanatics consider them to be even remotely historical fact.

Post by Carl Rooker
3. If you would read any modern textbooks the way you read the Bible, then
nothing could be learned. Fortunately, most people are smarter than that.
The contradictions are in your own head, not the Bible.

The Bibles do not support your claim. what OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE do you have to
support this dishonest claim?